Do most antis have reasons for being anti?

[Nushif]

Yup.

The article also has really good advice on how to talk to an anti, and maybe get them to think.

That's the slope I was talking about. We went from someone who had views other than us to using a "shrink" and "getting people to think."

"Antis" are people too. People who don't like what we think. But there's no point to assume simply because someone who doesn't agree with our point of view when it comes to personal defense "doesn't think."

This whole "facts" and "start to think" rhetoric is just as misguided as "assault weapons."

"How to talk to an anti" ... it's not like they're a foreign species. They're people too. And you talk to them with respect and so they maintain their dignity.

 

[Gordon_Freeman]

I got shot in the hip with .22 birdshot from close range by a kid when I was 13. It seems like I should really fear guns because of that experience. I have always enjoyed shooting and I like guns more than ever now.

 

[duns]

It's mainly about culture -- if you are brought up in an anti-gun environment you will most likely be anti-gun. That doesn't mean you haven't thought about it deeply but you will be predisposed to accept the prevailing opinion of your country or of your neighbors in the place where you live. It may still translate into a deep conviction that guns (and self defense) are wrong. There is a parallel with religion - people tend to believe in the religion they were brought up in. It is misguided to ridicule people who have different views; that will do more harm than good. The only option is to discuss with them while accepting their views though the chance of making converts is slim.

 

[Sediment]

From my experience I haven't been able to "convert" any anti-gunners, but if you can have a level-headed conversation with them, you can at least help them understand where you are coming from. Making yourself understood in a civilized way without sounding like "some racist-redneck-conservative-militia-member-whackjob" then you give yourself a leg to stand on. Rambling on about anti-gun politicians and their ilk only serves to fuel the fire against pro-2A people. Abortion, Gay marriage, Religion, Global Warming and 9/11 Conspiracy theories are hot button topics right up there with guns, gun rights, and gun owners. It must be approached in a way as to not attack someones beliefs or calling them stupid. Helping them understand the reality that guns are not evil and do not turn gun owners into murderers is a step in the right direction. You may never convert someone but you can help them get the "other sides" story and go from there.

Stay calm, listen and try to understand the person you are talking to. In the same light they should have enough respect to listen and understand you and why you feel the way you do. If you cannot even have a simple discussion with another human being that disagrees with you, then you should probably save your breath for another day.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um, they don't think about it, no really ask them
the have their opinion, alot of reinforcement that it's the right one, and they are happy with it.

Every now and then, one of them runs up against the cold hard world, and they usually just take it as proof that they were right, not that they were wrong, and could have done some thing to help themselves out.

 

[bbuddtec]

Harry, and Cosmoline are on it in my opinion, key word being "school" and the music fuels the teacher fantasy world, then throw in the "a" factor, as yhtomit said, and you have division. Like the guys that get off scaring people with their gun(s), they are working against us.

Being responsible and an ambassador for gun ownership could be a part of the solution, I'd offer that NRA/ILA membership would help in this cause, and I'm in. New York needs help and no I can't just up and move, most unfortunately.

 

[M-Cameron]

I got shot in the hip with .22 birdshot from close range by a kid when I was 13. It seems like I should really fear guns because of that experience. I have always enjoyed shooting and I like guns more than ever now.

no....not at all.......

there are plenty of people who get into car accidents and continue to drive, plenty of chefs who cut themselves and continue to cook, and plenty of pilots who had an emergency landing and continue to fly...........

.........HOWEVER.... there are also people who get into a car accident and never drive a car for the rest of their lives.....

Psychology is a semi-science........human brains are similar......but they are never exactly the same, even in identical twins raised the same way, they are different.......

.....so it makes no sense to assume that what happens to one person will have the same effect on someone else.

 

[Pete D.]

yeah

Do you find most people who are anti-gun to just be unknowledgeable about the topic?

Well....I haven't met most people who are anti gun but, regarding the ones that I have met,....the answer is yes.
Pete

 

[Lord Teapot]

most of the anti's i've spoken with seem to think guns are in themselves evil. no particular reasoning behind it, most of them can be brought to the light by producing statistics showing higher crime in lower gun ownership areas.

 

[Paladin7]

Personally, I believe liberalism is a mental disorder. Anti-gun folks are nearly always political liberals.

All the liberals I know, and there are a lot of them where I live, are irrationally afraid of their own shadows, envious/jealous of others and harbor deep seated prejudice. Hmmm, come to think of it, that sounds exactly like the picture they try to paint of God fearing southern conservatives.... Anyway, they cling to Utopian ideals as a means of controlling others to make up for their own neurosis and short comings in life.

Do I sound bitter? Well I guess that's what living in a blue state will do to you... And why are these states blue? Shouldn't they be RED?

 

[stevelyn]

I find most antis have some sort of mental or emotional issues and have difficulty functioning normally in life. Look closely and you'll find other areas of their life screwed up.

 

[Mt Shooter]

I think its beacuse most Anti's have a D under there poltical preferances.

 

[M-Cameron]

I find most antis have some sort of mental or emotional issues and have difficulty functioning normally in life. Look closely and you'll other areas of their life screwed up.

ehh......

if you look at anyone closely enough......youll find most peoples lives are a little screwwy.....

you can find signs of mental issues in just about everyone.........and just about every family has some history of mental illness somewhere along the lines......

 

[D94R]

I suspect their thoughts are captured in the Beatles song 'Imagine': "Imagine all the people Living life in peace...".

Yet, "Happiness, is a warm gun, baby"




Anyhow, I know of two (yes only two) people personally that I consider to be hardcore anti-gun. One is a co-worker's wife. She's the typical person who has done everything there is to do in life. "I've shot machine guns, drove tanks, met Elvis, yadda yadda yadda." She is also a product of Chicago. I'd recon her stance on these type of hot-topics is more for attention as that is what her world is based upon.



The other person is a co-worker. A product of Seattle. He recently made the comment that he thinks "they" should ban all full auto and semi auto guns and we'd all be safer. He qualified this statement by reminding us he just got back from 6 months in Singapore and he "never felt safer". When I cornered him about how many times he can recall a full-auto weapon being used in a crime he couldn't think of any (admittantly I can only think of the LA Bank robbery). I also pointed out that full auto's are pretty much out of touch for the majority, and are very limited in number as it were to the public. He still had nothing to say. He also was left without words when I asked what the people of Singapore were to do if their government were to turn on them, and if he understood we have the Right to bare arms for that reason. Again, he couldn't comment. Now, this guy used to work as a garbage man, and killed a homeless guy who was sleeping in a dumpster, when he emptied it into the truck and crushed the garbage and the man. I like to always kill his tirade of comments stating he's killed more people with his dump truck than I have with my guns, so we should therefore ban garbage trucks. Unfortunately, logic will never win this guy over. He is a product of letting everyone do the thinking for him.

 

[Nushif]

This is why people don't like gun owners:

Personally, I believe liberalism is a mental disorder. Anti-gun folks are nearly always political liberals.

I think its beacuse most Anti's have a D under there poltical preferances.

I find most antis have some sort of mental or emotional issues and have difficulty functioning normally in life.

[...] they cling to Utopian ideals as a means of controlling others to make up for their own neurosis and short comings in life.

All the liberals I know [...] are irrationally afraid of their own shadows, envious/jealous of others and harbor deep seated prejudice.

This ... is what we should do to sway popular opinion.

Being responsible and an ambassador for gun ownership could be a part of the solution [...]

[...] but if you can have a level-headed conversation with them, you can at least help them understand where you are coming from. Making yourself understood in a civilized way [...]

Keep going, guys! I'm sure we can alienate a couple more folks to what we love in life! With comments like the topmost ones, who needs the Brady Campaign? Because ...

If you cannot even have a simple discussion with another human being that disagrees with you, then you should probably save your breath for another day.

 

[ErikO]

I grew up in a house where my older brother had guns and reloaded ammo in the basement while my mom told me time and time again that guns were dangerous. She grew up in occupied Norway where having a gun had other liabilities...

The earliest memory I have about firearms was when my brother let em hold his Remington .30-06 (bolt removed) when I was 7 or 8. Damned thing was heavy, smelled of cordite and gun oil and I was in *love*. Unfortunately, living in Illinois made it hard for me to justify owning guns, a situation I am working to fix now that we're settled in Missouri.

My wife grew up in Canada. She has not had 'any use for guns' until after we got broken in to back in December. We're going to a First Shots in June.

The point is, it seems that it takes many factors to make someone either pro or anti gun ownership. Not being a jerk is a good way to get your point across to someone and taht is the tactic I try to employ.

 

[Paladin7]

Nushif, yes we are being a bit harsh... but I just don't think that you can reason with someone who is unreasonable.

Someone on the fence, or who isn't really paying attention and has some Liberal beliefs for whatever reason, but is otherwise reasonable and willing to think is another story.

I guess I should have made a distinction between the two.

 

[Nushif]

I don't know what kind of "mellowing" you can do to a line like liberalism being called a mental disorder.
It shows the depth of your argument in this case quite nicely.

 

[Paladin7]

I'll stand by my statement that Liberalism is a mental disorder. I'm not sure how else to describe an irrational belief in a utopian ideal, the end of which recorded history has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, is human misery, death and genocide.

 

[Cryogaijin]

I'll stand by my statement that Liberalism is a mental disorder. I'm not sure how else to describe an irrational belief in a utopian ideal, the end of which recorded history has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, is human misery, death and genocide.

Look up the definition of Liberal some time. You're using it wrong. Let me help you.

: 5. broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

or

relating to or having social and political views that favour progress and reform

relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom

This last one describes the majority of people on this forum, I believe. Also the right to personal carry wouldn't exist without these modes of thinking.

In my experience there usually are reasons for people to be Anti. MANY people are anti gun largely due to having no exposure. Others are antigun due to a traumatizing experience. Others are anti-gun due to people making ignorant comments like the one above. Still more are anti-gun due to buying into the stack of lies that Hollywood portrays.

It is important to remember that every person with a firearm represents the firearms community to those people they interact with. If you're an ignorant redneck who likes giving overpowered guns to undersized women, you're part of the problem. If you're a sensible person that portrays firearms as tools for specific tasks, and nothing more, you are part of the solution.

The whole thing about the "Liberal vs conservative" debate is so upside down it isn't funny. If you look at the ACTUAL definitions, not those that people assume are the definitions, it is the people wanting more power for the federal government, more "socialist" agenda that are conservative (Remember, this country was founded on the liberal notion to get us AWAY from centralized power structures) and those of us desiring more local power, less federal, and emphasizing individual freedoms are actually the liberals. But I guess that is a mental disorder.

 

[yhtomit]

But, I think that a lot, if not most, of the anti-gun feeling is the result of political "tribalism." That is, if you live in the Northeast, or in California, and most of your friends are "liberals," you'll go along unthinkingly with their prevailing ideology, which includes being against guns. (The converse is also true -- being pro-gun has become part of the so-called "conservative" ideology.)

Hear, hear!

And Yep, the blade cuts both ways -- No, *many* ways! Much easier to be part of a larger group; when you think some other bunch agrees with you on 5 of 6 things, it's a lot of pressure on you to agree with them on the 6th.

timothy

 

[Tommygunn]

This is why people don't like gun owners:


Quote:
Personally, I believe liberalism is a mental disorder. Anti-gun folks are nearly always political liberals.

Quote:
I think its beacuse most Anti's have a D under there poltical preferances.

Quote:
I find most antis have some sort of mental or emotional issues and have difficulty functioning normally in life.

Quote:
[...] they cling to Utopian ideals as a means of controlling others to make up for their own neurosis and short comings in life.

Quote:
All the liberals I know [...] are irrationally afraid of their own shadows, envious/jealous of others and harbor deep seated prejudice.

This ... is what we should do to sway popular opinion.


Quote:
Being responsible and an ambassador for gun ownership could be a part of the solution [...]

Quote:
[...] but if you can have a level-headed conversation with them, you can at least help them understand where you are coming from. Making yourself understood in a civilized way [...]

Keep going, guys! I'm sure we can alienate a couple more folks to what we love in life! With comments like the topmost ones, who needs the Brady Campaign? Because ...


Quote:
If you cannot even have a simple discussion with another human being that disagrees with you, then you should probably save your breath for another day.

__________________
Democrats are not socialists. We have never had a stable socialist government in modern history. All were or are communist and authoritarian. Communism is not socialism. Ironically American conservatism is authoritarian, too.

While some pro gun people refer to antigunners in less than stellar terms, the converse is also true: many liberal, antigunners are equally disdainful in how they treat progunners.
I wouldn't start trying to convince an antigunner by claiming they have a "psychosis" (or whatever) but if they persisted in being unable to atleast get their heads around an opposing argument, I'd probably walk away thinking they might actually have a mental hang up.
Communism is not "socialism," but it is an "iteration" of socialism. The Soviet Union was communistic, but the name "USSR" meant "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics." The USSR was not really a republic -- atleast not as our founders would define one. Democracy, socialism, they were steps a country took on the way toward true communist states.
Democrats (some) may not be true socialists in the pure sense of the word but they are what could be called "socialistic." That is "after the manner of socialists."
We get closer to totalitarinism everyday. Really closer to Fascism in a way though.
But .... that's another rant ... ... ... ...

 

[exavid]

Urbanization seems to be the main cause of anti-firearm feelings in people. Most likely because most people in urban settings never have cause to handle or use a firearm. Their only contact with firearms are the evening news on TV or their newspapers all describing crimes done with firearms. Highly urbanized people don't do much for them selves, they have never hunted or fished for food. They hire most of their plumbing, electrical, carpentry, painting, etc. work to be done for them. These are very insulated people who rely on others for all their needs and safety. They rely on 'professionals' for these services. The same goes for their personal safety. They don't own much in the way of hand or power tools because that kind of work is done for them. The same goes for guns. They have the police, professionals, for that kind of thing. They don't need guns or an electric drill and they don't know how to deal with either.
Urbanization also seems to foster what we refer to as 'liberalism' although that is a badly applied name because modern liberals are anything but. Liberals are the first to call for a ban on anything they don't like. They are highly authoritarian, look at our schools with their insane 'zero tolerance' rules. Designed to be followed unthinkingly by rote which reduces any need for common sense and thought. Look at universities that love 'diversity' but not diversity in thought. Students are expected to parrot back what their teachers and professors believe or are penalized for having the temerity of thinking critically. Look at global warming, skeptics were compared to holocaust deniers. If you didn't follow the received opinions on the subject you were a pariah.
I don't believe that liberalism is a mental disease but I believe that what passes for liberalism nowadays certainly is.

 

[Nushif]

Urbanization seems to be the main cause of anti-firearm feelings in people.

Now that is pretty darned plausible. Exposure to well ... anything has a lot to do with comfort level.

 

[crathbone78]

My wife didn't like guns before we got married and at the time I was kind of in between guns (I had sold them all needing money a couple years before I met her). I think she gets it from her mom. Her dad was in the Navy and her mom wouldnt even let him bring the fake parade rifles in the house. She was sure that one of the kids would get shot if there was a gun in the house. I have started rebuilding my collection, taking her to the range, and bought her a .22lr to try out. Now she loves going to the range.

I recently told my mom and sister about getting my CCW. They both gasped and asked why I would need to carry a gun around with me, like I was trying to be John Wayne or something. After having a logical conversation with them they seemed to understand, and even appreciate the fact that while I am around them, they have some protection from the BG's.

Some people though, you cannot have a logical conversation with and I try not to waste my time on.