Did secret service accidentally fire fatal shot to JFK's head

[Detritus]

I'm kind of surprised that Oswald actually missed with one shot.

best theory i've heard on this was that the miss was him taking his first shot with that POS scope the rifle came with, discovering that it was NOT zeroed (or "no longer zeroed" IF he ever did zero it) to the rifle, And thereafter switching to the irons for shots two and three.

 

[Burt Blade]

First, obtain the extra wide roll of foil.
Tear off a strip as long as it is wide.
Fold it into a triangle, shiny side out. (To better reflect the rays)
Wrap your head with it, tying it in the back.
Smooth it down to a tight-fitting skull cap.
Conceal it with a baseball cap so the Masters do not know you have evaded their Contol Rays.

Now all will be clear thoughts!

 

[stolivar]

not once

Not once did the reinact the second and fatal shot. from what I seen it the films he looked to be hit from the front on the fatal blow. Most of the back of his head was destroyed. don't look like a shot from the back to me. His head slams backwards from the force not to the front. Myth busters and them only prove the first wounding shot not the last. You never hear from any of the theories about the last shot.


steve

 

[halfacop]

EXACTLY!

 

[SOT]

You never hear from any of the theories about the last shot.

Are you crazy? Detailed analysis of the head shot has been provided by the Warren Commission, House Select Committee on Assassinations (9 person team of the world's best pathologists led by Dr. Michael Baden), Failure Analysis, Inc., etc, etc. The variety of info regarding the head shot is nicely summarized in the book "Case Closed." There certainly is a great deal of information about the head shot.

 

[jerkface11]

Isn't the real question "Why did Ruby shoot Oswald"?

 

[Crosshair]

Another theory (From "Case Closed")about the first shot Detritus is that Oswald shot through the trees and the bullet hit a branch and was either deflected or desintigrated. The trees where never inspected to see if a bullet hit a branch since nobody cared about the first shot at the time

IMHO Oswald would have not have used the scope at the "close" range that the first shot was taken. For all we knew he hated the sope and ever zeroed it. Just throwing out ideas.

I have a scope on my 22-250 that I hate and have not shot that gun in a long time since there are no open sights. I need to get around to mounting the used scope I bought onto it so I can use it again.

 

[lesjones]

<i>"I just can't get over the head snapping back and to the left when he was shot. I know they say it was a "nerve action" but I don't buy that. I've never shot anything in all my years of hunting and had it snap back at me when I pulled the trigger."</i>

Scroll down this page and you'll find some theories about how that could happen. There are videos of melons and human skills pitching backward (toward the gun) when shot.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dealey.htm

That page also has a video of a goat jerking violently after being shot. The Warren Commission was shown that very video and caused them to conclude that JFK's head movement could have been neurological. (His earlier movement on the first shot - shoulders going up and hands going towards throat - is apparently a common reaction to a thoracic shooting.)

 

[DKSuddeth]

I read this book, although an interesting read, it's difficult to place a belief in the theory this guy presents when JFK's brain is missing. But it's always lots of fun to speculate on the whos, hows, and whys.

 

[Cosmoline]

I've never shot anything in all my years of hunting and had it snap back at me when I pulled the trigger.

I dare say you haven't made any cranium hits on advanced hominids or primates, either. Frame 313 of the Zapruder film clearly shows the blow out heading out in the direction of the exit wound. If the shot had come from the side, the blowout would have gone towards Jackie, along with the bullet. The "back and to the left" movement afterwards is a spasm. If you go forward a few more frames you see his body go limp. Now you can't tell me you've never seen game spasm after a CNS hit? If you looked at their actions with high speed film, it might well look like the animal was jerking towards your direction of shot.

Isn't the real question "Why did Ruby shoot Oswald"?

That is a much more interesting question, as are the questions of how Oswald was allowed to operate as freely as he did given his background. But 90% of the energy has gone into trying to attack the one point we're certain on--that the shots were taken by a single rifleman from the book depository.

 

[roo_ster]

I moved to Dallas in 1999. Later went to the book depository with family to see it all. As I stood there, in the window, I thought, "What's all the fuss about?" Meaning, the shots were entirely do-able.

Frankly, I never really cared "who shot JFK?" I didn't think much of him as a President or a man. It was a tragedy for his family, alright, but all the wailing & moaning by JFK-o-philes is nauseating. The obsessive conspiracy-mongering is absolutely grotesque.

Come to Dallas & see for yourself. After you see the reality of the ground, we can go for a couple of brews & one fine chicken-fried steak at the YO Ranch Restaurant.

 

[kfranz]

Another theory (From "Case Closed")about the first shot Detritus is that Oswald shot through the trees and the bullet hit a branch and was either deflected or desintigrated. The trees where never inspected to see if a bullet hit a branch since nobody cared about the first shot at the time

The fact that you don't know where the first bullet hit just kills your credibility. The first shot hit the curb in front of the limo, "shrapneling" a bystander. They DID care about ALL the shots, as long as they fit the 1 gunman theory...

Seriously, you lone gunman guys, go read some Weisburg. Look at the evidence, then ask yourself, "how's that fit?"

 

[dfaugh]

Assumptions

The problem with almost any of the theories is that there are always assumptions being made.

I watched the one show that was on very recently, that very carefully and scientifically tried to reconstruct everything, from the positions they were in, to sound sychronization to the tape, trajectories, and even testing with carefully placed ballistic gelation blocks. And it was very convincing in support of the "lone gunman theory". Until you take a step back and realize that, if any of the timing, or distances or other variables were a bit off, it may or may not hold water. And they didn't answer a couple of the puzzling questions that remain to this day. Basically what it proved was that it was POSSIBLE (maybe even probable) that it happened that way.

Don't think there will ever be a truly definitive answer.

(And, yes, I researched this alot, some years ago, as part of a class exercise, we concluded there was another shooter. Also, even assuming LHO did all the shooting, there were almost certainly others involved, and possibly present (maybe as "backup"). The fact that someone wanted Oswald silenced lends alot of credibility to these theories.)

 

[lazarus]

Posner has his share of critics, as well.

http://home.comcast.net/~dperry1943/closed.html


There is also a quite interesting controversy about James Files, confessed assassin of JFK. More on that here:

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/confession2.htm

One aspect of this I find interesting was the report I read about the limo being returned to Dearborn for refurbishing immediately after the shooting in Dallas. The Chief of the department in charge of glass and windshields (as well as others) has stated that there was a bullet hole found low in the windscreen. The exit hole was inside the vehicle with the entry hole obviously in front of the limo. I haven't seen this discussed, but take it for what it's worth.........

 

[usp9]

Quote:
I read this book, although an interesting read, it's difficult to place a belief in the theory this guy presents when JFK's brain is missing. But it's always lots of fun to speculate on the whos, hows, and whys.

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

JFK's brain is not missing as some conspiracy nuts say. It is with all the other evidence in storage at the Archives in D.C.

 

[ctdonath]

Really? I didn't know

And that is why these conspiracy theories perpetuate: enough of the audience doesn't know enough of the details to make an informed evaluation, and the the conspiracy theory concoctors abuse this ignorance. Those who understand well enough are satisfied with a well-informed opinion and move on; those who don't get all wrapped up in the "conspiracy" and perpetuate the half-truths and outright lies ... unfortunately, the former tends to move on to better things while the latter perpetuates itself, so the conspiracy theries never die, irritating the heck out of the rest of us who want to move on.

 

[ctdonath]

some very screwy thing in the early '60s (how does a defector get issued a hassle free visa back in the USA and why does the USSR let his wife go?)

Right now, the former head Afghani propagandist/apologist for the Taliban is (or has been accepted to) attending classes at Yale.

Very screwy things happen, especially in government bureacracies.

 

[ctdonath]

My money is still on the mob

Best theory I've heard re: JFK & the mob is that when JFK was shot, the mob panicked that they might be implicated and thus tried to cover up anything that might wrongly lead the assasination trail to them. Kinda hard for the mob to convince the police they did not kill someone...

 

[ctdonath]

For those who won't be visiting the Book Depository in person, may I suggest you peruse the Internet for the program "JFK Reloaded". This controversial "game" - a 3D first-person "shooter" - painstakingly reconstructs the scenario, right down to bullet trajectory and interaction with internal organs. Letting the user experience and run the incident from a first-person perspective makes it abundantly clear in seconds that no conspiracy is needed, and the "lone gunman" scenario is entirely, even uniquely, plausible. Attempts can be reviewed & replayed in slow & reverse motion from multiple angles, including bullet's-eye view and from the grassy knoll. Bullet path is also computed and displayed, taking into account behaviors of various substances struck.

Not only does "JFK Reloaded" show that the horrible act could easily be done from the Depository window - especially as the receeding limo is hardly moving relative to targeting - it also shows that making the shot from the grassy knoll would be significanly more difficult precisely because the limo was travelling rapidly & laterally at close range.

 

[Ala Dan]

I too really never cared much for JFK, as during his Presidency (with the aid
of his sorry no good brother) ; the South was in deep turmoil. Not everybody
(including myself) was caught up in all that mess. I was in my teens, in HS
and getting ready to join the armed forces of the United States; which I
did on 09 November 1965. From that point on, my plate was full. But, what
I would like too know is why Mr. Ruby killed Oswald? And, wasn't Ruby some
sort'a big time crime figure himself.

 

[JohnKSa]

why Mr. Ruby killed Oswald? And, wasn't Ruby some sort'a big time crime figure himself.

'Cause he was an even bigger fruitcake than Oswald. He did have some ties to organized crime, but he was FAR from a big time anything. Just someone who was stupid enough to think he was doing everyone a favor by killing Oswald.

Oswald's brother is convinced that Oswald did it and did it by himself.

 

[Crosshair]

I'm sorry you misunderstand me kfranz. Yes I know about the bullet hitting the curb. I was just explaining another theory about WHY/HOW Oswald missed the first shot. We know that the bullet or most of the bullet (if the bullet partially broke up in flight from hitting a branch) hit the curb. Nobody knows for sure why/how Oswald missed the first shot. I was just pointing another theory about the miss itself. Where it landed was not important in my post above.

The fact remains that the trees where never looked at to see if Oswald may have fired through the trees, thus explaining why the first shot missed. Since the first shot did no real damage, it is just a footnote in the story of the assasination.

 

[LAK]

The shot that struck John Kennedy in the head struck him in the upper right forehead.

This is evident from the autopsy photos; one earlier photo in black and white photo exhibits what appears to be a small entrance wound near the hairline, top right forehead. However in a later color photo, this whole area has been excised with something sharp - leaving a gaping deep and wide "v" opening back along the scalp.

Not only that, doctors and other eye witnesses have testified on film (I have about a half dozen on one disk) that there was a large exit wound at the back of the head. In the Zapruder film at the bullet impact pieces of his scalp and brain matter exploded from the back of his head and landed on the trunk of the limo and beyond. If you watch the Zapruder film in entirety, Jackie can be seen picking pieces up and attempting to place them back on his head. Not, as often popularly described as "reaching out to the Secret Service agent" that jumped onto the back of the car.

Something else that can be clearly seen in a close examination of the Zapruder film is Kennedy's Secret Service limo driver; who spent most of the time after the throat shot, and while other shots were ongoing, looking back at Kennedy - as was the second agent in the front of the limo. That is until the fatal headshot sent Kennedy's brains flying. The driver then faced forward, hunkered down on the wheel, and stepped on the gas. He did a great job of keeping Kennedy in the kill zone until the job was done.

The agents that would normally stand on the back of the limo were pulled - I have this on fil too. One of the throwing up his hands and shaking his head as he walks away.

Another fairytale official story and a concerted coverup.

---------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Eleven Mike]

Simply put, the facts do not support the "lone president" theory. The success of the cover-up is evident by the fact that so few "conspiracy theorists" are aware that, while JFK was elected to the office, his identical twin sister Kelly was mistakenly sworn in. The hit was, of course, an attempt to eliminate the embarrassing "second president" who was concealed behind the grassy knoll. The "magic bullets" supplied by Abraham Zapruder were purportedly designed to strike KFK while avoiding JFK, but they seem to have worked in precisely the opposite manner, using their "controlled trajectory" to actually target the President, rather than change course to maneuver around him. Meanwhile, KFK's SS detail returned fire in various directions, only later to discover that their ammunition had been replaced with blanks. This is the only suitable explanation for the smoke near the knoll. The "malfunction" of the magic bullets is too easily explained by the fact that Abe Zapruder was Jewish and therefore an Evil Zionist, which obscures the more disturbing fact that they were produced by Haliburton/Kellog/Brown&Root. Majority share-holder Lady Bird Johnson had obviously sabotaged the project for her husband's sake. Ruby, as can be easily shown, was Kelly Kennedy's lover, and killed Oswald in retaliation, although Oswald and Ruby have subsequently been seen together in a Nevada sheep-camp and were reportedly sharing a tent.

 

[roo_ster]

Razor vs Kitchen Sink

While most folks are familiar with Occam's Razor...

"entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."

...when multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.

Not as many are famiiar "Ockham's Kitchen Sink"...
"When multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the most assumptions and postulate the most hypothetical entities. Make especial care to include aliens, mobsters, and conspiratorial elements."

Not coincidentally, old Bill Ockham stored his tin foil under his kitchen sink...