Disagreement with a customer today at work
- Thread starter Echo9
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REAPER4206969
Member
There are a lot of people with VX-1/VX-2 scopes on rifles with harder felt recoil then a .50BMG. Do you have any cases of Leupold scopes breaking on .50's?
REAPER4206969
Member
How many have you had break and what kind of failures?
You could wait for me to reply before calling me a "bull****ter."
But really, I'm guessing no harm or real insult was intended.
Anyway, I am far from a scope expert. I mean very far. I know guns pretty well. Where I work, we happen to sell scopes. So I have to handle that as well, and I limp along as best I can. My mounting training started maybe two months ago.
You guys seem pretty incredulous about this, so...
Some of my information is second hand. I work part time, so I hear about these things from people who were there.
I've heard of two scopes breaking on a .50 BMG. I have no idea what those scopes were. People at work commonly say stuff like "came apart" -- when talking about scopes breaking in general, not just the AR-50/82A1.
I personally saw one scope mounted on an AR-50 with a broken reticle. And I do believe it was a Leupold VX-1. One of the head scope people I work with (who's an arrogant bastard, in all honesty -- is he wrong?) told me he refuses to mount most scopes (including the VX-1) on .50 BMGs, because of the chance of the lens shattering and blinding someone.
Does that not sound right?
But really, I'm guessing no harm or real insult was intended.
Anyway, I am far from a scope expert. I mean very far. I know guns pretty well. Where I work, we happen to sell scopes. So I have to handle that as well, and I limp along as best I can. My mounting training started maybe two months ago.
You guys seem pretty incredulous about this, so...
Some of my information is second hand. I work part time, so I hear about these things from people who were there.
I've heard of two scopes breaking on a .50 BMG. I have no idea what those scopes were. People at work commonly say stuff like "came apart" -- when talking about scopes breaking in general, not just the AR-50/82A1.
I personally saw one scope mounted on an AR-50 with a broken reticle. And I do believe it was a Leupold VX-1. One of the head scope people I work with (who's an arrogant bastard, in all honesty -- is he wrong?) told me he refuses to mount most scopes (including the VX-1) on .50 BMGs, because of the chance of the lens shattering and blinding someone.
Does that not sound right?
The first 2.5Gens started showing up in 1995, the first true 3rdGens in 1996/97 based on the information from the link provided by GigaBuist above.
I've got a little based on measurements I've done on half a dozen Glocks in various states of wear.
You can get the striker to fall with the slide pulled back about 2.5mm to 3.1mm. Because of the way the firing pin safety and the connector work, somewhere in that range one or both will deactivate the gun. If the connector "ear" or the cam on the slide is worn then the firing pin safety will deactivate the gun before the connector disables the trigger. If not it's sort of a tossup as to which one deactivates the gun first.
Because of the way the Glock trigger system works, every mm that the slide comes out of battery reduces the striker spring compression by an equal amount. Reducing the compression by 2mm reduces the striker spring energy by 35% and reducing the compression by 3mm reduces the energy stored in the striker spring by 50% compared to full compression. Even a relatively small amount of rearward slide travel really cuts down on the energy stored in the striker spring.
By the time the locking surfaces in a typical Glock have fully disengaged the striker spring energy has been decreased by around 70%, the connector has disabled the firing mechanism and the firing pin safety has blocked the firing pin.
Firing can happen with the slide less than fully forward but not with the action fully unlocked. In a properly working Glock, the locking surface engagement is about 45% or better if the gun can be made to fire.
armoredman
Member
I am no Glock fan, but we had a rental 17 that went over 100k rounds, then cracked the slide under the ejection port.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I'm no expert but I highly doubt you can fire any handgun 90,000+ times without changing the springs. Heck, they recommend changing the recoil spring on a 1911 ~every 5,000 rounds if I remember correctly. Something just doesn't smell right about his story... 
hub
Member
Ooh he was a professional, kinda reminds me of this LEO, teaching a safety class. He must be right.
That's right glock fo tay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY
I would say he probably got the class simply because he is a LEO, and it didn't have a whole lot to do with his overwhelming knowledge of firearms.
I think how you acted normally for what he did to you. All customer respect went out the window when he pulled a loaded firearm out of his holster. If I would have been there I would have got myself ready to pull my weopan as I retreated and left the store. What a knuckle head.
highorder
Member
No, that's not right. That's just a scope snob. Not a physics professor, is he?...
Ifishsum
Member
The bit about the scope - while it's no secret that heavy recoiling guns can be hard on scopes, the main problem would be the reticle being jarred loose and the scope no longer holding a zero. I'd be surprised if anyone could come up with an incident of a scope lens shattering solely under recoil 
Even if it did, it would come out the front because the recoil impulse is going rearward.
Even if it did, it would come out the front because the recoil impulse is going rearward.
shotgunjoel
Member
A CCW class with rifles and shotguns!? They cover concealing long guns in CCW classes!? That guy is full of crap. I bet the badge was the CC badge he bought online.
Dittos.
Hey, Echo9, he didn't mention anything about making a lot of posts on THR in a short time, did he?
Nah, guess not.
It would be great to have a merged thread about stupid things heard on both sides of the counter at gun stores. (There probably is one, but I'm to lazy to search for it.)
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highorder
Member
tipoc
Member
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I don't know if that number is correct. Last time I read of it he was well over 100,000 rounds through the gun. If Taylor says over 250,000 I would believe him. Taylor has also regularly serviced it replacing springs and parts as need be. IIRC he has worn out and replaced more than one barrel on the gun as well.
In one of his books he speaks of other guns he has with close to or over 100,000 rounds through them. With proper maintenance.
tipoc
Lonestar49
Member
Ya did good, no matter..
...
Some people just drink a more potent batch of cool-aid than others..
Do I think it was, his story, sorta a stretch.. ? I can only speak to the return spring, and I'm sure it has..
Ls
...
Some people just drink a more potent batch of cool-aid than others..
Do I think it was, his story, sorta a stretch.. ? I can only speak to the return spring, and I'm sure it has..
Ls
First, please support your post with evidence before calling me a liar or implying that I'm wrong.
Why do you assume that I hate Glocks? Never have I said that Glocks habitually blow up and fire out of battery often. I told him that Glocks are capable of firing out of battery. In my OP, I said that I was telling a customer the pros and cons of a Glock.
I told him that Glocks have a low bore axis, come in a wide variety of sizes and calibers, and are very durable and reliable under most conditions.
A selling point?
I don't think a malfunction like that is going to be much of a selling point. It was just information. Every gun will have its own problems. I don't like when people buy guns unaware of what that particular gun is prone to. That goes for 1911s of all makes, SA XD's, HKs, Sigs, etc.
He had permission to take out his gun. What he did not have permission for is to put a magazine full of hollow points on the counter. He was supposed to hand it to me and did not.
I spoke with this guy for about an hour; I wasn't going to post every detail.
Phydeaux642
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Maybe it was one of those nifty "Concealed Carry" badges.
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