Ever had to put your hand on your gun "for real"?...

[expvideo]

Yes. A few times. Never had to shoot.

Something that bothers me is the sentiment that "you shouldn't pull it out if your not going to use it". I was taught by my father that you should never pull a gun if you weren't willing and needing to fire it, and if you weren't willing to fire it, you shouldn't be carrying it. This is a good standard to go by, and in almost every one of my situations I was willing and needing to fire when I reached for the gun. By the time it got out, it was a different story.

It's been my experience that predators will immediately lose interest in you the moment they realize that you aren't the weak antilope. Basically, it's been my experience that the moment you stop being an easy target, is the same moment the BG changes his mind about making you a victim. At least that's my experience.

Moving on, I suppose to keep this post on topic I should share a story. I don't like sharing these, but I'll open up since everyone else has....
Once upon a time, in a small town called North Bend, WA, I was filling up my gas tank at the gas station in town. It was about 10:30 at night and I wasn't too worried about anything happening. As i was finishing up, I saw a couple of the baggy pants types exit the bar that shared the same parking lot. They drunkenly stumbled in my general direction, and stopped at the car behind me to mess with a very frightened lady. She was able to get away from them, and at this point I was in my own car, hiding my Sig under my folded jacket on my lap, and hoping to get out ASAP without a confrontation. They walked past my car and one of the guys decided that he wanted to fight me (god only knows why) and started yelling obscenities at me. I had made it less than 10 yards from the pumps when he decided he would start something with me. I had left my window down about one inch, because my passenger was smoking a cigarette before we had gotten to the gas station. i should have thought about this.
His friend stood in front of my car (somewhat incoherent of the situation, he was very drunk), so I couldn't go forward, and there wasn't much room to go backwards either. He told me to get out of the car and tried the locked handle. I told him to get away from my car, but he persisted. He grabbed the window and told me to get out again. At this point his friend had gotten out of the way, so I started to drive away. He held onto the window and ran with the car, and I was affraid of the legal reprecussions of dragging him into the street, so I stopped the car. This is where it got really bad. He leaned backwards while holding the window, shattering it all over me, getting a small shard in my eye (no injury thank god). At this point I lifted the 9mm and yelled "Step away from the car!" He said "What are you going to do, shoot me?" I saw the gas pumps behind him (safety rule #4) but I was about to answer his question anyway when his friend grabbed him and pulled him away from my car. I floored it and flagged down a passing deputy, who promptly apprehended the two drunk gangstas.

Anyway, it was an interesting night, but nobody got hurt, and replacing the window was rather cheap. I learned a valuable lesson that night about situational awareness though! I also made a mental note that drunks aren't always affraid of bullets.

 

[Trebor]

This is a good standard to go by, and in almost every one of my situations I was willing and needing to fire when I reached for the gun. By the time it got out, it was a different story.

Exasctly. You were *willing* to use it, and you *intended* to use, but by just pulling it out, the situation changed so you no longer *had* to use it.

I wish more people understood this. If I hear one more person say something like , "If you pull it, you have to shoot, or you'll be in trouble," I'll scream.

If you pull it, and you the situation changes so you don't have to shoot, DON'T SHOOT!

 

[Dorryn]

I dont know if I should be sad or glad that I dont have any stories like these. I am "willing" to use my CCW, but nothing ive experienced has lead me to believe drawing was warranted, although I have been nervous at times in certain neighborhoods.

 

[javacodeman]

Very Recently In Fact...

Just moved into a new home with a second story. First night there. Wife and I are asleep. My wife wakes up on hearing a noise; I'm still dead to the world. After a few minutes of her trying to wake me (I am a sound sleeper) she finally conveys these facts to me: 1) She heard a noise and 2) She wants me to investigate. (She was actually at our door about to investigate herself when I finally came to.) So I say, "Sure I'll investigate, but I don't clear a house without my gun." So I get my gun (no I'm not telling you from where ) and go investigate--for you safety czars, on safety with finger outside the trigger guard. My wife is close behind. As I am becoming more and more conscious I ask her what kind of noise she heard. She says that it was a motor sound, kind of like a vacuum cleaner. Now I am confused. I say, do we even have the vacuum moved yet? The answers is no. By this time we make it into the kitchen and I here "Kachunk, kachunk" as ice falls into the freezer. We both start laughing and I tell her that I'll shoot the ice maker if she wants me to.

Thoughts on the situation...I didn't really think we had an intruder, because our alarm didn't sound. This may have allowed me to let my wife accompany me. Next time, I think I will demand she stay put regardless.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

If you pull it, and you the situation changes so you don't have to shoot, DON'T SHOOT!

I completely agree. It annoys me to hear people say "I'll never show my gun unless I am going to use it". Some questions for those who say that:
-what if a child runs in front of (or behind) your target?
-what if the attacker drops his weapon and surrenders?
-what if officers show up to dismantle the situation?

Seriously, bringing your gun into view does not, in itself, require that the trigger be pulled. Intending and needing to use the gun is understandable, but things change and we must react quickly.

Bullets are hard to "take back".

 

[Jimbo1]

Seriously, bringing your gun into view does not, in itself, require that the trigger be pulled. Intending and needing to use the gun is understandable, but things change and we must react quickly.

Couldn't be more correct. Once I actually had to draw.

Last halloween, I was at a defensive pistol competition at my local range. Went outside to smoke. One wanna-be thug was leaning against a pole in the parking lot, and another came walking around the corner and stopped and turned around when he saw us. The guy I went out with starts walking towards the cars on the side, me about 4 ft behind. Round the corner, there is third thug IN my car. Out comes SS 1911. Thug in car, backs out and shows his hands, so I re-holstered.

When someone is caught committing a crime, that is when they will draw if armed, I didn't know, so I drew when I saw him in the car. When I saw that he was no danger, I holstered. But what bothered me was the cops that came to take the 3 to jail made a point of telling me that if I would have fired, I wouldn't have been charged. I don't believe that legally or morally, and I feel my actions then were correct.

 

[BenjaminR]

But what bothered me was the cops that came to take the 3 to jail made a point of telling me that if I would have fired, I wouldn't have been charged.

The prosecuting attorney would probably think differently.

I don't believe that legally or morally, and I feel my actions then were correct.

Amen. There was absolutely no reason to shoot them given the information.

 

[Jimbo1]

The prosecuting attorney would probably think differently.

I believe he(Officer) meant while his(thug) hands were under the dash level from my sight. Not after thug backed out of the car.

 

[Avenger]

I've drawn twice now, and fired once.
The first time was when I was younger. A pair of would-be car thieves tried to run me over, and I put three rounds into their car as I was scrambling to avoid being hit. In retrospect, I probably wasn't in as much danger as I thought at the time, but the responding officers felt I handled it appropriately at the time.
The second time I drew was at a friend's house. He'd had a few break-ins recently, and had actually walked in on the thieves twice, so we were both a little keyed up. We got back late at night, and as we were walking into his garage, we scared his cat, which popped out of a broken window right beside my head and jumped to the ground at my feet. All I saw was a sudden pale streak moving from a dark shadow right at me, with a horrible noise coming from it. You know the scene from "Alien"? This was WORSE, I ended up with the shakes for a good 20 minutes. That kitty will never know just how close he came to having to start over again on life #2.

 

[kungfuhippie]

I've been following this thread. I've put off trying to get my CCW because of the difficulty in California. I've been carrying knife and pepper spray more recently. Today I finally got persuaded to get my permit, I'll be signing up for the class ASAP. I was taking some things to the printer for work about two hours ago. On the way out I had about 40lbs or papers in my arms. The printer is in a decent industrial area near the office. As I was getting in my car there were three gang member types about 25 yards away and they started to taunt/harrass me. I didn't do anything to escalate the situation and continued to get into my car mentally noting which pocket my buck knife was in and which pocket my pepper spray was in. One of the thugs came over to my car as I shut the door and tried to leave quickly, he proceeded to insult my race, question my sexuality, and the color of my neck all while inviting me to fight with him "like a man". I told he to leave and that I'd call the cops. He struck the window of my car as I was starting it and I left quickly while the other two threw rocks at my car. I called the printer as I drove away and explained what happened. They assured me that they'd call the security guard and police, I said I'd call 911 too. After 30 minutes of being on hold with 911 I hung up.

I believe that God was telling me that I have the tools to protect myself and I need to do my part too (get my CCW). I know that God protected me from anything worse, but I feel it was a warning.

So not my hand on the gun, but if I was packing it would have been. While starting car hand was on the pepper spray and the knife was next to it.

 

[Eyesac]

About a week after I got my CCW (literally) I was leaving a supermarket with my wife. A Mexican dude (looked like an 80's Mexican gangster with a leather jacket and gold chains ), followed us to our car, we get to our car and he's probably 7yards behind us (not far at all) I get my key in the door and turn to ask him what he wants and he says a whole bunch in spanish (of which I do not speak, but I'm kind of used to it as I am half asian/white and am often mistaken for a spanish speaker), I told him I didn't understand and he took a step closer... now it's me and him sandwiched between two cars and he's getting closer and he's got both his hands in his pockets, I kept telling him that I don't know what he's saying and telling him to beat it, but he's just standing there... he takes a step closer and I sweep my shirt out of the way to ease the drawing of my pistol and step back (I carry strong side behind the hip) and he just stands there looking at me for like 15 seconds as if deciding what to do, and then turns and walks away. I have no idea what he had in mind, but I had a real bad feeling and my wife was freaked out (I just can't imagine what she would do alone in a situation like that), but it all worked out, I never touched my firearm and everything was fine... I don't imagine following anyone to their car at night in any country is a cool thing to do...

 

[hueytaxi]

Unfortunately yes on two occasions here in the USA. In one I was totally wrong and the other I also could have been arrested had the circumstances been different, even though both probably prevented injury to myself or others. Outside the USA, this happened all too infrequently. Either myself or my crew. Never a proud moment, only a thankful one.

 

[gm]

Yup in funny sort of way. The threat wasnt 2 legged but rather 4.It was a whitetail buck that I walked up on while I was checking traps.Horns and front legs are the first thing I saw combined with that apple tree.


The other time was when a bunch of punks were trying to get into my Gmas country house, it was the second time she had heard the noises so I stayed over for a weekend.I heard the noises and turned on the lights outside and waited,stepped outside briefly & went back inside.No more sounds for about a month so I didnt stay over anymore.They came back again when I wasnt there in a group and made it into the interior garage through a screen window and were trying to get the house door open.She called and said she could see them from the window,this time as clear as day,porch lights on and everything.I could hear them in the background beating on the door.She had already called the neighbor and the police.

long story short,they got caught.Several males and one in a car parked on an abandoned road across the street with a gun,he was just a kid.They had weapons setting by each door and by the window.The crawford county sherriffs dept now sits in the once empty field where they got the last one as he tried to escape into the field,down to the freeway.


They knew I had a gun and was ready for me to step out this time had I been there.I guess they thought it would be quick and didnt count on her dog barking and the telephone.It could have ended very tradgically had I been there.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Yes. Put my hand on the grip one time a few years back. The other party changed his mind about whatever it was he was up to. Didn't end up actually having to present the weapon.

 

[michiganfan]

No hope I never have to

 

[tuckerdog1]

Yes, just once. Didn't have to actually draw. The act of reaching for it made the trouble turn around & depart at a high rate of speed.

Tuckerdog1

 

[230RN]

Thrice

(I) Mid sixties, Sixth Avenue and Cascade in Boulder Co,when and where it was supposedly OK to leave your car open. I'd left everything open including the windows. I thought I saw someone in my car out on the street, got my 1917 Colt in .45 ACP, but loaded with about 12 gr of 2400 behind a 255gr .45 Colt bullet in a ballon head .45 AR case. It was a published load, lest ye cringe and gasp and tremble in fear, and it roared like a cannon. (Yes, I know the .45 Colt bullet is a couple of thou bigger than the .452 ACP bullet, but so did the author who published the load.)

I went outside, determined that indeed there was someone messing around the ignition switch, brought the gun up at him, and hollered "freeze!" He didn't, but saw the gun, jumped out of the car, and ran down the street, cowboy boot heels going click-click-click-click.

OK, remember I was 25 years old, never had any training as far as the legal aspects were concerned, but was pretty deadly on running jackrabbits with that monster load.

So there I was, planning my shot as he ran away, waiting for him to get under the streetlight down the block, cooly noting that he would be crossing in front of an enormous rock which would stop the bullet in case it went through, tracking him with the right lead, and all of a sudden I said to myself, "Now wait a minute, all the guy was trying to do was steal my car."

So there he was, running click-click-click down the street in his cowboy boots. I pointed the gun down at the soft lawn and let one go into the dirt.

BOOM!

Now I lived right under the Flatirons in Boulder, and that shot echoed off the mountains like an artillery shell.

And his steps instantly quickened to clicketyclicketyclickety at the sound.

Called the cops, they came by, took a report, and didn't bother much about the fact that I'd fired a shot in the city limits... but this was back in the mid-sixties.

So I know that deep inside me, I would have the good sense to not actually shoot someone unless it were absolutely necessary. And I hope it never comes to that.

As far as I know that 255 gr slug showing the typical Colt left-hand rifling marks is still about 12" below the grass at the southeast corner of Sixth and Cascade, and if you've got a metal detector, maybe you can dig it up. And maybe that guy decided that maybe hot-wiring Chevvies was maybe not a good career choice. Maybe.

(II) More recently, right after I got my CCW, I stopped at the bank to cash a check, and because of my recent training in CCW class on situational awareness, noticed a disreputable-looking young man hanging around behind the 7-11 which backed up to the bank. Noted torn jeans, grey hooded sweatshirt, brown beard, dirty sneakers, and went into the bank carrying.

Didn't see him on the way out, while I was carrying a hefty hunk of cash, so got in my car, and then noticed him coming toward my car --he must have been sitting in some juniper bushes. I carry cross-draw and put my hand on my little Llama .380 under my coat just in case, told him to get back, and he said, "Just wondered if you had any loose change, man."

"I have nothing for you, go away," and he went back to the 7-11. I was amazed at the confident authority in my voice due to the fact that I was prepared.

I went back into the bank to let someone know there might be someone harassing the customers and the bank manager said they'd seen him out there bothering people and they'd called the police but they hadn't shown up yet.

She asked if I was OK, and I said sure, but then she followed me outside to look around. I mentioned that I thought every non-felonious woman ought to have "one of these," and pulled out my wallet to show her my CCW. (It was new, after all, and I was prouder than h3ll of it. and the Jefferson County permit is real pretty.)

She said she'd seen it before, because when I use the drive-up window I pull the whole plastic package of IDs, insurance cards, etc. out of my wallet and send it up the vacuum tube with my paperwork, since sometimes the tellers can't really see the individuals in the cars.

She said she had thought about it, and I told her if she felt comfortable about it, I could e-mail some information on CCW, and she said she'd like to see it and gave me her e-dress. Don't know if she ever followed up on it, but two out of the four ladies I've introduced to CCW at work have actually gotten theirs. (Back-pat, back-pat.)

(III) Month ago: Heard a terrific racket at 3AM out back of my apartment, sounded like gawd-knows what, but highly suspicious, like maybe someone breaking into a screen door, went to investigate with light and 1911, found nothing.

A couple of days later the same noise occured in the daytime, while I was on my balcony. It was a half-melted plug of ice letting go and falling-banging down the rain gutter downspouts. Whew! Mystery solved. Better be safe than sorry.

And, thank the Deities, those are the only times I had to touch my weapon in a real or potential "situation."

Hope I never have to again.

 

[chipp]

I drew on a dog once. There was a 130lb rotty in the yard next to where we were working. He was attatched to a long close line size rope. Can you believe it. The plumber came buy and was looking at the roof to find the vent pipe. He steped into the neibors yard. As i warned him about the dog he sees it and runs back into the yard. Of corse the dog easily snaps the rope. and is barreling at us. A drew my gun and as he got to the property line yelled as loud as i could. Glad he stopped cause I'm not so sure the 22 would have stopped him. For some reason I was holding the gun at my hip. with my left arm shielding it.
Think he knew what a gun was?

 

[Travis Lee]

I was delivering pizza in the 'hood in Milwaukee, one winter-time... I was standing at a door, and one scruffy looking guy diverted from the course he was walking, aiming for me, SMILING... I maintained eye contact, with my not-friendly face, I reached in and put my hand on my pistol, in my shoulder holster.... whereupon he instantly headed back on his course.

Funny, he wasn't smiling then.



--Travis--

 

[RocketMan]

I had the displeasure one fine evening in 1976, as oncoming Regimental Corporal of the Guard, to find myself walking into the middle of a riot between the airwingers and grunts on base. As the night progressed, this devolved into a race riot.
Long story short, because of stupid decisions by the OoD, myself and the guard driver ended up alone on a basketball court behind a three story barracks. Two guys came charging out the back door at us. One decided to peel off around the side of the barracks and run off, the driver giving chase, leaving me alone on the basketball court.
The second person, with an unknown object in his hands, went for cover behind an electrical box that controlled the lights on the court. This caused my heart to go pitter-pat, as each barracks had an armory room, and some folks stored their personal weapons there, too.
Because of prior events I already had my 1911 in my hand. Aiming at the electrical box, I told the person hiding behind it to come out slowly, hands visible, etc.
Luckily, he did everything right. He lived through the evening, and so did I.
It turned out he had a bunkbed spacer in his hand, one of those inch thick, foot long metal pipes. I just couldn't make it out in the dark at the distance between us before he took cover. Maybe he had second thoughts about bringing a club to a gunfight.

 

[spacejunkiehsv]

I almost had to use my shotgun once.

We had a guy that the cops were looking for knock on our door at midnight one night, and I live in the country. I had seen and heard the cops driving around the streets enclosing a pasture across my road. So, I was on the way to get my shotgun when I heard the knock at the door. It scared the crap out of me.

I approached the door with the shotgun ready to fire, pointing at him through the door's french glass, maybe 3 feet away. The guy said he was out of gas and wanted to come in and use our phone. I told him that we would dial a number for him. We got a name and number, called the person, and that person picked him up. We immediately dialed 911 and they went to his house (lived with parents) and arrested the guy. He was in his bed, fully dressed, with a bloody knife in his hand. The cops almost had to shoot him, but he dropped the knife after a little "in room" talking.

I was ready to shoot the bastard if he tried to get inside our house. He seemed really calm though, sounded drunk actually. He's now in jail, awaiting trial. They also found blood on our doorbell (doorbell didn't work).

It turns out he had stabbed a guy to death on his back porch when investigating why his dogs were barking outside. The criminal was high and charged the guy when he came outside. The victim went outside without any kind of weapon. poor guy

 

[thexrayboy]

I had a couple of encounters prior to getting CCW but since getting one
I had three occasions where the hand went to the grip of the weapon.

Once, when I was younger and still willing to abuse my self by jogging I was doing a couple of miles with my youngest who was about 6 at the time accompanying me on her bike. We rounded a corner and a big nasty rottweiler mix came charging at her from around a car in a driveway. I immediately put my hand on the grip of a Glock in my fanny pack and told the owners on the front porch if their dog got within 5 feet it was dead. They called it off and threatened to call the sheriff on me. I said go right ahead and then proceeded to finish my run.

Second time was late one night about 1 AM. I had stopped at a local convenience store on the way home from work to get a soda. I walked in, past a young girl at the counter trying to buy cigarettes. She had no ID and the clerk would not sell them to her. She got huffy and stormed out. I proceeded to the cooler section to make my selection when a young man
walked in and started threatening the clerk behind the counter while holding a knife. He didn't wave it at the clerk but it was held in an position that made it look like it could be a factor if he chose to employ it. While he was ranting at the clerk for not selling his girl friend cigarettes I stepped out from behind a row of merchandise. I had my coat held back and my hand on the grip at the 3 o'clock position. He turned his head, looked at me, started to say something to me and then his eyes dropped a bit. He apparently saw he was outmatched as he immediately turned and ran out of the store and around the corner of the building. I finished my transaction, asked the clerk if they needed any more assistance and upon being told " thank you but I'll be fine" I left and went on my merry way.

The only other time I was in "the city" with the wife. We had gone to attend a concert and were leaving. We were walking across the parking lot to our car when a couple of less than savory characters pointedly asked her if she might consider favoring them with her company rather than waste her time with me. She stepped back and behind me. I placed my hand on the grip of my weapon and lit them up with a surefire and asked if they had anything further to say. They declined to make further conversation. We then continued on our way to the car all the while keeping an eye on the two to make sure they did not circle around.

Have never actually had to draw. Hope I never have to. Come close enough to know the feeling you get when the adrenaline wears off.

 

[glocktoberfest]

I wish more people understood this. If I hear one more person say something like , "If you pull it, you have to shoot, or you'll be in trouble," I'll scream.

in the state of Florida , you pull a weapon on someone , that's aggravated assault ( 3 yrs ) . Lets review : You pull gun on not so nice guy because ( insert reason ) , not so nice guy calls cops , "this guy pulled a gun on me ". cops search you , find gun , guess who's going to jail ? Did not so nice guy commit crime ? No , you did . I guess as long as the guy you pull it on doesn't call the cops , your OK . If your going to use deadly force ( gun ) to STOP A THREAT you must fear for your life or the life of others . Scum bags standing around talking crap is not a reason to flash/point a gun . That's a very good reason to exit the area asap .

 

[Travis Lee]

"not so nice guy".... "standing around talking crap"....

If THAT is the most threatening situation you've ever been in, I'm not surprised you put it in such terms.

Some of us have seen the elephant, some of us have battled the elephant, and some of us have been lucky to survive getting stomped by the elephant.

Some of us actually understand that so called "trash talk" is just part of the "interview process" bad guys use to calculate how much, (if any) trouble/fun you are going to give them. Sometimes there is "mad dogging", sometimes a show to witnesses that you "dissed" them, sometimes insults and catcalls about your woman to see if you have any cajones, or provoke you to rage before you know how your enemies are deployed, sometimes no dialogue at all.

You think you'll "just walk away", yeah... good luck with that, what you don't GET is that the fight is already ON, and you are seconds from getting the memo.

You didn't see a knife or gun so you figure it's not there? One loud mouth is raging at you for staring at his woman, or "looking at him"? Yeah, distraction so you don't notice the two thugs who are flanking you or coming up behind.

They aren't just itching for a fight, they are here to HUNT. Maybe they want your money and valuables, maybe they want to abuse your woman, maybe they just want to pound you down for the sheer sadistic pleasure of hurting you.

When stuff like this comes up, you are not dealing with "not nice" people or "having an argument", these are PREDATORS, and today, they figure you look like FOOD. Fail to miss the cues, fail to act on an educated instinct, and you'll never have a chance to worry about explaining "your side" to the police.

--Travis--

 

[sixgunner455]

Walking my Brittany yesterday, we were harrassed by a big yellow Bull/BullMastiff-type dog. Very big, muscled, and charged halfway accross the street a couple of times, followed us down the street quite a ways. I stomped, told him loudly to go home, and kept my hand in my pocket ... around the grip of my .38.

Stuff happens.