Does This Gun Exist?

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Have you actually fired a Kel-Tec P-11?

No, I have not.

I've now compiled the list of guns I need to try to borrow or rent in order to fire them and see what I like best.

The list is:
S&W LadySmith revolver and semi-auto
Other S&W Chief's Special, J-frame revolvers
Kel-Tec P11 -- with the slip-on grips if possible
Kel-Tec PF9 -- with the slip-on grips if possible
Taurus 85 revolver
AMT Back-Up if a 9mm can be found.

And I'll keep the list open for other possibilities. :)
 
There is a good writeup in the latest Gun Tests mag about what a replica Ruger's little gun is of the Kel-Tec.
 
i owned a beretta .22 - i loved to carry it but it jammed so much i couldn't get comfortable with the idea of using it as a defense weapon - it didn't matter what i ran through it - it jammed! I would suggest getting a kel-tec 9mm and then buying the .22 to practice with - that should keep you under $500 - i think my kel tec and .22 cost me around $400 for both - but alas - i sold the .22 cause - well - i just can't stand a gun that jams all the time
 
Ten minutes ago I got to handle a gun that's right at my theoretical maximum of 6" long and 4.25" high. I've called that size right because that disappears nicely into the hollow in front of my hipbone or under my right breast where a belly band would hold it. I'll take the magazine out of it tomorrow, clear the chamber, and try it with a couple outfits to see if it prints.

It is, btw, an older model, S&W .22 and we have to give it back early next week.
 
With the aid of a borrowed gun that measured just over 6 inches long and 4 1/4 high -- my theoretical maximum size -- and a belly band/smartcarry improvised out of an ace bandage and some scrap cloth I was able to test to see if theory and reality agreed.

In this outfit with the gun in the higher, belly band position I was fine standing but printed sitting:
Conceal3.jpg
Conceal6.jpg
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In this outfit, again with the gun in the higher position, the gun could only be seen when I leaned back with my arms out:
ConcealNascar3.jpg
ConcealNascar1.jpg


In the lower, smartcarry position the fahionable, babydoll tanks are made to conceal:
Concealtank4.jpg
Concealtank6.jpg

And with the gun in that same, dropped position, even a tucked shirt it feasible if I'm wearing a gathered skirt:
Concealtucked2.jpg


I believe that I've called the size just right because with the gun in the dropped position the barrel touched but did not poke into my leg when I sat and in the higher position, with the large amount of barrel-forward cant that I needed to keep the sights out of my ribs, the butt stuck out just enough to print if I twisted around even in the loosest shirt.

Now I have to decide on save the money for that 9mm or .38special that measures no larger than 6" by 4.25". :)
 
Agreed. The blue tank works; the gathered skirt works, at least from the way they appear on a computer screen.

It looks like you're following a good testing procedure; thanks for your clear descriptions.
 
Had to look real hard to see the printing. I usually carry a firearm rather larger than I should be able to conceal, and I found that for me, the nature of the shirt is the most important factor. Plaid or paisley shirts, for example, have patterns and lines that break up the outline of any printing. Like in your blue shirt photo. Try some out. You'll probably also find that some textures and fabrics handle differently than others. For me, linen cotton/poly blends work the best.
 
Oooooh, a guy from Colorado taking a swipe at a North Carolinian's choice of NASCAR drivers - this thread could heat up. :D
 
The only major problem I saw is that your evidently a Kyle Busch fan!

:D

I fell for him in his second Busch race.

BTW -- I live in NC but I am from Pittsburgh and got into Nascar while living in Taxachusetts.

But being able to conceal while wearing my Nascar gear is important to me. :)
 
I have the Beretta version in .25acp and believe it or not it's never had a hiccup even if hollow points are fed to it.
 
Now I have to decide on save the money for that 9mm or .38special that measures no larger than 6" by 4.25".

There are definitely guns out there that will fit into your criteria. Good luck! Let us know what you settle on.

And Smartcarry is a great carry option. I use one, have for years. Much better than most fanny packs.
 
FWIW Smart carry is never an option for me. In the heat of Texas Summers, one more thing wrapped around my middle is just another sweat making device. Fanny packs are not as common as they once were so they stand out more... and they get in the way!

Pocket carry has really become attractive to me during the Summer months. Other than that I use a Grandfather Oak Kydex SOB for my Kel Tec
 
Had another gun-fondling, er, research trip to a couple gun shops today. Mainly in search of DD's .22 revolver, but I took the opportunity to handle some potential carry guns.

I saw and handled the Kahr P9 and thought it a bit top-heavy empty and, while small enough to conceal, the controls were a bit awkward.

The Taurus Millenium Pro sat well enough in my hand, but I couldn't reach the controls and when I got the slide locked back I couldn't manage to release it. The shop owner had to do it for me.

I eliminated the Kel-Tec P11. How can a gun that small still manage to be too big? Its the same problem as the 1911's -- everything is too far away and I can't reach.

I didn't get to handle the PF9.

I got to handle a LadySmith and another S&W J-frame, .38 special. The LadySmith is OK except that the trigger is extremely heavy in double action. The regular J-frame is not only extremely heavy in double action, its also hard to cock and, like every S&W except the LadySmith, everything feels just a little too big. (My DH has smallish hands for a man and they are exactly the same shape as mine, just about 15% larger -- S&W's always feel perfect in his hands).

If I were going to choose based on feel alone I'd absolutely pick the Taurus 85, .38 special revolver. The grips are perfect in my hand. The trigger is the perfect distance. I can reach and cock the hammer easily. The trigger is heavy enough to feel safe about it in double action and nearly as smooth as my Mark III in single action. Held against my side it vanished curves into curves. The sights, well, its a snubby revolver and you can't ask for much on those. The negatives are that I don't like shooting revolvers and the 5-shot capacity.

And just because I can't resist the thing, I fondled a Taurus PT-92 again. After wrestling with the Kahr, the Millenium Pro, and the Kel-Tec I easily dropped the magazine, worked the slide, locked it back, and put it all right again. Why can I handle that monster when I can't manage the little ones? I WILL have one of those when I can afford it. It sticks to my hand and doesn't want to be put down.

DD, despite shooting so well with the Single Six, has decided that its too hard to cock and has decided that the one gun in the world for her is the S&W Model 63 Kit Gun and that she can live with the black rubber grips since wooden replacement grips would cost $50. The problem being that it would be the most expensive gun in the house and double the price we allotted for her gun. I'll be searching online for used ones and strongly doubt I'm likely to find something.
 
3KBs--

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm a roundish middle aged man who just got his carry permit, and I'm trying to find a pocket gun that I can carry without being obvious.

I really respect the way you've researched this topic.

Good luck.
 
You're welcome.

I've got a naturally systematic mind and a budget that won't tolerate making any mistakes so I have to think things through. :D

If, like most men, your hands are larger than mine you won't be quite as tightly restricted by the inability to operate certain guns. The Millenium Pro was looking like a very good candidate until I discovered that I couldn't lock the slide without a 3rd hand.

But I got a lot of suggestions for a lot of guns and I'm very grateful for all the input from people with more experience than I have.
 
I'd absolutely pick the Taurus 85, .38 special revolver. The grips are perfect in my hand.

And don't forget, grips are easy to swap out on revolvers, and you get a greater variety of shapes available (because you don't have to work around a magazine well that has to be in a certain place).
 
Fit is a critical component to picking the right weapon. To me, it may be the most important component.

If the Taurus fits your hand and your needs, then it just might be the right one.
 
Just Friday I got to shoot a .38special in a snubby revolver for the first time.. I was pleasantly surprised to find that there was no feeling of shock or impact in my hands -- it pushed the gun off target and I put it right back on. It didn't move around any more than DH's M&P did (though I have a suspicion that, since it was wadcutter bullets, it may have been a low-power, target loading).

It wasn't the Taurus, but I got to test the important part of making sure that I can handle and control that sort of gun.

Single action my shots were all in the X at 5 yards but double action is definitely going to take some practice to get happy about it.
 
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