olafhardtb said:
If someone reads this whole post they can get a good idea of what I was talking about.
I'm not sure.
I often read posts advising prospective shooters that they have to practice a lot, practice all sort of positions, clean thier guns a bunch etc. I think we may scare some of them off.
So you feel that telling folks they should get training, should practice, should clean their guns, etc. scares people off?
I honestly don't recall any threads where someone came here and announced they were looking at getting their first gun and there were inappropriate responses, over-aggressively promoting any of those things.
So you might be "tilting at windmills" here -- fighting a problem that doesn't exist. Where are these inappropriately assertive posts? Which new shooters do you think we've scared off?
I do recall several new shooters who've come here looking for advice and have soaked up everything like a sponge, coming back over and over for deeper insight and supplements to the instruction he/she's receiving at his/her local range.
Where is the evidence that we're doing harm? If you're calling for a change in how things are you'd better have some concrete proof that the bad thing you're worried about is happening.
It's just not true. I have known effective hunters and poachers that really never practiced.
Ok. Now hunting and ... poaching (really?
) ... requires safe gun handling (so were those guys SAFE? Or did they just manage to kill deer?) but killing a deer just isn't that hard. Hitting an animal standing still 50 yards away (or whatever) really isn't that hard, but we all know how many game animals are missed, or wounded badly and lost.
You know hunters ... and poachers (great...
) ... who kill deer "successfully" without any practice?
Fantastic! I know hunters who miss shots all the time and manage to wound and lose animals which will suffer, and/or die lost in a bramble somewhere.
What possible point could you have in suggesting that some manage to kill deer? So what? That is not evidence of safe or proficient gun handling.
I have also seen plinking with a 22 transfer directly into skill with larger bores.
Of course. That's something any trainer would tell you, too.
But bad practice with a .22 quickly becomes WORSE practice with bigger bores. Without a basis of skills to work off of, you spend the rest of your life fighting bad habits and trying to re-invent the wheel, discovering how to get rid of them on your own.
I also question some of the safety rules. I hunt in thick woods, there could easily be something behind my target that I wasn't aware of regardless of how vigilent I was
You question the safety rules? I'm almost amazed anyone would post that "out loud" but, if you aren't sure of what's behind your target, you shouldn't be shooting. Or do you mean you DID know what was behind your target after all? If you were "vigilant" then you would have known the lay of the land and that your shots weren't going to a house, school, road, or some other vulnerable "target."
I think it is good to practice every once and a while and to be careful with guns but I look at shooting as a fun sport.
Two point:
1) Yes, it is a fun sport and you can enjoy it casually without competition and strict goals. Plinking cans is fun. Machine gun shoots are fun. Etc., etc. BUT...
2) "FUN" does not negate the DEADLY SERIOUS nature of using firearms. Fireworks, automobiles, table saws, high voltage, rattlesnakes, alcohol and many other things can be FUN, too, but they are DEADLY SERIOUS. Forget that for one second and someone can be permanently dead. EVERY session with a firearm needs to have that knowledge hanging firmly in the minds of every person involved.
Does it take training to know that? Hmmm...it would seem to help, based on the new shooters (and a lot of old shooters, too) that I've met.
If you can chase a tin can with a Ruger mk 2 then you can blast boogers with a Glock 19.
Oh my <diety>.
The idea that "I have a gun and I can hit tin cans with it, so I'm ready to defend myself" is a BIG part of why we end up with these stories of "good guys" ending up in jail for "defending themselves" with their gun the way their common sense told them to.
Yeah, if you're a crack shot with your plinking gun, you might hit your target. But the laws pertaining to self-defense are NOT AT ALL what average Joe picks up from his peers and his favorite movies and TV shows.
When we tell people they need training for self defense, THEY DO. And a big part of that training is NOT about how to shoot.
So, again, what is the problem you are asking us to solve with your opening post, and where is your evidence that it IS the problem you seem to think it is?