Firearms and a felon co-worker

[rromeo]

I work for a small company, about 20 full-time employees. I would estimate that 15 of us own guns of some degree, and 5 of us are borderline gun nuts, including the owner.
Now, they recently hired a felon. The owner knows about it, I know it, and 1 or 2 other guys in the shop know.
The first question, is there any issues with me warning others about not letting him shoot their guns? He's a registered sex offender, so anybody can type his name into Google and figure this out.
Second question, we travel as a team. Almost as a rule, we'll hit a few gun shops on the way. I know he can't handle guns or ammo, but can he go in the stores with us?
Third question is related to the second. If I buy a gun, and he's riding in the same vehicle as I am, how should I store it? We usually take SUVs so no trunk.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Felon?....

Why would the owner/CEO/manager hire a convicted felon? Is he a relative? Is the case up for appeal?
If you all have guns or ammo laying around or use guns while you travel; target shooting, defense, etc. Why would you include a felon with your travel group?

There seems to be a few holes in this post.

 

[mbogo]

Those of you who know he is a felon should not allow him to handle your firearms. You should probably advise your fellow employees of his being a prohibited person discreetly, off-premises. No need to go into the particulars of the felony itself.

You can still enter gun stores with him in attendance; just don't hand him a firearm.


In all cases, it is HIS (the felon's) responsibilty to avoid handling or possessing firearms unless and until his civil rights are restored through the judicial process or he receives a pardon.

mbogo

 

[Schwing]

As someone who has a pedophile for a brother-in-law, I worry more about where my kids are than my guns. He is not welcome around either.

Being in a car or even living in the same home as a felon does not impact your right to bear arms in any way. Being in the same vehicle or building with a gun is not the same thing as being in possession of one.

I am not aware of any restrictions that would bar him from entering a gun store but that one might require further research. In either case, you are not a felon. It is his issue, not yours.

 

[HankR]

Why would the owner/CEO/manager hire a convicted felon?

In the general sense, why not? If a person has served their time and you believe them to be trustworthy, why not? I'm not talking about the sex offender situation, which might creep me out a little (depending, I have heard stories of a drunk guy taking a leak becoming a sexual offender if observed by the wrong party--no idea if that is true or not).

I do have a friend, an actual friend, more than just a acquaintance, who is a felon. He had a drug conviction in his misspent youth. He's now at least 45, probably pushing 50 and I would hire him in a heartbeat if I needed his skills. Honest, dependable, very forthcoming about his past if asked. I can't let him shoot my guns, but I'd trust him to go to the bank for me, or watch my house when I'm out of town, or babysit my kids if they were younger.

He is looking into getting this conviction removed/fogiven/expunged, but his lawyer seems to think that he needs to show a hardship by having the conviction. For example, if he could show he couldn't get a job due to the conviction the lawyer thinks they could use that, the elapsed time, and his reformed status to somehow make it go away. It's a small town, and he's very good at what he does, so he has had no trouble getting employment in his chosen field. While this doesn't help his appeal (or whatever it's called), it shows that I'm not the only one that would hire him.

 

[Red Wind]

In the general sense, why not? If a person has served their time and you believe them to be trustworthy, why not? I'm not talking about the sex offender situation, which might creep me out a little (depending, I have heard stories of a drunk guy taking a leak becoming a sexual offender if observed by the wrong party--no idea if that is true or not).

I support this opinion 100%. Make one mistake and you are doomed to disgrace for life? What a world we live in. Pass a bad check , embezzle a few grand, all rights should be gone forever? We're humans, we do stupid, criminal actions.

But a lifetime of being a social pariah for a non violent "white collar crime"? I think not.

 

[Nite Ryder]

If I were the OP, I'd give the felon the benefit of doubt. Until you know the whole story and really get to know this guy, I don't think it is fair to judge him again. We have some stupid laws on the books, and some of them have been broken by some of us and we were lucky enough to not get caught. I have a friend who is a felon because he got into some trouble in his youth, but I would trust him with my life. Until the felon proves he is not trust worthy, I would leave it up to him to decide how he wants to react to firearms.

 

[oneounceload]

Felons, at least in FL, can apply for the restitution of their rights.

 

[rromeo]

I think he's a good guy that made a few mistakes 20 years ago. I was just trying to cover bases.

 

[Red Wind]

Felons, at least in FL, can apply for the restitution of their rights.

Quite true. However ,if you are a Federal Felon, you are almost certainly finished.
Only a presidential pardon can restore your voting, jury duty and gun rights.

Meaning, your odds are slim to none.

 

[WestKentucky]

I'm very much in agreeance. The biggest difference between felons and normal people is that felons got caught doing something. There are a lot of people who have played jokes or done stupid things which technically are felonious acts. In college I was bad about driving the 2 miles home from a buddies after a few too many wobble - pops. Had I been involved in any motor vehicle accident I could have been charged with a number of things, but I was lucky. I hate that our society feels the need to label a person as their mistake rather than labeling the mistake made by a person. A man may be a murderer, a rapist, an arsonist, or any other term but they are a man first and foremost. When a man is square with the judicial system they should be square with society.

 

[stompah]

Here if you get caught urinating in public you can end up as a sex offender. Do something stupid with your friends at 18 and the felony can follow you for life. There should be an automatic keep your nose clean and it drops off after a decade rule.


I'd try to distance your guns and hobbie from him. Not to ostracise him bit to protect you both from an officer giving both of you a bad day.

 

[rromeo]

Stompah, that's exactly what I was asking about. I don't want to make a big deal, but I don't want anybody to get in trouble needlessly.

 

[danez71]

Why would the owner/CEO/manager hire a convicted felon? Is he a relative? Is the case up for appeal?
If you all have guns or ammo laying around or use guns while you travel; target shooting, defense, etc. Why would you include a felon with your travel group?

There seems to be a few holes in this post.

It doesn't matter "why". Knowing "why" doesn't change anything.

Here if you get caught urinating in public you can end up as a sex offender. Do something stupid with your friends at 18 and the felony can follow you for life. There should be an automatic keep your nose clean and it drops off after a decade rule.

I know of 2 people that has happened to. I also know a female that "flashed" during a spring break that now has to register as a sex offender.



I agree with the others that these minor felonies should go away automatically after some time staying out of trouble.

 

[dprice3844444]

from a similar thread,
Frank Ettin
Moderator
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=756446&highlight=aiding+abetting


Join Date: April 29, 2006
Location: California - San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 7,478
If a member of the household is a prohibited person, and if the prohibited person as access to guns lawfully owned/possessed by another member of the household --
The member of the household risks federal prosecution for being a prohibited person in possession (because he has access) of firearms.

The person lawfully owning the firearms and storing them in such a way that allows the prohibited person access to them risks prosecution for aiding and abetting the unlawful possession of firearms by a prohibited person.

Both the unlawful possession and the aiding and abetting are federal felonies with penalties of up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).

When the Federal Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (Pennsylvania) looked at the issue a while ago, it let stand an indictment for aiding and abetting the unlawful possession of a gun by a prohibited persons in a situation in which a gun owner had a cohabitant who was a prohibited person. The point in that case, United States v. Huet, 665 F.3d 588 (3rd Cir., 2012), was that the gun the prohibited person was charged with possessing was not secured against the prohibited person's access, supporting both the prohibited person's conviction for unlawful possession of a gun and the indictment of his cohabitant. From the opinion (at pg. 593, emphasis added):
Quote:
...on June 6, 2008, a valid search warrant (the “search warrant”) was executed on the couple‟s Clarion County home. Agents seized an SKS, Interordnance M59/66 rifle (“SKS rifle”) from an upstairs bedroom.

Although Huet is legally permitted to possess a firearm, Hall was convicted in 1999 of possessing an unregistered firearm, in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 5861(d), and is therefore prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm. After being informed of the raid, Huet allegedly told investigators that the guns in the house belonged to her and that it was not illegal for her to purchase weapons. Despite Huet‟s assertions that she alone possessed the SKS rifle, the Government sought and obtained an indictment charging Hall with illegal possession of the weapon, and Huet with aiding and abetting Hall‟s possession....
On the other hand, in U.S. v. Casterline, 103 F.3d 76 (C.A.9 (Or.), 1996), the 9th Circuit set aside a conviction for being a felon in possession of a gun, because the conviction was based solely on evidence of ownership, but under the circumstances the defendant did not have access to or possession of the gun and ammunition.

 

[MedWheeler]

Mbogo writes:

In all cases, it is HIS (the felon's) responsibilty to avoid handling or possessing firearms unless and until his civil rights are restored through the judicial process or he receives a pardon.

It is also unlawful to "knowingly transfer" to a convicted felon any firearm, ammunition, or component of ammunition.

The responsibility lies on both sides. Hand him a gun, round of ammo, or even a spent case, while knowing or having reason to suspect that he is a "prohibited person", and you are in violation of law.

Oneounceload writes:

Felons, at least in FL, can apply for the restitution of their rights.

.. but means

Felons, at least in FL, can apply for the restoration of their rights.

 

[oneounceload]

Thanks for correcting my verbiage!

 

[Psyphertext]

I agree Hank. For the most part, a sentence is to make society whole. Upon completion and with very limited exceptions, i would not have a problem hiring someone with a slight background blemish. We have to remember those writing criminal code often exempt themselves fro it and use it to keep competition for their position down.

An emploher technically cannot discriminate against someone based upon criminal record, even more so when it is a felon returni g to society, with limited exception. Why continue to handicap folks who need to be given a chance upon completion of sentence?

I would let my coworkers know offline, being discrete. You have to remember that they will format opinions about this individual once you do, that could ultimately be your fault if you say something.

 

[hso]

Until Chuck Schumer's blockage of the funds to pay the agency to restore felons' 2A rights is removed there's no way that I know of that a felon can have their 2A rights restored.

As to what to do, he's not permitted around unsecured firearms. Make sure that he can't access them without forcibly doing so.

 

[bikemutt]

Until Chuck Schumer's blockage of the funds to pay the agency to restore felons' 2A rights is removed there's no way that I know of that a felon can have their 2A rights restored.

As to what to do, he's not permitted around unsecured firearms. Make sure that he can't access them without forcibly doing so.

Federal funding I believe applies only to those convicted at the Federal level, and yes, Federal felony; no chance of 2A restoration these days.

With respect to State felonies, it all depends on the State and has nothing to do with Federal funding AFAIK.

 

[Zach S]

If he seems like a good guy that screwed up 20 years ago, why not talk to him?

Tthere was a guy where I used to work that had a felony... According to the story, he saw a car with the keys hanging in it, went for a joyride, and got caught.

Instead of getting charged with whatever joyriding is here in NC, he got the book thrown at him. The car belonged to someone that knew the mayor...

 

[Frank Ettin]

Drifting off topic.