First Rifle - .357 or .30-30

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Brassrain, I am also young,just turned 25, and have been working on getting into all this. I have two .30-30's one a 336 marlin and the other a Winchester 94. I love them both the Marlin is the gun I show people and say"look at this beauty" the 94 rides in the truck and shoots at any safe target when it is available. I am looking at a .357 rifle now for the same reason as you because I am abot to buy a .357 revolver. If you come across either and they are in good shape for a good price get it. More than likely you will get the other later. Also start reloading it can be done cheap. P.M. and i will tell ya about my setup.
 
Glass1785, get a 243. You will be happier and it can litterally reach out to 400 yds and it splatters coyotes. Don't waste your time thinking about a 30-30 or even the 357 in a rifle. You will be shooting a distances that are frequently past the practical limits of a 30-30 in terms of accuracy. 223 works too out to about 250 yds if you are up to the task. Yotes are not hard to kill if you hit them in the front shoulders.

If you want a fun gun that won't make those 200 yd shots, go with the 1894 in 357. I want a 1894, but I want one in 41 magnum, not 357 or 44 mag. I would not use the 41 for coyotes either unless it was a shot of opportunity that just happens.

Brass Rain. It seems you are talking yourself into the 357. I think it is your better choice and you can plink with it with 38spl ammo. You won't do much plinking with a 30-30 no matter how much you think you will now. 357 is very easy to reload if you go that way later, just save your brass.
 
....

You won't do much plinking with a 30-30 no matter how much you think you will now.
Click to expand...

:uhoh:

I've had 336 30-30 for many years that I plink with atleast twice a month.

I like shooting steel gongs with it at 200 and 300 yards. Very cool ringing that steel using just the stock iron sights. I really enjoy the looks of dismay from the tacti-cool kids club, as the lowly 30-30 repeatedly makes the metal go "clang"! :p

So plinking 30-30 is certainly doable. Fed PowerShok 170gr can still be found for 10 something a box, and reloading is an even better option.

Of course I like plinking the 7.62x54r HB too. :D
 
Okay, I think I've come to a conclusion, if only a temporary one.

And I think I'll pick....

*Drum roll.*

The .30-30 Winchester. Possibly this Marlin: http://www.impactguns.com/store/026495015107.html

I was reading that quote by Admiral Yamomoto about the posibillity of an invasion on the US. And he said there was a rifleman behind every blade of grass. And a rifle in a pistol cartridge isn't a rifle. I know there are several advantages the .357 has, but the big one is economy and plinking abilities for which I have a Ruger 10/22. The .357 is a big leap from the .22 but not as big of a leap as the .30-30. And of course .30-30 is more expensive, but when I shoot long guns I have to travel quite a distance until I get a membership at a rifle range around me. And .30-30 isn't expensive, it's just not cheap.

But I hereby offer my extreme thanks to everyone that helped. I learned a great deal more about both cartridges, lever rifles, different bullets for different purposes, and rifles in general. You're all hereby awesome.
 
OK, I've read all the posts...

And most of the comments are good and accurate. However I would like to bring up a couple of points no one else has yet (and I'm not talking about Bufflo bore loads vs. anything else).

First, considering the .357 carbine (I have one, 1894 Marlin). Being young, you should check in your local area about the hassles for an under 21 year old getting "pistol ammo". It should not be a problem, as you have a rifle, but some localities and some businesses have rules against selling "pistol" ammo to anyone under 21.

Another thought is, if you are not wedded to the idea of a new rifle, you can often find some superior caliber rifles for good prices in the used racks at shops or gunshows. Many times you can find a used but perfectly serviceable .30-06 for less than the price of a new .30-30.

Of the two choices you list, you would likely be better served with the .357, for plinking, small game, and urban defense situations. Not as powerful as the .30-30, true, but adequate under 100yards for everything you mention, and then some. Once you get into shooting something more than a .22, it opens up a whole new world, both in capability, and (sadly) in cost. In the carbine, the .357 has a very mild recoil, significantly less than the .30-30, and to a beginning shooter, this can be important also. Many try to do too much too fast, and wind up never reaching their potential due to flinch or other problems that never would have come up if they had approached it differently.

Don't be too over concerned with the range limitations, the true range of any gun is a combination of what you can see, how well you know your guns trajectory, and how good you are at estimating range and wind conditions. Most people aren't as good as they think they are, but a few are better that it appears humanly possible. They get that way through practice, and using their head as more than just a place to hold their eyes and a connection to their trigger finger. Nobody (except those with a rare gift) starts out good, you get good by shooting, and by thinking about each shot.

If I were hunting deer/black bear/hogs, I would choose the .30-30 over the .357. Anything less, I would choose the .357. It does the job, has less recoil, holds more rounds, ammo is (still) cheaper, and it is just more fun to shoot, and with .38s is better on edible small game. I own both a 336 and an 1984 (and an 1895 .45-70 too,) but for everything you listed, overall the .357 will do just fine, and it is a shorter, slightly lighter rifle as well. You can get the .30-30 later, or you just might decide to move up to an even more powerful rifle after you have some more experience. Either one will do you right, and serve well within the limits of the gun and your ability. Good Luck, with whatever you choose.
 
Good choice! I'd look for used over new as a way of saving $$, but you can't go wrong. A truly classic American firearm:)

You have to promise to post pictures of whatever you end up buying:D

Now you have to start worrying about what your NEXT purchase will be...:neener:
 
Pine Cone:

"Now you have to start worrying about what your NEXT purchase will be..."

Well I think with today's idiot politicians an AK or AR would be a natural choice.

But I also love tacticool black shotguns...

:D
 
I wish you luck. I still do not plink with centerfire calibers other than the occasional magazine full. I have shot 500 rounds (and more) of 223 in an afternoon and afterwards the thrill is gone and I keep reminding myself that I just blew 100's of dollars for nothing or perhaps a little thrill.

You're almost 18 and when I was that age, every penny mattered and nobody was handing me $100 to blow away at the range or even offereing to fill up my car with gas. I cringe now when I go to the gas station and fill up and believe me I make a lot more money now than I did when I was 18.

So, enjoy what you choose. The 357 is a better choice for you.
 
The .30-30 Winchester. Possibly this Marlin: http://www.impactguns.com/store/026495015107.html
Click to expand...

Brass,

Even though I tried to steer you towards .357 mag,
I ended by saying you can't go wrong with either .30-30 or .357 mag.

Your tentative choice is totally solid.
As a 336 owner, I strongly approve.
All the better that it's a Marlin. ;)

Go with your intuition. If it feels right, do it.
You can always add a different one later.

Just one recommendation: that Marlin in that ad has a golden trigger
and is advertised as having a "hardwood" stock.
That suggests a 336W since 336C doesn't have a gold trigger,
and has a walnut stock which isn't described as "hardwood" but as "American walnut".

If it's a 336W, it's way overpriced at 384.
336W can be had at Walmart for just over 300.

Only pay 384 for a 336C with walnut stock.
Contact the seller to make sure it's not a 336W.
Get it in writing. Otherwise, go to Walmart.

Nem
 
Nematocyst, the Impact Guns page states, " Manufacturer Item #: 336W."

Good catch. Personally, I really like used (not abused) rifles. Some of them don't have crossbolt pseudosafeties. There's time to look around, too: Brass has until July 13 to find one. ;)
 
Good eye, Brian. I missed that.

Nothing wrong with a 336W.
Just don't pay 384 for one.

Brass, yes, 336 is an excellent choice.
A bunch of folks over here will tell you the same thing. ;)

I understand and respect your indecision. I appreciate your research.
I do the same before making decisions about new guns
even though I catch flak for it.
The fact that you're examining
options this closely is a mark of a discerning person.

Based on your original post, I still think that the .357 mag
is a reasonable choice for you. But as 44AMP notes,
before you do that, check to see that you can buy ammo for it.

But again, there's absolutely no way you can go wrong with either.
That's a very enviable position to be in.

You can't do wrong with either.

Like William Wallace's father said
to him in a dream after death
in the Mel Gibson film Braveheart,
Follow your heart; it will set you free.
 
Discerning, yes. I've researched every gun on my list and it's a fair-sized list.

And I can completely see the many positive points for the .357 and am still thinking about it. It would serve a better role as a "fighting rifle" I think, at short ranges at least. Still has decent penetration and can probably pierce car doors and stuff. Not that I expect to be in armed combat any time soon, but you prepare for the worst and hope for the best, right?

Dang it, now I'm at 50/50 for each one again...

I guess when I said I've decided I meant I think I have all the information I could get and now just have to figure out what's best for me. People can keep giving me things to cosider, though.

And the .357 being pistol ammo could be a problem. All these school shootings have people worried about things like that... No one behind a counter at Wal Mart would say anything if I asked to buy bullets for a "deer gun" but if I try to buy Magnum ammo... I don't know.
 
You can also get a .357 from Puma. It is the Winchester 1982 design, which is now in the public domain. They are well-regarded rifles, and the 1892 is considered among the strongest and smoothest. One thing I like about these rifles is how compact they are. The .357 with a 16" barrel is several inches shorter and is lighter than the Marlin. Me, I like compact for the kind of rifle you want.

http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_carbines.html

A review of the Puma:
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

As for buying ammo - just buy a bunch at one time so you won't get hassled at home. Or order it online.

Oh yeah - one last thing. Whatever rifle you buy, get a good aftermarket aperture sight; all of them come with inadequate blade sights. I like the XS sights, myself. Receiver-mounted aperture sights almost double the sight radius, and increase your accuracy dramatically.
 
I'll second Roscoe's recommendation on the XS Sights for whichever you choose. I have them on my 39a and love them. I still need to replace the Williams side mount peep sight on my 336 .35 Rem with them. http://www.xssights.com

If you like leverguns the Browning is also worth a look. Unlike the other styles on the market the trigger moves with the lever so you don't have to reposition your finger and you don't run the risk of pinching it. The Brownings also come in handy takedown models. You'll have to expand your caliber selection though.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=003B&catalog_=B

I still think your best bet right now is the .357 in a light handy Marlin 1894.
 
Hi Brass...

You're in an enviable position - you've narrowed it down to two good cartridges and a couple good rifles. It would be hard for you to make a mistake even if you just flipped a coin.

Chance are very good that you'll shoot the .357 more - and if you decide to hunt you can always get a 30/30 later and - remember - shots with your 30/30 at larger game animals like deer/hogs/black bear are usually not even a box a year so the 30/30 is really your "niche gun" while the .357 will be your "Have a Ball" gun.

You could also hunt deer and wild hogs with the .357 if you limit the range to about 50yds. And in many areas 50yds. would be one of the longer shots you'd get anyway, especially with hogs. The .357 also offers quite a few more bullet/ammo choices and, of course, will shoot inexpensive .38 Specials for paperpunching.

Either way, though, you'll be just fine ! And don't ever let anyone tell you the 30/30 isn't a fine caliber for the American hunter. Truth is: It's one of the very best.

Good Luck, and Enjoy!

:cool:
 
I vote 30/30 as well. Have my dad's,...a waayyy pre-64,....and my first one still, along with a few other Win LA's as well,...I am on the dark side of 50+,...have used them all for many years, and they have never left me hanging. My most recent is a .44 magnum 16" barreled Trapper,...to match my Ruger SBH,...the Trapper can and has taken deer at 100 yards, and I often use .44 Specials in it as well. Isn't making choices great??
 
I thought in my last post that you should go with the .357 too, but if you have a .22 already, cheap shooting is yours for the taking.

Of the two, I'd probably go with the 30-30.
 
The little 1894s in .357 are both popular and pricey.

I think you could buy a 336 in .30-30 and a Lee start up reloading kit for the same money as the 1894 in .357.

sotck up on .30-30 in the Fall, as the major mfgs. offer $5 off coupons for each 20 round box of ammo.

save your brass....you'll want it some day.
 
Quote:
If you want to push the accuracy of a .30-30 levergun to the max, I suggest the 336XLR as a starting point. Mine was very accurate right out of the box, especially with LeverEvolution ammo.

Problem is, you end up with a big, heavy rifle.

Much as I like Marlin lever guns, that kinda defeats the purpose IMO.
Click to expand...

I see your point, the XLR is a bit heavier due to the longer barrel. However, I find the rifle balances very nicely and doesn't seem the least bit unwieldy when handling. Besides, I also have a shortened 336C to fill that quick-handling carbine niche.
 
Shawnee: Funny you should mention flipping a coin because I've actually tried that several times, but no matter the result I was never completely happy.

goon: Yes, I have access to chep shooting. And if I got the .357 my next rifle would end up being a Mosin. If I got the .30-30 my next rifle would be an AR/AK and that's something I need to get really soon. Like... before November '09.

SSN Vet: Oh I always save my brass if I can. I don't know why but I practically collect the stuff. Unless I'm at the range and it's a semi-auto that throws the shells fifty feet behind me to mix with everything else.

Z Infidel: I was thinking of the use of the rifle changing depending on which caliber I got. If it was a .357 then a handy, semi-tactical carbine. If it was a .30-30 then a short-range designated marksman rifle.
 
I'm glad I have both so I don't have to worry about answering this question! I have a Marlin 336RC in 30-30, and a Winnie 1894 in .357mag.
 
Brass Rain, being for La. myself I know how popular the 30-30 is there, as it is here in MO.. It will never be a bad choice.

I have his and hers Marlin 357 carbines. They are very fun rifles. But to be honest, since I've moved to the country they have been safe queens. Why? Because since I've moved to the country when I carry a rifle I want a real rifle. The 30-30 fills that bill, the 357 doesn't.

What are my go to rifles. First is my BLR 308. (Mine has the straight stock not the fugly pistol grip stock.) I get the good solid lever action feel, a detachable mag., and a cartridge that isn't down loaded because of the older guns out there. Yes this is a new dynamic to this thread. I just though I would throw it out there.

If your heart is set of a 30-30, go for it. It's a great round, and Marlin makes a great gun.
 
Hot loaded 357 can get close to 30-30 energies at the muzzle.
Click to expand...


You can hotload a 30-30 too so the differences would get re-established....


You don't have to buy Buffalo Bore or Double Tap hot .357 rounds. You can load them yourself at home for a fraction of the price with Hodgdon's Lil'gun or H110.
Click to expand...


I looked extensively at the Hodgdon reload data center with dozens of different load combinations (from light to super hot) for the .357 out of a carbine barrel and I have found nothing that get even close to the numbers that Buffalo Bore seems to obtain....again Buffalo Bore "magical results" are the exception not the rule...all the other ammo manufacturers and reload data mention energy levels for the .357 at the muzzle that are at half or, at best, just a bit more than half compared to the 30-30....the 357 Magnum ballistically is comparable to a .30 Carbine round...


What has more energy at 200yrds? (All are Remington Express SP loads)

7.62x39 125gr SP (ME 1552)

.30-30 150gr SP (ME 1982)

.223 55gr SP (ME 1282)

?????????????????????????????


Here's a Hint, it's not the Popular US cartridges!


200yrds:

x39 - 882
-30 - 858
.223 - 648

400yrds

x39 - 483
-30 - 399
.223 - 295

Hrmmm, but x39 sucks for hunting deer past 100yrds, and .30-30 can take down an elk at 200?

Physics don't lie, X39 WINS!
Click to expand...

The 30-30 is definitely not an Elk gun in its "traditional" form (you still can get an Elk with it if you are very very good...but it is beside the point)

In the Hornady Leverevolution format, a 160 gr. 30-30 spitzer bullet retains 1304 ft/lb at 200 yards.

That is well over 400 ft/lb more than a 7,62 X 39 and with a bullet 35 gr. heavier which translates in better sectional density (better penetration)....yes in the Leverevolution package the 30-30 can be definitely considered an entry-level Elk gun..

That said, the 7,62 X 39 is a damn good hunting round...
 
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