Does This Gun Exist?

[3KillerBs]

As stated in the other thread I have absolutely ruled out being able to carry anything remotely like full-size or even the usual compact sizes. I'm so extremely short-waisted that the grip of an M&P in a shoulder holster actually banged against my hipbone as I moved. As a pear-shaped woman who never managed to lose the baby weight I don't wear belts and being so short-waisted makes drawing from a holster problematical in any case.

I haven't fired the popular Kel-tecs yet, but I find them uncomfortable to hold -- something between a hedgehog and the back of a knife blade. I can't imagine that they are any nicer to fire than to hold.

Today I found the perfect, little gun that both fits beautifully in my hand and ought to be small enough to conceal since I could hold it against my body and cover it with my hand. It sat in the hollow in front of my hipbone and it sat against my ribs below my breast. The problem is, its the Taurus model .22 -- the tip-up barrel gun in .22lr.



Does a gun just that size with that same sort of round grips that fill the palm securely exist in 9mm? Or, maybe, .38special? I prefer semi-automatics but I'll grudgingly consider revolvers.

A .22lr that I can carry beats a 9mm locked in a case away from the kids but I'd far rather have a 9mm that I can carry if it can be found. Finances are an issue though so it has to be found under $500 and it has to be a caliber I can afford to shoot. But I don't know if any such gun exists at all.

(BTW -- the tip-up feature is completely irrelevant. I can rack the slide on every gun I've tried including full-size duty guns).

 

[Gator]

I think a Beretta Tomcat (.380) is the closest thing.

 

[lamazza]

I have one of those Taurus .22 and I can't fire 2 rounds without a jam. Way too unreliable to carry.

 

[3KillerBs]

I think a Beretta Tomcat (.380) is the closest thing.

At 50% more/box of 50 .380 is too expensive to shoot on our budget. It has to be 9mm or .38special/.357magnum.

 

[wdlsguy]

I find the recoil from a Keltec P32 to be fairly mild. I find the recoil from a Keltec P3AT a bit frisky, not to the point of being painful though.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I think a Beretta Tomcat (.380) is the closest thing.

Tomcat is .32, and it's a nice little gun. I have one with night sights. THe cheetah is the .380.

At 50% more/box of 50 .380 is too expensive to shoot on our budget. It has to be 9mm or .38special/.357magnum.

Kahr PM9 is pretty dang small. Just remember, though-the recoil from such tiny 9mm handguns is rather brisk.

If it is to be a carry gun, just how much ammo do you intend to put through it? Mine get a 200 round litmus test, and then the occasional function check. IMO< ammo cost shouldn't really be a consideration with a CCW piece. Fit, form, function are paramount.

I would suggest a look at the Tomcat. It's roughly the same size as that little Taurus, but far more reliable and significantly more potent. .22 LR high velocity rounds from a 2-3" barrel make less than 80 ft/lbs on average. .32 ACP will hit 130-160.

 

[3KillerBs]

I expect to train regularly with my carry gun because I don't have the long familiarity with many types of gun that would ensure that I could smoothly switch from shooting my Mark III Hunter with the 6 7/8" barrel and the fiber-optic sights to shooting a gun tiny enough for me to conceal that will almost certainly have fixed sights of iffy visibility. I'm not an expert yet.

So, since finances are an issue, we've determined that when it comes to centerfire we can reasonably afford to shoot 9mm or .38special. All the other calibers are from 50% to 200% more expensive.

I don't want to carry the little Taurus unless I can't find a better alternative. I'm hoping that a similar-sized gun -- semi-auto or revolver -- with a similar grip exists in one of the calibers that we can afford.

 

[makarovnik]

Try a Kahr mini 9mm. With the correct ammo theY are small, easy to hold and recoil isn't bad. One of problems with the Kel-Tecs is they are small but if they would make them out of metal they would be just heavy enough as to tame the recoil.

Try the NAA Guardian. It sounds just like what you aare looking for. Some of the new calibers they created for this gun are pretty hot. I like the NAA .32. It is a .380acp case, necked down to accept a .32acp bullet traveleing at high velocity. The pistol is small, high quality and METAL.

 

[3KillerBs]

Kahr PM9 is pretty dang small. Just remember, though-the recoil from such tiny 9mm handguns is rather brisk.

I'll make a note of that one.

I think if the grip is good I can handle the recoil. What makes me so doubtful of the Kel-Tecs is that they're already uncomfortable to hold before they're fired. Not long ago a friend loaned us his son's 28gauge shotgun and the only ammo we could find was high velocity. Firing that tiny shotgun with its small, narrow stock was like being beaten with a little hammer. But firing a 12 gauge, though more powerful, isn't nearly such a bruising experience.

I'm not afraid of recoil if I have a good grip to spread the force. Its the narrow, almost blade-like backstrap on the Kel-Tec that gives me pause.

 

[lee n. field]

The problem is, its the Taurus model .22 -- the tip-up barrel gun in .22lr.

Brother's got one. Not terribly reliable.

Anyway...

Does a gun just that size with that same sort of round grips that fill the palm securely exist in 9mm?

Look at Bobo's pocket auto comparison chart.

 

[Treo]

CZ 2075 RAMI in 9mm? Possibly a CZ82 ( but it's 9x18)
But it's also like 200.00$ so you can spend 300.00$ on ammunition

Fanny pack? purse carry? BIIIIIIIG pockets on your pants?

 

[Gator]

Tomcat is .32, and it's a nice little gun. I have one with night sights. THe cheetah is the .380.

Thanks for the correction.

3KillerBs, if you want a small 9mm there are a few to choose from, Kahr, Kel-Tec, and Rohrbaugh for example. But none of them have the grip that Taurus does.

Small .38s are very plentiful, think of all the great J frame Smiths out there. You can get a wide variety of grips for the J frames too, you are sure to find one you like.

 

[3KillerBs]

@lee n. field,
Thank you for the link to the chart. That's very helpful.

@treo,
I might use a fanny pack for traveling, but I can't see myself sitting at my computer desk, leaning over my sewing machine, or bending over the stove with a fanny pack on every waking hour. It would be badly in the way.

And purse carry is out of the question with a 2yo underfoot and getting into everything the moment my back is turned or my attention diverted. Especially since I don't carry my purse from room to room as I go about my daily activities.

My hope is to find something I can put into a belly band/smartcarry or, on the rare occasions that I wear something with a non-elastic waist, a clip-on type IWB holster.

 

[3KillerBs]

@Gator,
I'm not fond of revolvers, but since I failed spectacularly at concealing DH's M&P I've had to put them on the list to consider.

 

[wdlsguy]

Since it has to be small, flat and a .38 special / 9mm, how about a derringer?

 

[3KillerBs]

@wdlsguy,
It doesn't necessarily have to be flat. Those Taurus/Beretta grips are round and not especially thin ("concealed gun" isn't the first thing people think when seeing yet another curve on a woman who never lost her baby weight).

Any particular derringers you might suggest?

 

[scurtis_34471]

Have you looked at the Kahr PM9? It is a very small, well made, reliable, accurate 9mm with remarkably soft recoil for a 16oz gun.

 

[BOOM-BOOM]

3KB.... have you considered the Taurus PT111 Its a 9mm and only 5 oz heavier then the 22.

 

[mr.trooper]

Rohrbaugh R-9, but they are like $1,000.

 

[B yond]

At 50% more/box of 50 .380 is too expensive to shoot on our budget. It has to be 9mm or .38special/.357magnum.

Where are you getting your ammo? I pay $10/box for .380 ACP and 9mm range ammo, and about $14-15/box for JHPs.

In .380 I use magtech 95gr ball for the range and fiocchi 90gr JHP for carry. I get them from sportsmansguide.com.

 

[gunfire876]

Just my .02cents

32 tomcat, Alot of revolvers also like the 32h&r, Kahr9mm, Also Bersa makes alot of great products. I recently saw the tomcat with lasergrips at Budsgunshop.com

 

[owlhoot]

3KillerBs, I have one of those .22 Berettas, and mine is dead dependable. Never fails. But .22 is too small for serious business. I believe you should check out the Kahr CW9. It doesn't have nearly the felt recoil of the PM9, yet weights only 19 oz. And they sell new for under $400.

 

[TimboKhan]

The Beretta Cheetah is an awfully nice gun. For whatever reason, I can shoot those things like nobodys business.

Anyway, probably not helpful to your overall question, but it is a very nice gun...

 

[akodo]

I too strongly suggest the Cheetah
http://products.berettausa.com/frame_tabellaprodotti_2002.asp?sgmt=30&Model=Cheetah
at least hold the cheetah and see how it fits, the same with the Tomcat.

Another suggestion would be a Bersa 380 or other similar Walther PPK based firearm.

Also try the Kel-Tec PF9 and the new Walther PPS, if you like wider grips the stubby glocks are pretty wide.

Finally, I am on yahoo answers a lot, and there is always some duffus who is asking totally unreasonable questions like 'I want a gun powerful enough to kill anything on the planet, but that weights less than 10 oz and I can carry in my shirt pocket and costs less than $100 and ammo is readily available'

I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities. Carrying a firearm is a drastic lifestlye change. You cannot expect to just slap it on top of an existing lifestyle any more than you could expect to slap a kid on top of an existing lifestyle.

I too suggest a fanny pack. I know you say it would be in the way, but that is what everyone said about seatbelts back when they first were introduced, and people complained about smoke detectors being unslightly, but put it in perspective, if a fanny pack is what it takes to have a serious caliber gun ready that you can draw with ease, then that is what it takes.

It seems your unwillingness to change is basically going to drive you one step from 'no gun at all' when your only 'acceptable' option is a .22LR from taurus with a horrible reputaiton for jams. Yes, it is better than nothing...but not by much. A crappy .22LR beats a 9mm in the safe, but a 9mm on the belt + akwardness at the sewing machine beats a crappy 22LR.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have one of those Taurus .22 and I can't fire 2 rounds without a jam. Way too unreliable to carry.

And yet mine has never jammed. Nary a failure in hundreds of rounds, most of those being Remington Yellow Jackets, a round that Taurus singles out as one that you should not use due to it's truncated cone design.