Dirty powder.

[mjsdwash]

Hello everyone, you helped me with my finicky springfield, and im thankful for that, but now im curious if anyone else has had this problem. Im currently using a springfield gi, tapered lip magazines, 16 lb recoil spring, the extracter tuned and fit, and chamber and ramp polished. The only thing is after about 120 or so firings of my hand loads in a row without cleaning, I get a three point jam, case about three quarters out of the chamber. Its almost always on slide lock reloads. Im wondering if the load is just too dirty. If I push hard on the slide, or drop the magazine it will usually chamber just fine. the load is 5.5 grs bullseye, cci/winchester large pistol primers, Precision Delta 230fmj (great bullets!) loaded to 1.262, mixed brass I have noticed that the problem is more common when a shorter oal is used. The last one measured at 1.254 after the jam. Occasionally the ogive is a little off and the bullets get seated shorter or longer than normal. Only jammed one time on factory ammo... some plated federal from wallmart that didn't seem high quality, but at 17$ a box this year I figured why not, same jam thou. Any thoughts would be great, thanks!

 

[Jim K]

"Great bullets" have the "ogive a little off" enough to affect the seating and the OAL? That sounds just a bit contradictory. But, yes, Bullseye is not a clean burning powder; it is popular with target shooters because it is effective in small loadings and thus is cheaper than some better powders. I suggest you try another powder and see if the crud goes away and takes the jamming with it. Or resign yourself to cleaning the pistol more often, or hosing it down at the range to keep it firing.

Jim

 

[mjsdwash]

Yea i know what you mean about 'great' and inconsistent not going together. Its about 8 or so out of 1000 that measure off, but the trade off is great accuracy out of three guns that don't like the same ammo in most cases, at 120$ per thousand, free shipping. Good to confirm they can jam when dirty, ive heard they do, and ive heard they dont, but bullseye starts to spit crud out the gun after 100 or so, so i guess ill give 231 a try. Thanks!

 

[1911Tuner]

Look to the barrel bed. If carbon fouling accumulates heavily, the barrel positions higher and the bullet may be impacting the barrel ramp too far below the top corner, and pushing the barrel forward. Barrel moves forward and up. If it moves up too early for the lugs to clear those in the slide...the corners of the lugs hit and bring it to a halt.

 

[mjsdwash]

It seems like most of the fowling accumulates rite there. I need solvent to clean it after 200 rounds, or a lot of scrubbing. Not just black smoke, but thick flakes stuck on. That thing about the lugs makes sense, anything I can do to tweak the timing, or should I just use cleaner ammo? I used Bulleye because I read it was the original 45 ball powder for the world wars, and stuck with it through the filth because its so accurate and cheap. Is this jam normal with GI ball ammo by any chance?

 

[1911Tuner]

No sense in trying to mess with the barrel timing. If the barrel is being held off the bed high enough to cause the problem, it won't help much if at all. The bed can probably be cut just a few thousandths to lower the barrel...but it's not a kitchen table job.

 

[mjsdwash]

If you say dont do it i wont, but out of curiosity, will cutting the frame not mess with the controlled feed? Does the barrel sit low enough on the bed to prevent build up usually? Well I guess it'll be new powder from now on. Thanks for your help.

 

[1911Tuner]

Lowering the bed won't affect the controlled feed, but taking it too far can have an effect on extraction and ejection if the barrel drops so far that it pulls the case out of the extractor.

One adverse effect that you may have with your pistol is when the crud builds up, it may get thick enough to cause the barrel to hit the bed before it hits the vertical impact surface. That can cause the lower lug to crack, or even pull completely off the barrel. Not high risk, but possible.

To check for this condition, the next time the gun starts to hang up:

Pop the slidestop out, but leave the crosspin through the link and frame. Remove the spring plug to let the recoil spring relax. With the slidestop arm against the frame but hanging vertical...press the muzzle straight back against a table or bench and hold it there with light force. The slidestop arm should swing freely. If it doesn't, the link is in a bind, trying to get the barrel lower. Clean the frame bed and repeat the test. It should swing.

If you do have this condition when the gun is dirty, it's worth your while to seek out a competent smith who can take about .003 inch or so out of the bed.

 

[mjsdwash]

Allright, thanks for the advice, ill try that first thing in the morning, when getting into the safe wont wake anyone. Is there a hard limit to how far that bed can go?

 

[1911Tuner]

Depends on the individual gun and its dimensions. If the barrel isn't being stopped by the link when it's clean...I wouldn't go any more than about .005 inch. If it is...you can probably use a bit more.

 

[mjsdwash]

Looks like you got it. Ill see about where I can go to have that worked out. Is it just a matter of lowering the bed to make more room for crud before it gets 'too' dirty? Theres not alot of gunsmiths i can find around here, and would take it to a machine shop if i could, but would need to be specific about it. thanks again

 

[1911Tuner]

Yep. It's usually jut a matter of taking a few thousandths out of the bed to let the barrel drop lower when it gets dirty. The wrench may determine that it needs a little more if he checks the drop clearance and finds that it's too close for comfort...but about 98% of the time, .003-.005 inch does the trick.

An old hand may do the work manually...the old-fashioned way. A new-age smith will likely opt for a machining operation with a ball end mill. Either way works.

 

[mjsdwash]

allright sounds good. I might be able to get an auto parts shop to do it, if they have the equipment. If not, ill probably ignore it, since this is only a fun gun, and the problems not too horrible to ignore until I find a guy who can. I mostly wanted confirmation that there was in fact a problem before looking into buying another, more expensive model. Maybe the ruger when the offer it in one color, without the beavertail. Thanks again for your help!

 

[1911Tuner]

Well...An automotive machine shop may not want to do any work on it as a matter of legality. If they accept money for the work, they're in violation of federal firearms laws that require a license for gunsmithing work for profit. Since the frame is technically the gun...they could be in jeopardy for doing it. Slide or any other part not serialized...probably not an issue. Frame? Issue.

 

[mjsdwash]

Thats a good point you make, and that explains why the last shop I took a gun to rejected doing work, despite doing custom work. Wish they would have mentioned that, but they just told me they were not interested. Gunsmith it is.