First Glock...20 or 21

[allaroundhunter]

Besides the possibility of a mechanical failure, I'd also not buy a guide rod laser, due to their unadjustability. (is that a word?)

Negative, if you can "unadjust" something, then it must also be adjustable (the "un" prefix just means to undo the adjustment). What you mean is that you will not own one due to them being non adjustable.

(but even unadjust isn't a word )

 

[CZ57]

Because of the poorer support for the casehead in Glock pistols, I would go with the G21 because the .45 ACP is a much lower pressure round. You can always shoot +P or get a heavier recoil spring and shoot .45 Super if you really need the extra punch.

Or, you can do as I did and go with the excellent SA XDm 4.5 in 45 ACP, or the 5.25 Comp model. That way you can shoot cast lead loads with precision and ease in the conventionally rifled Match Grade barrels that come standard with the XDms.

 

[ljnowell]

Or, you can do as I did and go with the excellent SA XDm 4.5 in 45 ACP, or the 5.25 Comp model. That way you can shoot cast lead loads with precision and ease in the conventionally rifled Match Grade barrels that come standard with the XDms.

Or, you could just shoot lead in the glock barrel like many of us do anyway. As far as the XDm goes, the OP wasnt interested in it. I think that its kind of funny anyway, add an M to it, call it match grade, and watch the people snap it up!

 

[dirtengineer]

I have a 21 and wished I would have gotten a 20. I live in bear country and it would be nice to have something with a little more oomph for the wife to carry.

 

[ljnowell]

I have a 21 and wished I would have gotten a 20. I live in bear country and it would be nice to have something with a little more oomph for the wife to carry.

So get yourself a 10mm conversion barrel and have at it. One of the benefits of buying the G21 is that you can convert to 10mm VERY cheap and have both in one gun.

 

[Swing]

I'd go with the 21 if you don't handload.

 

[OilyPablo]

So get yourself a 10mm conversion barrel and have at it. One of the benefits of buying the G21 is that you can convert to 10mm VERY cheap and have both in one gun.

What magazine do you use? I assume a G20 mag. These mags fit in the 21 with no issues?

Frankly if you want .45ACP, I would shop outside of Glock. My FNP-45 shoots every bit as good, OK better than a Glock - in my opinion. As do all my 1911's. The Glock 20 is just a nice combination, with so few polymer 10mm offerings out there. If you shop you can find some decent 10mm deals on line - I do agree some of the factory 10mm loads are pretty wimpy. Find a friend who reloads, and learn. We did 1400 10mm rounds one morning! Amazing - we just loaded in the middle of the ranges for 155gr and 180gr bullets and they were very nicely hot, way better than factory ammo.

 

[dirtengineer]

So get yourself a 10mm conversion barrel and have at it. One of the benefits of buying the G21 is that you can convert to 10mm VERY cheap and have both in one gun.

I actually converted to .45 super. I was afraid of the slide mass difference going to 10mm.

 

[CZ57]

Or, you could just shoot lead in the glock barrel like many of us do anyway. As far as the XDm goes, the OP wasnt interested in it. I think that its kind of funny anyway, add an M to it, call it match grade, and watch the people snap it up!

What's really funny is a combat pistol that doesn't have a relieved ejection port. I guess you've never noticed the triangular scar at the casemouth on your ejected brass. It's also funny that you guys that shoot lead through your Glocks think that's an accomplishment without ever commenting on accuracy (or lack thereof). My XDm will put 5 of my 200 gr. SWC loads through a single hole at 50'. The Glock uses a sloppy chamber to ensure feed reliability while the XDm is completely feed reliable with a match chamber. I think the joke's on you friend. And the OP never said he wasn't interested in an XDm.

 

[bruzer]

Gen 4 G21. My Wife handles the gun fine because Glock trimmed up the 2X4 grip on the Gen 4 models. Feeds and fires all the ammo that jams my buddy's 1911. The G21 will turn him to the darkside one of these days.
Good luck and stay safe,
Mike

 

[ljnowell]

I actually converted to .45 super. I was afraid of the slide mass difference going to 10mm.

Its not a concern.

What's really funny is a combat pistol that doesn't have a relieved ejection port. I guess you've never noticed the triangular scar at the casemouth on your ejected brass. It's also funny that you guys that shoot lead through your Glocks think that's an accomplishment without ever commenting on accuracy (or lack thereof). My XDm will put 5 of my 200 gr. SWC loads through a single hole at 50'. The Glock uses a sloppy chamber to ensure feed reliability while the XDm is completely feed reliable with a match chamber. I think the joke's on you friend. And the OP never said he wasn't interested in an XDm.

Looks like someone is getting all twisted out of shape. First, the OP asked specifically about glocks. Not XDs. 50' shooting? Hardly the test of a "match" grade barrel. My glock, RIA, Sig, Ruger, and MY XD45 etc. is capable of just as good of accuracy. Thats nothing outstanding. You are aware that there is much more to something being accurate than a tighter chamber, right? Go read up on the XDtalk forums, even they dont drink that "Match" koolaid.

Oh, and BTW, since you were asking, the accuracy is FANTASTIC with lead in my G21. I shoot Missouri Bullets 230gr Softballs over a moderate load of AA#2 and find it to be a very nice load.

What joke is exactly on me, friend? Why do you use the phrase "your glocks?" I am not a glock fanboy, unlike you are with your rabid defense of the XD. You jumped on the wrong pony if you are thinking that.

This thread is titled "First glock 20 or 21?" It was not titled come in and tell me how much better your XD is and pretend like you know it all.

 

[hentown]

I actually converted to .45 super. I was afraid of the slide mass difference going to 10mm.

I shoot both G21s and G20s. I've fired a lot of .40 Supers through my G21s. .40 Super is to 10mm like Superman is to a Democrat.

This is pretty simple h.s. physics: Use the proper recoil spring weight for the loads that you're shooting. The difference in slide mass between a G21 and G20 is negligible. It's absurd to use the same recoil spring assembly in a G21 as in a G20, or, of course, in a G22 as a G17.

I've fired a lot of my reloads through m Glocks. I've never seen a swollen case or "smiley".

 

[ritepath]

I bought a FDE 20 earlier in the year....loved the pistol, but since I don't reload and it was FDE I was able to sell it for the same that I paid.

I'm starting to lean toward a 21 as a replacement.

 

[CZ57]

Looks like someone is getting all twisted out of shape. First, the OP asked specifically about glocks. Not XDs. 50' shooting? Hardly the test of a "match" grade barrel. My glock, RIA, Sig, Ruger, and MY XD45 etc. is capable of just as good of accuracy. Thats nothing outstanding. You are aware that there is much more to something being accurate than a tighter chamber, right? Go read up on the XDtalk forums, even they dont drink that "Match" koolaid.

Oh, and BTW, since you were asking, the accuracy is FANTASTIC with lead in my G21. I shoot Missouri Bullets 230gr Softballs over a moderate load of AA#2 and find it to be a very nice load.

What joke is exactly on me, friend? Why do you use the phrase "your glocks?" I am not a glock fanboy, unlike you are with your rabid defense of the XD. You jumped on the wrong pony if you are thinking that.

This thread is titled "First glock 20 or 21?" It was not titled come in and tell me how much better your XD is and pretend like you know it all.

If someone is getting twisted out of shape it appears to be you, LOL. Go back and read post 27. I stated my opinion on which was the better Glock. I also offered an alternative. You're the one that got all defensive. Not all of us live in a "Peoples Republic" so we feel free to express our opinions where I live.

I am a member at XD Talk and the biggest opponents of the XDm's barrel actually being "Match Grade" are Glock fanboys that like to hover at XD Talk. And yes, I know what constitutes a "Match Grade" barrel. Not only have I studied machining, I clepped the course on geometric tolerancing.

As far as a rabid defense, looks like you're busy trying to mount one. 50' may not be all that great a distance, but even a 50' one hole 5 round group is nothing to sneeze at and I have fired Glock 21s and 30s, if they are as accurate with cast lead loads as you'd have use believe, I'd own one. The idea that all of your pistols will deliver accuracy just as good sounds kinda like Internet . . . . . .well. I also shoot a Dan Wesson VBob regularly and it won't better the accuracy of my XDm and it cost over $1200.

 

[ljnowell]

If someone is getting twisted out of shape it appears to be you, LOL. Go back and read post 27. I stated my opinion on which was the better Glock. I also offered an alternative. You're the one that got all defensive. Not all of us live in a "Peoples Republic" so we feel free to express our opinions where I live.

I am a member at XD Talk and the biggest opponents of the XDm's barrel actually being "Match Grade" are Glock fanboys that like to hover at XD Talk. And yes, I know what constitutes a "Match Grade" barrel. Not only have I studied machining, I clepped the course on geometric tolerancing.

As far as a rabid defense, looks like you're busy trying to mount one. 50' may not be all that great a distance, but even a 50' one hole 5 round group is nothing to sneeze at and I have fired Glock 21s and 30s, if they are as accurate with cast lead loads as you'd have use believe, I'd own one. The idea that all of your pistols will deliver accuracy just as good sounds kinda like Internet . . . . . .well. I also shoot a Dan Wesson VBob regularly and it won't better the accuracy of my XDm and it cost over $1200.

Again, you have no idea of what you are talking about. It doesnt matter what you studied, you surely arent building those barrels for the XDms.

Glocks are inaccurate with lead? REally? Care to elaborate on where you gained this wisdom because its as false as it gets.

I am a liar for saying that mine was accurate?

Maybe you just cant shoot one that well? If you shoot an XDm better than Dan Wesson then I would be inclined to follow this logic.

There is nothing spectacular about the XDm except its marketing. Is it a good gun, sure. The original XD isnt a bad gun, mine has been pretty well flawless, except getting it to feed SWCs. I have been told that this XDm does do that better. Maybe there is a reason to buy one over a regular XD, lol.

Have a great day.

 

[CZ57]

Well, I'm not the one who accused Springfield Armory of perpetuating a hoax by stamping MATCH on the barrel.

Polygonal rifling will not equal conventional rifling in its ability to "bite" the bullet to stabilize it. There is also the question of gases escaping the base of the bullet in polygonal rifling. This leads to lead adhering to the barrel and lead build up in the bore will lead to inaccuracy. In some cases the build up can be great enough that coupled with poor casehead support Ka-Booms have been experienced. That's why I made the statement to the OP in post #27.

Your probably right in that I don't shoot a Glock as well as I do the XDm but I didn't say I didn't shoot the DW as well. I said it is no more accurate than the XDm. I have a trigger kit in my XDm that helps level the playing field.

Personally, I don't find anything exceptional about XDm marketing. After all, they don't claim "Perfection" do they? I would also recommend that the OP check out the S&W M&P line, it is also a newer design that surpasses the Glock.

You have a nice day too!

 

[optimator]

I hate Glocks. Ugly, non ergonomic, and really, really ugly. With that said I bought my first one back in July. A G20. One of my buddies has a Delta Elite and I fell in love with the 10mm. When I saw the Glock sitting there, on sale for $520 out the door, I had to buy it. Love this gun.

 

[ljnowell]

Well, I'm not the one who accused Springfield Armory of perpetuating a hoax by stamping MATCH on the barrel.

Polygonal rifling will not equal conventional rifling in its ability to "bite" the bullet to stabilize it. There is also the question of gases escaping the base of the bullet in polygonal rifling. This leads to lead adhering to the barrel and lead build up in the bore will lead to inaccuracy. In some cases the build up can be great enough that coupled with poor casehead support Ka-Booms have been experienced. That's why I made the statement to the OP in post #27.

Your probably right in that I don't shoot a Glock as well as I do the XDm but I didn't say I didn't shoot the DW as well. I said it is no more accurate than the XDm. I have a trigger kit in my XDm that helps level the playing field.

Personally, I don't find anything exceptional about XDm marketing. After all, they don't claim "Perfection" do they? I would also recommend that the OP check out the S&W M&P line, it is also a newer design that surpasses the Glock.

You have a nice day too!

Your assertions about poly rifling are not true. Spend a little time reading on the subject and you will find that loading lead is very common in them by people who know what they are doing. My g21 can shoot hundreds of rounds without lead buildup.

I cant stand the Glock perfection advertising campaign its ridiculous. I still think you are under the impression that I am a "glock guy." I own one and have no desire to own another, the same with my XD.

There is no hoax to perpetuate because there is no definition of a "match" barrel. You tighten up the chamber and stamp match on it? Its a marketing ploy same as glock "perfection."

 

[CZ57]

Well I think there's more to it than that. My understanding of what IM Metals is doing is holding the XDm barrels to tighter tolerances. Slightly tighter chamber, closer tolerances in machining and rifling the barrels and more care taken fitting barrels to slides. Considering what wages are in Croatia, I don't find that hard to believe at all. I also believe that's responsible for the price difference between the XD and the XDm. It's certainly not the interchangeable backstraps.

I know from the reloading section here at the forum that there are quite a few handloaders that are shooting cast lead through Glocks. I've just never seen any of them as emphatic about accuracy as you are. And, I still read about Ka-Booms with Glocks and a number of them are attributable to using cast lead reloads. Maybe the people in question just don't know enough about proper procedure in loading lead for Glocks.

If you say you're not a "Glock" guy, I will take you at your word.

 

[ljnowell]

Well I think there's more to it than that. My understanding of what IM Metals is doing is holding the XDm barrels to tighter tolerances. Slightly tighter chamber, closer tolerances in machining and rifling the barrels and more care taken fitting barrels to slides. Considering what wages are in Croatia, I don't find that hard to believe at all. I also believe that's responsible for the price difference between the XD and the XDm. It's certainly not the interchangeable backstraps.

I know from the reloading section here at the forum that there are quite a few handloaders that are shooting cast lead through Glocks. I've just never seen any of them as emphatic about accuracy as you are. And, I still read about Ka-Booms with Glocks and a number of them are attributable to using cast lead reloads. Maybe the people in question just don't know enough about proper procedure in loading lead for Glocks.

If you say you're not a "Glock" guy, I will take you at your word.

I think that the ka-boom thing with lead is a two-fold issue. When one reloads with lead in a poly barrel you have to pay attention to loads. Loads that work perfectly with no leading in a 1911 or XD wont work in a glock sometimes. I have a pet load with LRN that works in all of my guns.

Hardness of the lead is one thing thats important but fit and bearing surface length of the bullet is more important. A short bearing surface 185gr SWC for example tends to skid in Poly rifling, IME. The 230gr slug I use has much more bearing length and doesnt have that problem, thus giving less leading.

Also, some of the older guns would fire way out of battery. People would get the lead built up to where the gun wouldnt go fully into battery and then pull the trigger. KABOOOOOOOM!

As for being a glock guy, no. I am more of a revolver and 1911 guy. To me plastic guns are all the same. I own one glock, dont need another. I own one XD, dont need another. I am going to pick up an M&P, probably in 9mm, but I will only buy one of those too.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you may know more about the XDm than I do, but in all of my reading no one, not even Springfield has given me any real data about what makes it "match" grade. I'm a bullseye shooter and in my league I see all kinds of "match grade" guns, but no XDs, you know what I mean?

 

[CZ57]

I'm a bullseye shooter and in my league I see all kinds of "match grade" guns, but no XDs, you know what I mean?

Yep, but I did see the XDm 5.25 Comp being used by some top flight competitors at the last Bianchi CUP.

 

[powder]

KBs? Yeah right.

I forget the name of the competitor: he shows up to national matches, picks a pistol out of the stack of factory supplied boxes, drops in Heinie sights and wins.

G21 accepts the conversion barrel for 10mm, but does nto work the other way around.

I don't believe you can get an XDm Comp. $679 pistol in 10mm, can you? Built in the USA? Nope, not even an option.

 

[CZ57]

Last time I checked Glock isn't making a 10mm Comp pistol either. Personally, I think SA should bring out a 10mm XDm, but if extra power is all that is needed here you can easily go to .45 SUPER simply by changing the recoil spring in an XDm and you have 10mm power, but with a fully supported chamber. If you want near .44 Magnum performance from an XDm, there are .460 Rowland kits available as well.

 

[powder]

Yeah, the Glock 10mm comp. gun is the G20.

The Glock Comp guns built in the USA? All of em.

The SA Xd pistol made in the USA? None of em. ZERO. Zip, ZILCH.


SA does not make a 10mm XD, do they. No. DO they make a .45 XDm that is less than $600? No. Is the OP asking about SA pistols? Don't think so.

 

[CZ57]

Well in no way is the Glock 20 a comp pistol. What it is, is a pistol with a sloppy chamber that doesn't even come with a relieved ejection port. All things that the OP should be made aware of. The G21 does not provide full support of the casehead either, but the round it fires is loaded at or under 21,000 PSI making it a safer bet.

And as far as Glocks being made in the US, that's avery recent development isn't it. The majority of the pistols already in the US came from Austria.

And KBs are a fact, all you have to do is go to Glock Talk to read all about 'em.