Expansion Industries Primer Plant

LiveLife said:
Where have you been?

We have been below $0.08/round shipped since April - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-3#post-12277076

And currently we are looking to break below $0.06/round shipped - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-9#post-12405553

I am actually anticipating a drop below $30/500 shipped before I consider restocking big for my retirement (Technically we are already there with $29.49/500 and free shipping but that's for tracer rounds and I want to stock up on CCI Blazer/Aguila 40 gr CPRN ... Ammo that produced 0.5" groups at 50 yards and 1.25" groups at 100 yards out of my 10/22 with factory barrel).

How low will we go? Time will tell.


You are absolutely correct.

Having gone through several component shortages the past 30 years, I have learned to stock up when ammo/components were plentiful at rebound bottom prices and wait out patiently during the height of the shortage.

Our last "Great Shortage" was in 2013 and prices didn't bottom until 2019, six years later. Current shortage started in late 2019/early 2020 and we are approaching 3 years ... I anticipate inventory to continue coming back "in stock" at lower and lower prices.

I mean back in 2013, who thought we would be able to stock up on S&B primers for $20/1000 and Winchester primers for $27/1000 in 2019? ;)

Let's be patient as buyng now will simply delay the price drop, like the previous shortage. :)
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Most of my .22 rimfire pistols are older and only work with standard velocity loads. The Fiocchi, CCI and Aguila offerings work best but have never been cheap because they aren’t made in volume. I think there may be more calibers and loads that become more expensive because they are made in lower volume going forward. Just a hunch.
 
BushMaster-15 said:
" Expecting Vista to enter into a contract and tie up funds for some possible,"

Wait a minute partner WHO was tying up funds ? . We were dealing in Letter of credit to the tune of several millions of $'s with prepayment of 35% ,Net 90 days . So Vista was out NOTHING ,they simply DON'T want competition . Kind of like Big box stores ,you undercut everyone until they FAIL ,then you RAISE price and have captured audiences . Sound familiar !.
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Now you’re revealing a little more information and I can see it’s very personal to you. But to Vista it wasn’t personal, only business.

Maybe it was for the reason you say but maybe not. If it’s why you say, of course. What firm finances their own competition?
 
BBarn said:
there is the large quantities of ammo now available. That tells me there are less primers being used to load commercial ammo and there will soon be even more available to reloaders.
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You are absolutely correct.

Having gone through several component shortages the past 30 years, I have learned to stock up when ammo/components were plentiful at rebound bottom prices and wait out patiently during the height of the shortage.

Our last "Great Shortage" was in 2013 and prices didn't bottom until 2019, six years later. Current shortage started in late 2019/early 2020 and we are approaching 3 years ... I anticipate inventory to continue coming back "in stock" at lower and lower prices.

I mean back in 2013, who thought we would be able to stock up on S&B primers for $20/1000 and Winchester primers for $27/1000 in 2019? ;)

Let's be patient as buyng now will simply delay the price drop, like the previous shortage. :)

BushMaster-15 said:
You bring up an EXCELLENT POINT
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Yes, and reasons why during the "Great Shortage" of 2013, my family started building/shooting AR based PCCs as I could reload 9mm for the similar price of 22LR at $5-$6/50.

And I got CMMG 22LR conversion bolt kits to shoot 22LR out of my ARs for shooting drills and plinking at much lower price than reloading .223 rounds.

For current shortage, I bought GSG 1911 22LR and Advantage Arms 22LR slide kit for my Gen3 Glock 22 to shoot Aguila 40 gr CPRN I stocked up at below $20/500 shipped in 2019.

So 22LR shooting options are allowing me to enjoy my ARs, 1911, Glock without depleting my reloading component stock ... And I shot over 40,000 rounds of 22LR last several years of retirement and life is good. :thumbup:

Can you imagine shooting that much when ammo price was $1 per round? :eek: And I still picked up plenty of factory new spent brass at various BLM shooting spots of 9/40/45 along with .223/5.56/.308 during the height of ammo price peak and wife went, "What? People are shooting at $1 per round? ... Yup, people did. :p
 
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CQB45ACP said:
Now you’re revealing a little more information and I can see it’s very personal to you. But to Vista it wasn’t personal, only business.

Maybe it was for the reason you say but maybe not. If it’s why you say, of course. What firm finances their own competition?
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Business is business ,NO one finance's someone Else's business other than Feds ,as it's NOT their monies is it .

Businesses generally need raw material for manufacture or specific goods for services ,other businesses provide those as that's THEIR BUSINESS . IF they won't supply ,one has to wonder WHY ?. Money is Money and a US based manufacturer ,willing to sign commitment of finance for supply . Sorry I can't see any other reasoning and Yes it was personal ,as I spent Months putting together the conglomerate ; Including sourcing NEW ammo machines as well as location with ALL partners agreeing . Try that sometime and You to will understand it's PERSONAL .
 
BushMaster-15 said:
" Expecting Vista to enter into a contract and tie up funds for some possible,"

Wait a minute partner WHO was tying up funds ? . We were dealing in Letter of credit to the tune of several millions of $'s with prepayment of 35% ,Net 90 days . So Vista was out NOTHING ,they simply DON'T want competition . Kind of like Big box stores ,you undercut everyone until they FAIL ,then you RAISE price and have captured audiences . Sound familiar !.
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What incentives did you offer Vista to make funding your operation more attractive than other investments they could make without creating more competition for their own product?
 
higgite said:
What incentives did you offer Vista to make funding your operation more attractive than other investments they could make without creating more competition for their own product?
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A commitment of on going purchase . It's NOT in our interest to entice a supplier with any incentives . They offer a service we provide payment for said service a commitment of purchase guarantees we weren't a one shot charlie . They were dealing with plandemic concerns and manufacturing shortages as were nearly everyone else . We DIDN'T demand immediate shipment and were willing to wait 90-120 days before receiving first shipment . So incentives how about OUR MONEY at 35% down payment for 90-120 days .
 
BushMaster-15 said:
Business is business ,NO one finance's someone Else's business other than Feds ,as it's NOT their monies is it .

Businesses generally need raw material for manufacture or specific goods for services ,other businesses provide those as that's THEIR BUSINESS . IF they won't supply ,one has to wonder WHY ?. Money is Money and a US based manufacturer ,willing to sign commitment of finance for supply . Sorry I can't see any other reasoning and Yes it was personal ,as I spent Months putting together the conglomerate ; Including sourcing NEW ammo machines as well as location with ALL partners agreeing . Try that sometime and You to will understand it's PERSONAL .
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Look, I’m not trying to pick a fight here but let me tell you your personal involvement results in an irrational view of how a publicly traded corporation should conduct their business. Even if they made the wrong decision, it was theirs to make and not yours. For all you know, they had other prospective deals which were more attractive to their bottom line than was yours. Maybe they want more tents and canoes than ammo. Who the heck knows. Not you or me. Peace.
 
LiveLife said:
Where have you been?

We have been below $0.08/round shipped since April -
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I was referring to typical prices readily available in a store, or online including shipping. I have been able to buy some on occasion for less than $.07 per round.

Many of the low online prices are sold out, or require large orders to get free shipping.
 
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BBarn said:
I was referring to typical prices readily available in a store, or online including shipping
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The price per 500 in bold indicated in the link are including shipping and all the links are verified "in stock" when the posts are updated (Of course, lowest prices for popular 22LR have been selling out fast) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-9#post-12405553

And many members have reported Walmart selling Federal AutoMatch for $21.95/325 for quite a while which comes out to $33.77/500.

BBarn said:
Many of the low online prices are sold out or require large orders to get free shipping.
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While CCI Blazer for $33.65/500 is sold out (That post was made almost 2 weeks ago ;)), the next three lowest cost 22LR are still in stock and I would not consider $250 a "large" order these days:
 
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CQB45ACP said:
Look, I’m not trying to pick a fight here but let me tell you your personal involvement results in an irrational view of how a publicly traded corporation should conduct their business. Even if they made the wrong decision, it was theirs to make and not yours. For all you know, they had other prospective deals which were more attractive to their bottom line than was yours. Maybe they want more tents and canoes than ammo. Who the heck knows. Not you or me. Peace.
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I'd agree but when You pull up to McDonald's and have cash ,do they not sell you their goods ?.

One last small detail ; I having multiple contacts in various places including a couple inside of their subsidiary company's ,we were told differently . An totally agree it may not have been in their best interest ,having a competitive munitions operation in competition .
Regardless whether it's a public or privately held company ,products and services are what they peddle ,as it fuels their existence .
So Not sure where You are coming from on that level . Business is Business they Didn't want ours end of discussion .
 
LiveLife said:
Starting to think I should have bought more of S&B primers when they were sold by Cabela's for $20/1000 ... just 3 years ago

Also, thinking I should have bought more Wolf primers when they were sold by Powder Valley for $14/1000 ... Dang, how time flies. :D

I didn't think at the time but looking back, Winchester primers for $27/1000 now looks to be a heck of a deal and I should have bought more ... :):p


I know about Ginex primers but surprised other country primer makers ididn't step in to fill the demand for primers ... Like Armscor - https://ammoterra.com/product/armscor-primers
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Shoulda woulda coulda
Famous last words
 
Wow the other post went off the rails.

So it looks like they are doing samples now.
They are non corrosive, mercury free. I know I saw something about them being lead free. Lead free primers use easier to get chemicals, but are harder to make, supposedly they give a weaker bang.
 
N555 said:
Wow the other post went off the rails.

So it looks like they are doing samples now.
They are non corrosive, mercury free. I know I saw something about them being lead free. Lead free primers use easier to get chemicals, but are harder to make, supposedly they give a weaker bang.
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This same video was post #49 in the most recent earlier thread. It was bogus then and still is.
 
It tells you what it's made of? That's all.
If they were mercury free, non corrosive and lead free then supply shortages that effect the normal primer types wouldn't effects the people making lead free ones.
 
A distributor who made some of the initial investments has some for evaluation.
The most recent video isn't bogus. That said, 'a few' vs volume production can be a big step.
 
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