Does This Gun Exist?

[Monkeybear]

Bersa Thunder 380. Get your ammo at Academy or Wal-Mart.

 

[Quiet]

The Taurua PT-22 is a copy of the Beretta Model 21A.
Beretta makes a .32ACP version of the Model 21A called the Model 3032 Tomcat.

 

[lee n. field]

@lee n. field,
Thank you for the link to the chart. That's very helpful.

Take a look also at this recent thread: CCW Review - 9 pistols. Many pictures of small autos.

The P3AT Kel Tek is the tiniest. Up from that, everything he pictures is probably about the size you're looking for.

 

[3KillerBs]

@Owlhoot,
Thanks for that suggestion. It looks like the size specs are very close and its within our budget.

 

[blkbrd666]

I would suggest looking at the new Walther PPS(I think S is for slim???). Try it with both mags because one has a finger extension where the other does not. I say that because this gun shoots pretty well and is 9mm. If it's anywhere close to comfortable in your hand, try a Pachmayer slip-on grip band to adjust the feel...the same slip-on could also change the feel of other small polymer pistols that shoot a decent sized round. The PPK in .380 is a great little pocket pistol, just be careful with the web of your hand and your thumb if you attemp a two handed shot...the slide will eat your hand without mercy unless you get one of the S&W redesigned ones with more frame over your hand. I think the new PPS is going to be a hit for a very small carry gun with 9mm.

 

[3KillerBs]

@akodo,

I will be blunt.

I am 5'3". I weigh 230lbs. I have a belly as big as if I were 7 months pregnant.

Because my mother was seriously ill while pregnant with me my body did not develop in normal proportions so my arms and legs are unusually short. I have very little clearance between the base of my ribs and the top of my hipbones -- even when I was young and has a 23 inch waist I could not wear belts wider than about 1/2". This imposes very strict limits on where I can possibly carry a gun.

I was hoping to be able to use a shoulder holster since that's the largest available space on my body. However, as noted in my other thread, to which I referred in the first post, an experiment with my DH's M&P showed that I cannot carry even a small full-size, probably not a larger compact there because even with the gun raised so high into my armpit that it restricted my movement the base of the grip brushed my hips as I moved.

Because of my abnormally short arms, if I were to wear a fanny pack while doing any task that involved a work surface it would be the equivalent of the average man having a full-sized toolbox jammed between his ribcage and his workbench. Ever try typing with your arms extended full-length?

If the world were perfect I'd be 5'8", 150lbs, have graceful, long-fingered hands that could reach and manipulate the controls on a full-size 1911 with ease, and consider $1500 for a gun and $30/50 rounds of ammo pocket change.

But then in a perfect world no one would ever have reason to fear that another would invade their homes, assault them, or kidnap their children.

I asked what, to a gun newbie, seems like a perfectly reasonable question -- Does a 9mm gun in that size with similar grips exist? If it doesn't then, "No, I'm afraid there is no such thing," is a perfectly reasonable answer.

Berating me on general principles without giving me the respect of believing that the limitations I've expressed are real is extremely rude. You might well be able to intimidate other newbies and other women that way, but it doesn't work on me.

Would you make "lifestyle changes" to carry the gun you carry now if it meant dressing in a nun's habit or a burka? If it meant carrying a large tool box strapped in front of your waist? I assure you, that's the only way I could successfully conceal a gun much larger than the size I'm looking for.

 

[-v-]

With the PF-9 I would suggest a houge hardball jr. slip-on grip. I didn't care much for my PF9's waffle-grip, but with that little $6 piece of rubber it made it feel much better in the hand. It may be something worth considering.

As far as I understand your requirements, the gun needs to be short and with a short grip, but slimness is not necessarily as big a concern, correct? If so one of those sub-compact Glocks might work for you. That and they come in every caliber under the sun. I'll also throw out the Taurus PT111. Its fairly robust design and is equally compact.

I don't know how many carry options you have examined, but I would suggst one of them is IWB carry with a 45-degree forward cant (FBI cant) at a 3 or 3:30 o'clock position. I note at that position the hollow of the grip of the gun is vertically up, making it much easier to carry then with a strait-up vertical position, where the back of the gun digs into your body.

OWB might also be an option, since it keeps the gun close, but gives enough space that there is breathing room for more comfortable carry.

 

[akodo]

look, I am a heavyweight myself, I understand. That still doesn't mean that a .22LR from a 2 inch barrel is going to perform miracles.

Jam it in your cleavage if you have to, just find a way to carry something bigger.

check out a fanny pack swung so it is actually over the FANNY. Yes, this may add an extra second or two as you must twist the fanny pack back around to a reachable position, but I think it is worth it

What about thunderwear? Belly bands, where you access the firearm by opening the buttons on your shirt and reaching in?

what about pocket carry?
carry in the back pocket of jeans using a pocket holster

Wear skirts not pants? When my mom made my sister's wedding dress, she put unobtrusive pockets it it, so you can put pockets ANYWERE

Confident shirt from Kramer?
http://www.kramerleather.com/products.cfm?categoryID=21

I don't think you should give up on shoulder holsters, my understanding is that many women have problems with ones designed for men, find one designed for women and you may have success

Try a horizontal shoulder rig.

I know paxton quigly used to sell a 'superbra' that had a holster in it,but I don't see that on her sight now, some googlefu would probably turn it up

here is something similar

http://www.c-rusty.com/pages/holsters/Ladies.html

 

[TimboKhan]

I have to say that I disagree with a lot of whats being said here. Of course there are better guns around than what 3killerB has mentioned, but it strikes me as ridiculous that we are insisting she carry something bigger despite the obvious physical discomfort. "Stick it in your cleavage" probably isn't a particularly helpful remark, dudes.

That being said, 3KillerB, there IS a 9mm that would be suitable for you, but it's expensive and your going to have to deal with some recoil: The Rohrbaugh. http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/product/prod_set.html

As far as carry goes, there are a number of options that you could do that wouldn't require sticking pistols into your cleavage or altering your lifestyle. The fanny pack idea isn't bad, but my guess is that the strap would prove uncomfortable for you. What might work out great for you is either a purse with a holster, or perhaps one of the dayplanner/holster things that float around. The nice thing about those methods of carry is that it will allow you to expand your search to bigger guns, which is important only because it gives you more options.

In the end, if all you can carry is a .22, I suggest 2 things: Shoot it a lot to make sure it functions and shoot it a lot to make sure you can hit exactly what your aiming at. If your going to use a .22, shot placement is absolutely CRITICAL to any chance of success. Luckily for you, considerable practice can be done cheaply and enjoyably, so thats a plus.

 

[RonE]

The pistol you are looking at is a copy of a Beretta. Look for a used Beretta Minx I believe is what it was called.

 

[3KillerBs]

@-v-,
Thank you. The idea of aftermarket grips for the Kel-tec sounds promising enough that I will definitely see if I can try some in the gun shop to see how that feels.

I went to a gun show and handled every gun I thought even remotely likely so I did handle some Glocks. I found that the wide, square grips (as opposed to the rounded grips of the Berettas and Tauruses), fit badly in my hand and that I couldn't reach the triggers without shifting out of an optimum grip.

I can't wear a belt and almost never wear non-elastic waistbands. If I'm understanding right both IWB and OWB holster depend on a wide, stiff belt for support. But I have seen a promising suggestion for using a Smartcarry as if it were an IWB in just that position.

 

[3KillerBs]

@akodo,
It was a horizontal rig. I'm so short-waisted the butt of the gun, not the barrel, was brushing my hips.

 

[3KillerBs]

@TimboKhan,
Thank you for the respect of believing what I'm saying.

I don't want to carry a .22, despite the perfect fit of those grips in my hand. I want to carry a 9mm.

I guess the answer to my question of "Does this gun exist?" is "No, really small guns are either chambered in very small calibers or are flat things with blade-like grips and made from plastic."

 

[lee n. field]

Try and handle a CZ-82. Handfilling grip, nice ergonomic controls.

 

[MICHAEL T]

my PT 22 been back to factory lit strikes and has broken 2 set of the cheap plastic grips All this in less than 50 rounds. Its junk. Beretta makes the real one in 25 auto Relieable and accurate. Better than a 22 that jams .
Bersa CC in 380 might be worth a look also

 

[KyJim]

As others have noted, the small Taurus guns do not have a great reputation for reliability. The Beretta Tomcat in .32 acp is an adequate defense round given the limitations under which you are operating. Another choice is the Seecamp .32 which can be a little hard to find but it has a good reputation and MSRP is $446. Their .380 is considerably higher priced.

Info at http://www.seecamp.com/products.htm
More photos at http://www.seecamp.com/photos.htm

Any centerfire handgun this small is going to have some bite to it when you fire it. For defensive purposes, you won't need to put tons of rounds down the range (though more is always better). You need to practice enough to be familiar with the gun and be able to shoot it without thinking. I don't mean to react brainlessly but if you decide to shoot, you shouldn't have to think about how to take the safety off or whether there is even a safety. Accuracy should be COM (Center of Man) at 10 yards.

 

[Pat Cannon]

A carry method that might work you is the Clipdraw. I used it on a Ruger SP101 revolver which is heavier than most anything on your list, and it worked without a belt. I'd guess it would work even better with a lightweight revolver or a Kel-Tec. Once installed, it's more convenient to use than any holster, and it's inexpensive enough to try out if you're not sure.

Good luck with your quest!

 

[3KillerBs]

@Pat Cannon,
I can't tell from the article, does that device include some method of covering the trigger until its drawn?

 

[MachIVshooter]

I really think the Beretta Tomcat, NAA Gaurdian or Seecamp are the guns that will fit you needs without breaking the bank. Of the 3, I've found the Tomcat most pleasant to fire and most accurate; the NAA and Seecamp guns are DAO with very stiff triggers, and the short grips make it difficult to keep the muzzle up while pulling the trigger. The Tomcat is DA/SA with 7+1 capacity. Height and length are similar to the P3AT, but it is much wider.

The Rorbaugh that has been mentioned is the only 9mm in it's class, but if money is an issue, a $1,000 piece may not be practical. You can buy a ton of .32 or .380 ammo for the $650 price difference from a Tomcat to a Rorbaugh.

Here is a photo of all my mouse guns. The Tomcat is to the left of 12 O'clock. Next one clockwise is a French .25, and the one after that is a Beretta 950, which is very close in size to the Taurus you like.

 

[Just Jim]

Have you tried a glock 26??

jj

 

[3KillerBs]

Any input on the Taurus model 85 revolver in 38 special?

It seems to be about at the maximum size I think I can conceal. When I went to the gun show a few weeks ago every Taurus I picked up from the PT 92 on down, except for the 1911's and one model of Millenium Pro, had that same beautifully fitted feel in my hand.

 

[kd7nqb]

I would suggest a Ruger LCP since it does not have the same grip feel that a P3AT has but you ruled out .380 in that case the little Kahr PM9 might be your best option. The little kel-tec 9mm's can be useful too.

Have you thought about ankle carry?

 

[retgarr]

I would give a +1 to the surplus pistols like the CZ82 and the makarov. The makarov is a bit thinner but if you take an extra mag it should be ok. An extra mag is pocketable. The CZ82 is very comfortable though. And 9x18 can be had cheaply. It's also a bit more powerful than .380. As for carry, fanny packs can be worn to the side if that's an option. Other than that I'd suggest smart carry.

 

[Tribal]

Several people have brought up the PM9 with a Hogue grip, and let me say +1 to that and add that the extended magazine makes a world of difference in control. If you do this, splurge on the factory night sights.

A cheap alternative would be a NAA Mini-Revolver in .22WMR. Grips with a metal clip are available from Dark Sun and when I wear it inside my jeans the only reason I know I'm wearing it is because I remember that I put it there.

 

[mljdeckard]

I would have said, maybe 15 years ago, that to carry a good sub-compact pistol, you had to use an inferior caliber. Not anymore. I would give a serious look at a Glock Subcompact, a Springfield Armory EMP, or the Para-Ordnance Hawg line.

Also, consider a fanny pack, it lets you carry pretty much anything you want to.