Brian Dale
Member
I'm surprised that nobody's yet posted,
{just kidding}
a whole bunch of people in earlier threads said:
{just kidding}
First Rifle - .357 or .30-30
- Thread starter Brass Rain
- Start date
- Status
Brass Rain
Member
Both? Well sure, but there's another twenty-something guns on my list and that's going up all the time. Just saw the new Indiana Jones so I have to get a Webley revolver. Hah, yeah right. One step at a time for now.
Jeez, why didn't I pick a cheaper obsession?
Jeez, why didn't I pick a cheaper obsession?
No way in the world a 357 offers better knock-down power than a 30-30 not even at the muzzle....a 30-30 has MORE than double the power at the end of the barrel...the two cartridges are in a total different class...a 357 ballistically is roughly the equivalent of the 30 Carbine.
A 357 Magnum is a powerful handgun round a 30-30 is a high power rifle round...
Both the 357 and the 30-30 will kill a deer at 100 yards..dead is dead but powerwise there is no comparison...
Brass Rain
Member
Saturno v:
Really? I thought the greater bullet diameter with more than adequet powder at that range would make a bigger hole but not penetrate as much and put energy into the air it could have put into the animal.
But then again I know a lot more about pistols than I do rifles and rifle ammunition.
Really? I thought the greater bullet diameter with more than adequet powder at that range would make a bigger hole but not penetrate as much and put energy into the air it could have put into the animal.
But then again I know a lot more about pistols than I do rifles and rifle ammunition.
Pine Cone
Member
I have both the Marlin 1894C in .38/.357 and the 336 in 30-30. Both are great guns. For distances of 50 yards or less they are pretty similar. For 100 yards plus the 30-30 wins the power and accuracy games.
For cheap plinking you can't beat a Winchester 9422 or Marlin 39a in .22LR. If you are in desperate straits, you could always consider a 22 semi-auto or bolt action rifle... but levers are way more fun
Over time, the cost of the rifle is nothing, it is all in the cost of ammo. I'm pretty sure that for most of us the more we shoot the better we shoot. More shooting = more fun too!
.22LR is cheaper than anything, I love my two Winchester 9422's. 550 rounds for $12, about 2 cents per round. I'm still looking for a nice used Marlin 39.
.38 Special is now about $16/50, or 32 cents per round.
.357 Magnum is now about $22/50, or 44 cents per round.
.30-30 is now about $13/20, or 65 cents per round.
If you buy a new .22LR Marlin 39a or used Winchester 9422 for $500 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $511. For 1000 rounds it's $522
If you buy a new .38/357 Marlin 1894C for $400 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $560 for .38 Special or $620 for .357 Magnum. For 1000 rounds it goes up to $720 and $840.
If you buy a used .30-30 Marlin 336 for $300 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $625. Go to 1000 rounds and the cost jumps to $950.
Note that over time the cheapest rifle is an expensive .22
I reload so the cost of the centerfire rounds is less than the costs I posted above. I much prefer loading the pistol rounds to rifle rounds. Fewer steps, faster production with my Lee turret press for either the .38 or .357 rounds.
Loading rifle rounds is more expensive, more loading steps, more expensive primers, more powder, and shorter case life. Loading rifle rounds isn't difficult, but for me, loading pistol rounds is much easier.
My 1894C prefers 357 to 38s, but there is almost no cost difference between the two if you reload. The bullets and primers are identical, there minor cost differences for the brass, slightly more powder is used for the 357, but you gain higher performance with the extra powder.
You can't lose on any one of these rifles, so buy what feels right to you.
If you don't want to reload and want to go to the dark side, you can always consider an AK
Right now cheap 7.62x.39 ammo is about $200/1000 rounds or about 20 cents per round.
I picked up a used AK for $300, add $200 for 1000 rounds and you are at a total cost of $500, the cheapest option yet
One thing for sure... the cost of ammo will continue to go up in price. Whatever you buy, get as much ammo as you can afford in the near future. Rising gas prices aren't going to help with shipping on heavy stuff like ammo, and the demand for lead, brass and other metals isn't going to drop anytime soon. I'd recommend a minimum of 500 to 1000 rounds if you can afford it.
For cheap plinking you can't beat a Winchester 9422 or Marlin 39a in .22LR. If you are in desperate straits, you could always consider a 22 semi-auto or bolt action rifle... but levers are way more fun
Over time, the cost of the rifle is nothing, it is all in the cost of ammo. I'm pretty sure that for most of us the more we shoot the better we shoot. More shooting = more fun too!
.22LR is cheaper than anything, I love my two Winchester 9422's. 550 rounds for $12, about 2 cents per round. I'm still looking for a nice used Marlin 39.
.38 Special is now about $16/50, or 32 cents per round.
.357 Magnum is now about $22/50, or 44 cents per round.
.30-30 is now about $13/20, or 65 cents per round.
If you buy a new .22LR Marlin 39a or used Winchester 9422 for $500 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $511. For 1000 rounds it's $522
If you buy a new .38/357 Marlin 1894C for $400 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $560 for .38 Special or $620 for .357 Magnum. For 1000 rounds it goes up to $720 and $840.
If you buy a used .30-30 Marlin 336 for $300 and shoot 500 rounds of ammo it will cost you about $625. Go to 1000 rounds and the cost jumps to $950.
Note that over time the cheapest rifle is an expensive .22
I reload so the cost of the centerfire rounds is less than the costs I posted above. I much prefer loading the pistol rounds to rifle rounds. Fewer steps, faster production with my Lee turret press for either the .38 or .357 rounds.
Loading rifle rounds is more expensive, more loading steps, more expensive primers, more powder, and shorter case life. Loading rifle rounds isn't difficult, but for me, loading pistol rounds is much easier.
My 1894C prefers 357 to 38s, but there is almost no cost difference between the two if you reload. The bullets and primers are identical, there minor cost differences for the brass, slightly more powder is used for the 357, but you gain higher performance with the extra powder.
You can't lose on any one of these rifles, so buy what feels right to you.
If you don't want to reload and want to go to the dark side, you can always consider an AK
Right now cheap 7.62x.39 ammo is about $200/1000 rounds or about 20 cents per round.I picked up a used AK for $300, add $200 for 1000 rounds and you are at a total cost of $500, the cheapest option yet
One thing for sure... the cost of ammo will continue to go up in price. Whatever you buy, get as much ammo as you can afford in the near future. Rising gas prices aren't going to help with shipping on heavy stuff like ammo, and the demand for lead, brass and other metals isn't going to drop anytime soon. I'd recommend a minimum of 500 to 1000 rounds if you can afford it.
Brass Rain
Member
Gee, thanks Pine Cone, for punching me in the wallet.
I know .22 is obscenely cheap but it's so... wimpy. I've shot .22 plenty and it's fun but there's just no felt oomph in it unless you stick it in a tiny gun.
As for reloading... what's the starting price estimate for the equipment? I know you end up saving bunches in the long run, but I don't have a bunch to throw around right now.
Like I just posted, why couldn't I have a cheaper obsession?
Not that I dislike it or anything.
And I do like AKs, they're just not what I want right now.
Next week, though, you never know...
I know .22 is obscenely cheap but it's so... wimpy. I've shot .22 plenty and it's fun but there's just no felt oomph in it unless you stick it in a tiny gun.
As for reloading... what's the starting price estimate for the equipment? I know you end up saving bunches in the long run, but I don't have a bunch to throw around right now.
Like I just posted, why couldn't I have a cheaper obsession?
Not that I dislike it or anything.
And I do like AKs, they're just not what I want right now.
Next week, though, you never know...
You mean they can both kill a deer at that distance?? Definitely yes...are they ballistically (power) similar at 50 yards?? Definitely no..
With the proper bullet you could stop a grizzly at 50 yards with a 30-30....not so sure about a 357...
You right about the economics....in the long run the cost of the rifle is nothing compared to the cost of ammo...
AStone
Member
OK, let's review what the OP - Brass Rain - wrote in the OP:
If he'd said medium game, I'd have voted .30-30 hands down.
Large game, I'd have said "neither". Go w/ .45-70.
But "not really, but small game & SHTF scenarios", I'll take .357 hands down.
I own both.
336 in .30-30 love it.
1894C in .357 mag. Likewise.
If I could have only one long gun,
I'd take the 1894C. Will take deer at short range
in pinch. Matches my 65. Shoots .38 spl.
Can put it in my pack. Carries like a dream.
Loaded right, it'll take small game,
which in a SHTF scenario, I'm more interested in.
Not to mention greased thunder for two-legged preds.
Brass, I'd go with the .357 mag for number one.
Then, for number 2, after lots of practice with .357
(facilitated by how cheap it is relative to .30-30, plus negligible recoil)
add a .30-30.
For bigger game, add a .45-70.
For smaller game, add a 39A in .22 LR.
Then you've got all levers.
Consistency in action,
familiarity in parts.
You're covered.
Next question?
Nem
Not really for medium-large game hunting, but it's a possibility...
If he'd said medium game, I'd have voted .30-30 hands down.
Large game, I'd have said "neither". Go w/ .45-70.
But "not really, but small game & SHTF scenarios", I'll take .357 hands down.
I own both.
336 in .30-30 love it.
1894C in .357 mag. Likewise.
If I could have only one long gun,
I'd take the 1894C. Will take deer at short range
in pinch. Matches my 65. Shoots .38 spl.
Can put it in my pack. Carries like a dream.
Loaded right, it'll take small game,
which in a SHTF scenario, I'm more interested in.
Not to mention greased thunder for two-legged preds.
Brass, I'd go with the .357 mag for number one.
Then, for number 2, after lots of practice with .357
(facilitated by how cheap it is relative to .30-30, plus negligible recoil)
add a .30-30.
For bigger game, add a .45-70.
For smaller game, add a 39A in .22 LR.
Then you've got all levers.
Consistency in action,
familiarity in parts.
You're covered.
Next question?
Nem
Brass Rain
Member
It never fails. Every time I'm convinced for one cartridge someone says something that makes me think the other might be better after all. I think I've gone back and forth at least five times now.
But I'm not really worried about big game. That's not a big consideration. No big game in Louisiana--not that I know of. I'm just wanting a light weight bullet that goes extremely fast, does massive damage to anything it hits, costs three cents a round, can fit 500 into a single magazine, never jams, has no recoil, and works in a three-pound rifle.
And really, is that so much to ask?
But I'm not really worried about big game. That's not a big consideration. No big game in Louisiana--not that I know of. I'm just wanting a light weight bullet that goes extremely fast, does massive damage to anything it hits, costs three cents a round, can fit 500 into a single magazine, never jams, has no recoil, and works in a three-pound rifle.
And really, is that so much to ask?
AStone
Member
So, you're looking for a .22 LR.
The "massive damage" part is debatable,
but ask the squirrel about that one.
AStone
Member
Yeah, but so can roadrunners.
Brass Rain
Member
Oh yeah, living in Louisiana there's another thing to consider--huricane evacuation. So the ability to take whatever game found while running from swirling masses of wind, rain, and death. Also defending against looters or frantic despots. Sounds like a job for the .357 lever to me, but you guys are the experts.
There's plenty to consider.
But right now I'd like to thank everyone for your input so far. I've gotten a great many responses in a small amount of time and almost all of them are helpful. Of course there seem to be firm supporters for each cartridge at least I know for sure that which ever one I picked I wouldn't be disappointed with.
Keep 'em coming guys and thanks a ton! You really know how to make a guy feel welcome.
There's plenty to consider.
But right now I'd like to thank everyone for your input so far. I've gotten a great many responses in a small amount of time and almost all of them are helpful. Of course there seem to be firm supporters for each cartridge at least I know for sure that which ever one I picked I wouldn't be disappointed with.
Keep 'em coming guys and thanks a ton! You really know how to make a guy feel welcome.
AStone
Member
Brass, a belated welcome to THR.
Trust me on this: you're going to like it here,
and contribute much.
Bottom line, yeah, you can't go wrong with either .30-30 or .357 in a carbine.
For your particular situation, I think .357 is the way to go.
Especially for hurricane stuff.
If you were doing whitetail every season up close to east Tejas woodlands, I'd go .30.
But for what you seem to be into, go .357.
Also, maybe I didn't make this clear in an earlier post.
My 1894C also shoots .38 spl (great for small game),
and my SW mod 65 takes both .357 mag & .38 spl.
Therefore, with 1894C + 65, I've got a great combo:
carbine plus handgun that both shoot .357 mag and .38 spl.
That covers everything from whitetail at 50 m to 2-legged vermin trying to take over your camp to rabbit and squirrel.
And range practice is soooo much easier: way cheaper, way less recoil and bang.
And it's just hard to beat levers and wheels for reliability and ease of maintenance.
Only thing easier in a rifle is a bolt.
But bolt is not a lever,
and lever is just faster.
I dunno. It's up to you.
Like I said, your choices are both excellent.
You can't go wrong with either.
Trust me on this: you're going to like it here,
and contribute much.
Bottom line, yeah, you can't go wrong with either .30-30 or .357 in a carbine.
For your particular situation, I think .357 is the way to go.
Especially for hurricane stuff.
If you were doing whitetail every season up close to east Tejas woodlands, I'd go .30.
But for what you seem to be into, go .357.
Also, maybe I didn't make this clear in an earlier post.
My 1894C also shoots .38 spl (great for small game),
and my SW mod 65 takes both .357 mag & .38 spl.
Therefore, with 1894C + 65, I've got a great combo:
carbine plus handgun that both shoot .357 mag and .38 spl.
That covers everything from whitetail at 50 m to 2-legged vermin trying to take over your camp to rabbit and squirrel.
And range practice is soooo much easier: way cheaper, way less recoil and bang.
And it's just hard to beat levers and wheels for reliability and ease of maintenance.
Only thing easier in a rifle is a bolt.
But bolt is not a lever,
and lever is just faster.
I dunno. It's up to you.
Like I said, your choices are both excellent.
You can't go wrong with either.
This is simply not true. The .357, with good ammo, has the SAME muzzle energy as the 30-30 (check out the Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap loads). Add the fact that there are good .357 180 grain hardcast loads moving at 1800 fps, and the .357 appears pretty good, at least out to 100 yards. Beyond 100 yards, true, the 30-30 is better (although most hunting back east is under 100 yards), but it really depends on the purpose of the rifle.
If this were a SHTF rifle, especially in an urban setting, I would actually prefer .357, since it holds 9 rounds, and it is cheaper to stockpile ammo.
Pine Cone
Member
Quote
A decent, basic reloading setup for .38/.357 runs anywhere from $20 to $500 depending on what you include in the price.
A single stage press kit without cartridge dies like this one for $85, http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=423081
dies will cost you $20-$50, and you need a bench or desk to mount the reloading press on. I got a nice bench from Costco for about $150
For faster and easier reloading I bought a turret press kit from Cabelas like this one for $165, fast, reliable, and easy to use. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=turret&noImage=0
Then you need brass, bullets, primers and powder. Brass can be free if you save it or scrounge it from the range, bullets are 5 to 20 cents a piece, primers are about 3 cents, and power is less than a nickel for most 38/357 rounds. Total cost per loaded cartridge is 10 to 30 cents per round, with the higher priced ones equivalent to the one dollar per round factory rounds.
The final must-have is at least one reloading book, for example the Lee "Modern Reloading". Check out the reloading forum here for lots more good advice.
If you want the cheapest option, you can start with a hand press like one of these for under $20. Not fancy, but they do work.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=702138
I started by buying factory ammo and saving the shells until I had about 500 or 1000 of them, then I bought the reloading kit.
As for rifle advice, Nem in #34 pretty much says it all. For a one-rifle SHTF scenario the Marlin 1894C is hard to beat. It is not a big game rifle, but for small and medium game it is more than adequate a shorter distances, and for home defense a shotgun might be better but a .357 rifle is a very versatile weapon.
A decent, basic reloading setup for .38/.357 runs anywhere from $20 to $500 depending on what you include in the price.
A single stage press kit without cartridge dies like this one for $85, http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=423081
dies will cost you $20-$50, and you need a bench or desk to mount the reloading press on. I got a nice bench from Costco for about $150
For faster and easier reloading I bought a turret press kit from Cabelas like this one for $165, fast, reliable, and easy to use. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=turret&noImage=0
Then you need brass, bullets, primers and powder. Brass can be free if you save it or scrounge it from the range, bullets are 5 to 20 cents a piece, primers are about 3 cents, and power is less than a nickel for most 38/357 rounds. Total cost per loaded cartridge is 10 to 30 cents per round, with the higher priced ones equivalent to the one dollar per round factory rounds.
The final must-have is at least one reloading book, for example the Lee "Modern Reloading". Check out the reloading forum here for lots more good advice.
If you want the cheapest option, you can start with a hand press like one of these for under $20. Not fancy, but they do work.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=702138
I started by buying factory ammo and saving the shells until I had about 500 or 1000 of them, then I bought the reloading kit.
As for rifle advice, Nem in #34 pretty much says it all. For a one-rifle SHTF scenario the Marlin 1894C is hard to beat. It is not a big game rifle, but for small and medium game it is more than adequate a shorter distances, and for home defense a shotgun might be better but a .357 rifle is a very versatile weapon.
AStone
Member
Fine reloading insights, Pine Cone.
Now we're getting down to details.
When we get to reloading,
we're getting more real.
So, suppose you were part of a nomadic group,
moving away from natural disaster,
carrying carbines in the .30 range.
Which of those reloading setups would you carry?
Now we're getting down to details.
When we get to reloading,
we're getting more real.
So, suppose you were part of a nomadic group,
moving away from natural disaster,
carrying carbines in the .30 range.
Which of those reloading setups would you carry?
qajaq59
Member
If you're going to use it for hunting I'd say go with the 30-30.
Don't try and make one rifle do all things or it will do none of those things really well.
As you are starting off the thing that might be most importaint to you is cheep ammo so you can do a bunch of shooting. The 357 lever gun is the real winner here. 38's and 357s are reasonable and also about the easiest rounds to reload for real cheep shooting!
I would sugest a used gun and some reloading gear (single stage press) with the money you save over buying a new gun.
A 22 rifle first or soon after the centerfire is also something that will allow you to get in lots of cheep shooting.
As for add-ons the sling is allways good . I would sugest a standard peep sight over the gost ring. The peep allows very percise shooting and the appeture can be removed to use the sight base as an extra large gost ring type sight for low light hunting and the like. This is something hunters have been doing with lever guns for years! (once again what is new is old)
Where I live in the Northeast I know several guys who hunt whitetails very sucessfuly with 357 lever guns. Haveing both I would chose my 44 marlin
but the 357 at short northeast ranges isn't a bad choice
As you are starting off the thing that might be most importaint to you is cheep ammo so you can do a bunch of shooting. The 357 lever gun is the real winner here. 38's and 357s are reasonable and also about the easiest rounds to reload for real cheep shooting!
I would sugest a used gun and some reloading gear (single stage press) with the money you save over buying a new gun.
A 22 rifle first or soon after the centerfire is also something that will allow you to get in lots of cheep shooting.
As for add-ons the sling is allways good . I would sugest a standard peep sight over the gost ring. The peep allows very percise shooting and the appeture can be removed to use the sight base as an extra large gost ring type sight for low light hunting and the like. This is something hunters have been doing with lever guns for years! (once again what is new is old)
Where I live in the Northeast I know several guys who hunt whitetails very sucessfuly with 357 lever guns. Haveing both I would chose my 44 marlin
but the 357 at short northeast ranges isn't a bad choice
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Lots of good information here since my first reply. I've owned both Marlin lever guns in both .30-30 and .357, and at the same time. Both are great. I'm a deer hunter, and for that application, .30-30 is the better cartridge in my opinion. I personally find the .357 a bit light for hunting, even from a carbine/rifle. Can it do the job? Yes. Is it optimal for the task? No. So as a hunter, if I were only to have one rifle and the options were .30-30 versus .357, I'd take the .30-30.
But I have a reasonable collection of rifles that includes bolt actions. After several hunts with the .30-30, I found myself gravitating back to bolt actions and I eventually sold my Marlin 336 (sorry Nem; guess you should drop my name from the 336 Club list ...)
BUT ... I still have an older 1894C (.357), which is a great plinker. I've never hunted with it, and don't plan to. It is a range and casual use gun only. But it is a "hoot to shoot" as they say, and every collection needs at least one lever action.
So after reading all the replies, and your responses to a number of them, and especially noting your indication that you do NOT plan to hunt medium game, it sounds like the .357 has the edge.
But I have a reasonable collection of rifles that includes bolt actions. After several hunts with the .30-30, I found myself gravitating back to bolt actions and I eventually sold my Marlin 336 (sorry Nem; guess you should drop my name from the 336 Club list ...)
BUT ... I still have an older 1894C (.357), which is a great plinker. I've never hunted with it, and don't plan to. It is a range and casual use gun only. But it is a "hoot to shoot" as they say, and every collection needs at least one lever action.
So after reading all the replies, and your responses to a number of them, and especially noting your indication that you do NOT plan to hunt medium game, it sounds like the .357 has the edge.
I own two Marlin 336 rifles in .30-30 and I used to own an 1894C in .357 Mag. I really liked the 1894C -- it was accurate, had great balance, and lots of fun to shoot. Of course the same can be said for the 336.
One of the advantages of the .357 Mag is that you can use it to take small game, even deer within its effective range, but it doesn't have the extended range of a true rifle cartridge so is safer to use around your home property if you happen to live in a rural setting.
If you want to hunt deer-sized game you have some choices in ammo to consider. Typical 158 gr Soft Points are okay for deer within 75 yards or so, and Buffalo Bore offers some hotter, heavier loads. But to even approach the power of a .30-30 within 100 yards you will spend much more for ammo than you would for .30-30 (assuming commercial loads).
The .30-30 is obviously a fine hunting cartridge, and there are 125 gr Hollow Points available from Federal that would be a good choice for defensive use.
Prioritize your selection criteria and make your choice based on that:
.357 Mag compared to .30-30:
Pros:
Cheaper to shoot unless you buy the hot, heavy loads
Higher capacity
Safer around the homestead
Better for plinking
Share ammo with revolver (MAYBE, but not as big an advantage as you might think)
Cons:
Less power, resulting in less effective range
Not as suitable as a hunting cartridge
Oh and as for sights, I recommend a good aperture sight. For a ghost ring with large diameter XS Sights are very good. Skinner sights are another good choice that offer a screw-in aperture for more precise shooting. A blade or post front sight is better than a bead for a lot of shooters since it allows more precise judgement of elevation. Both companies offer front sights to go with their rear apertures.
One of the advantages of the .357 Mag is that you can use it to take small game, even deer within its effective range, but it doesn't have the extended range of a true rifle cartridge so is safer to use around your home property if you happen to live in a rural setting.
If you want to hunt deer-sized game you have some choices in ammo to consider. Typical 158 gr Soft Points are okay for deer within 75 yards or so, and Buffalo Bore offers some hotter, heavier loads. But to even approach the power of a .30-30 within 100 yards you will spend much more for ammo than you would for .30-30 (assuming commercial loads).
The .30-30 is obviously a fine hunting cartridge, and there are 125 gr Hollow Points available from Federal that would be a good choice for defensive use.
Prioritize your selection criteria and make your choice based on that:
.357 Mag compared to .30-30:
Pros:
Cheaper to shoot unless you buy the hot, heavy loads
Higher capacity
Safer around the homestead
Better for plinking
Share ammo with revolver (MAYBE, but not as big an advantage as you might think)
Cons:
Less power, resulting in less effective range
Not as suitable as a hunting cartridge
Oh and as for sights, I recommend a good aperture sight. For a ghost ring with large diameter XS Sights are very good. Skinner sights are another good choice that offer a screw-in aperture for more precise shooting. A blade or post front sight is better than a bead for a lot of shooters since it allows more precise judgement of elevation. Both companies offer front sights to go with their rear apertures.
Shawnee
member
"...with see-through rings..."
ACK !!!
:banghead:
NO "see-through rings" - NONE - ZIP - NADA - ZERO - DON'TCHUDARE !!!
11th Commandment: Thou Shall NOT EVER use, buy, touch, look at or speak of "see-through scope rings". They are the work of Da Debil. It is a first degree felony.
ACK !!!
:banghead:
NO "see-through rings" - NONE - ZIP - NADA - ZERO - DON'TCHUDARE !!!
11th Commandment: Thou Shall NOT EVER use, buy, touch, look at or speak of "see-through scope rings". They are the work of Da Debil. It is a first degree felony.
rbernie
Contributing Member
I voted 30/30 because today's view of how you'll use a rifle is almost always less than complete, and there is no sense not buying a chambering with as broad a performance envelope as possible.
If you get a plinker - it'll always be a plinker. It might be capable of some game gatherin' use with specialty loads, but in the end it's always going to be a plinker stetched to the limits of its performance envelope. If, on the other hand, you get something that maybe is a bit more expensive on a shell-for-shell basis but which has a broader performance envelope, you're likely to find that you start exploring that envelope more fully. That's been my experience, anyway.
You want cheap practice? Get a 10/22 and a bazillion bricks of bulk-pack ammo. You want a rifle that can be used for almost anything that a rifle can be used for? Get a Marlin 336 in 30/30.
SSN Vet
Member
this is #2 on my rifle wish list.....
but I'm not about to give up my 336C .30-30 to get one.
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