Ever wonder about other people purchasing firearms?

[iiibdsiil]

For all of you so interested:

1. Older guy filling out the form was older than gangbanger type by no more than ten years.

2. I understand spoken Spanish.

3. The purchaser doesn't know what county he supposedly lives in?

4. Really, you weren't there.

So, about half of my friends would not pass your standards. Don't judge a book by it's cover, people grow up in areas where the "gangbanger" type is the norm, thus they develop in themselves what is around them. That doesn't mean they are all gang bangers, it means that either they grew up around them, or they watch too many rap music videos.

I bet you'd probably poop yourself if I helped my dad buy a gun, a young white boy getting out of his '96 Impala SS on 22s, lowered, dark tinted windows, with my baggy pants, baggy shirt, and my 3 carat diamond and white gold bracelet on my wrist. I must be a gang banger or a drug dealer too, right? Nope, just your regular college student. You'd probably be surprised by the Tim McGraw in the CD player too, even though I've got them God-awful big subwoofers in the trunk. Please don't judge a book by it's cover.

Once again, just because you feel as though the 4473 isn't confusing in the least, I'm sure most of us have had a goof up on them. Hell, I mess up my papers at the doctors.

And what country he supposedly lives in? Is it the USA, US, The United States, The United States of America, America?

I realize that you are going to stand with your beliefs, we weren't there, so who are we to say anything. But at the same time, since it was mentioned, I believe it to be open to debate.

And, if they got past the system by doing this, then more power to them. It just proves how it does very little to combat illegal gun ownership.

 

[sierrabravo45]

I think that 4473s should go away. I think that a man should be able to go to the hardware store and lay down some cash, get his toy, and leave without so much as giving his name.

I guess I haven't been conditioned enough to be bothered by the actions in the OP.

K3,

I really got to disagree with you on your comment that you should be able to walk into a hardware store and buy what you want.

Times have changed for the worse.

So under your ruling.

Gang Members can buy guns without a background check???

People adjudicated Mentally Defective can buy guns without a background check?

Convicted Murderers out of Jail on Probation can buy guns without a background check?

Come on, think about what you are saying, the laws are there for a purpose, I know they hinder rights, but there is a point where you have to stop and say,

Maybe a background check is good.

 

[keeleon]

She wanted a pistol grip AND a black finish?? What kind of evil things is she planning?? I am glad that the store doesn't carry such a scary weapon!

It did sound a little fishy to me as well. At least she actually asked for an 870 and not just a "shotgun". I understand the "I should be able to go to the hardware store, plop my cash and walk out" mentality, but I can't imagine ever sending someone else to pick up a gun for me because I was too busy. The only instance I can think of would be if you were like, going hunting that weekend, and you didn't have a shance to pick one up. Poor planning, I know, but feasible. Other than that, I can't imagine ever saying to a friend, "Hey, I have to work late tonight, can you go pick me up an XBOX 360?" With a purchase liek that, I would want to be there, to enjoy the whole process. Of course, that's just me.

Straw purchases are, and should remain, illegal. The kids at Columbine were able to obtain at least one of the firearms used in that massacre in this fashion. The person who is buying the arm is the one who should be vetted by the background checks.

Shouldn't it just be illegal to be a restricted person with a gun? Wouldn't that be enough? If the columbine kids were to young or too crazy, or too "whatever", then that should have been the crime. Not some silly rule that states you can't buy something for someone else. I hope you don't think that the store should be responsible if this happens. We need to hold peopel accountable for the things that they do. The kids were the ones responsible for the murders, the guy they got the gun from was responsible of supplying a firearm to a restricted person, but the shop certainly was not responsible for assisting wivh a "straw purchase".

In states with very lenient transfer laws (I live in CA ), you can buy a gun, and legally sell it to someone without a BG check, right? How is a "straw purchase" ANY different? I buy a gun from the shop, I meet my freind next week, and sell it to him legally. That is technically a straw purchase, and yet nothing illegal took place.

Gang Members can buy guns without a background check???

People adjudicated Mentally Defective can buy guns without a background check?

Convicted Murderers out of Jail on Probation can buy guns without a background check?

Is it illegal for them to be in possesion of them? Felons can't own knives asfar as I am aware, and yet, they could come right into my shop and buy a whole pallet of Benchmades, and it certainly wasn't my responsibility that they broke the law. I do however agree wih background checks as a general rule, just playing devil's advocate.

 

[takhtakaal]

Too many post-adolescent panties getting bunched up around here.

3. The purchaser doesn't know what county he supposedly lives in?

And what country he supposedly lives in? Is it the USA, US, The United States, The United States of America, America?

Please, read for understanding first.

Please, read carefully.

 

[Ithaca37]

Gang Members can buy guns without a background check???

People adjudicated Mentally Defective can buy guns without a background check?

Convicted Murderers out of Jail on Probation can buy guns without a background check?

Ummm....last time I checked all of these happen. First of all, 4473 has nothing to with a background check. It is defacto registration. Second, gang members buy guns illegally all the time. Logic says that if gangsters can do it, so can crazies and convicts if there is a difference between any of them.

 

[SuperNaut]

About here is where things started to get weird. She got kind of nervous...

I too get nervous when strangers start "being helpful."

Perhaps I'm anti-social (I've definitely been accused of such) but if I want advice, I'll ask.

 

[sierrabravo45]

Ithaca,

I was responding to K3's quote.....

 

[K3]

K3,

I really got to disagree with you on your comment that you should be able to walk into a hardware store and buy what you want.

Times have changed for the worse.

So under your ruling.

Gang Members can buy guns without a background check???

People adjudicated Mentally Defective can buy guns without a background check?

Convicted Murderers out of Jail on Probation can buy guns without a background check?

Come on, think about what you are saying, the laws are there for a purpose, I know they hinder rights, but there is a point where you have to stop and say,

Maybe a background check is good.

I have thought about it. Extensively. I am a free American (so goes the theory) and I shouldn't have to pass the government's sniff test to buy an inanimate object.

Yes to all of your questions. Have times really changed so much?

Pre-68, anybody could do exactly what I am calling for. Since the advent of the '68GCA, background checks, and all the other Uncle Sugar garbage, what has happened to the crime rate, specifically violent crimes? Disregard blips and hiccups. Look at the long term trend.

New York's murder rates went down, but gun control's impact there was because it is so Draconian. In order for all of your pet permission schemes to really affect the murder rate, you have to make it nearly impossible for guns to be purchased. Even then, you'll never hit perfection. Why make it difficult even in the slightest for regular folks to buy a gun? Anything government mandated that adds even one second to the transaction is an infringement in my book.

FWIW, the crime rate, gang problems, or a coming lunar eclipse, should have no bearing on RKBA. The purpose of RKBA is very clear, and if the government is adding hoops, the entire purpose has been defeated because the fox is truly in the henhouse.

I suggest YOU think about what YOU are saying.

Freedom is risky. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Dump the 4473.

 

[WoofersInc]

As for the origional poster I've had people wonder about me at the gun store. When I bought my 50BMG th store was really crowded and several people were staring. And last night I bought a 1919A4 and I overheard a women ask her male counter-part "what the he@# would he do with that". Of course I live in Vegas and the gun stores get a large number of out of state visitors because they rent full auto and I figure it is probably people from states that restrict all the fun stuff.

 

[TEDDY]

?????

Woofer:the media has so brain washed the average person that they think all guns are illegal.as the avarage person if MGs are illegal to own and they will say yes.
up until 1980?? any one could own a gun.I believe in the western states the inmate was given his gun back when released from prison.the thought was he needed to protect himself (self defence)as any one else.restrict one person and you restrict all.thats the system the antis have used.just one little law,then another.we started with MG s and now look what we have.we cant even design our own MG any more have to buy from Belgium.
Rem sold to financial group,Rem buying Marlin,marlin owns Nea & H&R.win owned by FN.-----

 

[Dorryn]

My advice would be to MYOB.

Good advice, generally. Except sometimes, people for one reason or another do things with guns that make us all look like nuts, and create increased momentum for the antis. Virginia Tech comes to mind. Nothing wrong with having a quiet word with the gunshop owner.

Ive seen some pretty sketchy individuals looking at handguns in a local gun shop. I saw them open stuff when people weren't looking. Id be lying if I said it didnt make me a little suspicious.

 

[takhtakaal]

Ive seen some pretty sketchy individuals looking at handguns in a local gun shop. I saw them open stuff when people weren't looking. Id be lying if I said it didnt make me a little suspicious.

In my Cabela's incident, the rest of their friends were wandering around the racks of used shotguns and rifles. One of them purposefully discovered that he could open the barrels on a SxS coach gun and manage to slip his finger inside the trigger guard, despite the gun lock on it, and trigger the weapon.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiice.

 

[cmidkiff]

I gotta go with K3 on this...

Gun control laws are infringement on my rights, and are ineffective as a means of preventing crimes.

Criminals, gang members, drug dealers, the mentally ill... all of these people obtain firearms now, regardless of the laws intended to prevent them from doing so. Since the end result is that bad guys have guns, what difference does it make if they buy them in a gun store, order them from the Sears catalog, or get them on the streets?

I see no more reason to register a firearm than I see to register a book, or a newspaper. Both rights are clearly protected, and I see nothing in the constitution that would indicate governmental authority to regulate either.

Federal background checks, required federal forms, registering ownership of some types of firearms, baning or restricting certain types of arms, banning or restricting types of ammunition, limiting import of firearms and ammunition, limiting interstate sales of firearms, limiting the use of the US Postal service for shipping firearms... all of these laws exist, and every one of them interferes with our protected rights. The government has no business regulating private ownership of firearms... period.

 

[iiibdsiil]

Too many post-adolescent panties getting bunched up around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
3. The purchaser doesn't know what county he supposedly lives in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by accuser
And what country he supposedly lives in? Is it the USA, US, The United States, The United States of America, America?
Please, read for understanding first.

Please, read carefully.

Oy, my bad.

Still, is the county LA, Los Angeles? Can I put Hills instead of Hillsborough (gotta write REAL small to get Hillsborough on there). Is it Miami-Dade or Dade? yada yada yada. Maybe he thought that it was asking him for the Country AGAIN

Not accusing you of anything. All I'm saying is just because one doesn't understand how these God awful forms work (why the heck do they need to know my weight and height, which can I write in in inches, feet inch, feet in decimal, centimeters, pounds, kilograms, ounces?), and having someone that doesn't necessarily meet your standards be associated with them, doesn't mean anything. People change, kids are involved in gangs at 14 years old, yada yada yada. It's unfair to individuals to judge them based on appearance.

A ton of people make those judgments, and I'm not trying to crucify you for doing it, I'm trying to educate in hopes that maybe next time you and others that would do the same thing might think back to what I said and go "Ya know, he might be right." But, since my post adolescent panties are in a wad, my assumption that you'll stick with your opinion is probably even more true.

And please don't try to crucify me over seeing country instead of county. We all know that the human mind sees words for what they typically are, and seeing as how we discuss country more then we discuss county... Regardless of all that, it doesn't change ANYTHING that I mentioned. You just forced me to use different examples.

A guilty conscience will force one to defend things in ways that are truly irrelevant. Get off topic, the original statement doesn't come back up, you never have to admit your wrong. We all do that one too.

 

[PoconoEagle]

I'm not trying to crucify you for doing it, I'm trying to educate in hopes that maybe next time you and others that would do the same thing might think back to what I said and go "Ya know, he might be right." But, since my post adolescent panties are in a wad, my assumption that you'll stick with your opinion is probably even more true.



I love being educated by a 22 yr old with a 3 karat and car, baggy, blah,blah,blah..... lord knows those height weight rules are just plain silly.

 

[iiibdsiil]

Exactly my point Pocono. Now it's about age, my bracelet, yada yada yada. If some old man said the same thing I did, it would be taken as gold. The fact that I am young has nothing to do with any personal experiences that I have either witnessed or been a part of. The fact that you are resistant to listening to me because of the way that I dress is ridiculous. Good job taking the High Road.

Care to explain why it is necessary for them to know my height and weight? Or are you just going to add insults and nothing else to the conversation?

 

[PoconoEagle]

actually reading your other posts shows the road you are truly on son.

believe me its not your opinion that i disagree with it just your attitude.

you don't realize the disrespect you use due to ignorance of youth. grow up


maybe your doctor should guess your weight and height instead of reading it off your form. I thought college tought reading and writing. It did when I went. it is high road to point out mistakes. re-read the tact used toward you. it was adult and to the point. close mouth and open ears.....best way to learn!

 

[iiibdsiil]

The road I'm truly on? Gimme a break. You have no idea the road I'm truly on, nor where I'm from, nor how I grew up. Making a judgment call like that, without the facts is foolish.

Please explain. Send it in a PM, there's no need to keep a pissing match going. If I'm being disrespectful, I apologize. I'm open to all suggestions on how to "better my attitude," and how to become a better person. Although, like I said above, it will be hard to make that call based on not knowing anything about me besides some jibber-jabber on a message forum.

 

[PoconoEagle]

Agreed

Agreed! PM sent.

As for topic... I agree with OP and follow my gut instinct. Something sounded fishy. She may have been just nervous but it seems her nervousness spread to aware people.

 

[DragonFire]

Quote:
She wanted a pistol grip AND a black finish?? What kind of evil things is she planning?? I am glad that the store doesn't carry such a scary weapon!

It did sound a little fishy to me as well.

I know at least a dozen people who own 870's like that (mine doesn't have the pistol grip). It makes a good home-defense gun, as well as a competion shotgun. Pistol grip w/wood or black and no pistol grip would be less-fishy?

That's the mentality of the anti's, that a gun's look is somehow related to how "deadly" it is, or how evil the owner's intents are.

I think the big difference between being able to buy a gun in a hardware store years ago with no problems and today is that years ago the whole town took an interest in what the kids were doing. Whatever I did got back to my folks. I knew there were consequences to my actions. That's not true today. Some parents not only don't disipline their kids, they get very upset when anyone else tries to. Years ago, kids actually listened to their parents, can't say that today. If I spoke to my mom the way I've heard some kids do, I'd still be suffering the consequences.

 

[keeleon]

For the record, since it has already been proven that "country" and "county" can be confused easily, perhaps the man was curious why he had to write his "country" twice, since he had already filled it in? Some old folks don't have the best vision, and those words are DAM close.

She wanted a pistol grip AND a black finish?? What kind of evil things is she planning?? I am glad that the store doesn't carry such a scary weapon!

It did sound a little fishy to me as well.

^^Sarcasm^^

For those of you playing at home, sarcasm is when someone states something that is very different than how they feel to prove a point, usually used in a humorous way. NOTE: Does not work well on internet.

(^^also sarcasm because I'm an ass like that^^)


It sounded fishy because of the way she was acting, not what she was asking for. Personally, that's almost my exact "mall ninja" gun as well.

 

[pbearperry]

Black guns

Maybe we should go back to brown and blue colored guns to get the Anti's off of our backs.Everyone knows that a black gun is more powerful and dangerous than a brown gun.Right?:banghead:

 

[BigBadJohn]

I just bought my godson a 10/22 for his birthday, the dealer knew it was a gift, said all I needed to do was transfer it to him once he received it. no biggie.

 

[Mr. James]

I have thought about it. Extensively. I am a free American (so goes the theory) and I shouldn't have to pass the government's sniff test to buy an inanimate object. . .

. . . Freedom is risky. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Brilliant post. Well done, sir.