For Personal Defense .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum 6"

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MagnumDweeb

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Towards the middle of December I got a used but loved S&W 19-4. It was a part payment for painting the outside of a house, with three hundred cash. It was old gunnie making a sale so his wife would allow him to get another one, something about two dozen plus handguns made her feel that if he wanted a new one he'd have to part with an old one. I knew the seller quite well, the original sale was for $200 but became part of a payment for painting the house after the sale was completed. Florida, private face to face sale.

Now I put up a previous post and someone mentioned that the 19-4s had been rumored to not be able to handle some of the recent 124grain loads because they were a little too hot but the usual 158 grain loads were perfectly fine. There was a risk of the forcing cone cracking I believe the poster mentioned. I've thought of contacting S&W and asking them what loads in .357 Magnum were best.

I'm currently waiting on a return letters from the local sheriff and Department of Agriculture, about the use of shoulder holsters and not having to remove the gun from the holster and put it in the glove box (the gun wouldn't fit in my Durango glove box) and being able to keep it in the shoulder holster with lawful abidance. If I can then the 19-4 will likely travel with me and my Rossi 461 snub 2" .357 (and yes I use magum JHP loads and double tap the eight ring at fifteen yards and four or six ring at twenty yards).

But looking at the utility of such an extra gun on hand made me think "If I have one for point A (defense of immediate person in close proximate defense, which the snub serves excellently) then should there be a point B for the second."

The 6" barrel makes the revolver, with .38 special, an excellent target shooter (And certainly a tame and lovalble shooter with .357 magnum) at twenty yards with one shot one second in double action, double taps are a dream. In single action it's almost impossible to go outside the eight ring on my rifle targets. So mayhaps it would best serve as a gun to be used in "defense of others" kind of situations where lethal force might be justified but accuracy is incredibly important. Like the Kangaroo Gas Station self-defense shooting that just happened, where making sure one knew where the bullets were going was quite important.

Now a lot of folks might say "It's a .357, use .357" and others will say ".38 Special out of 6 inch barrel is not something I'd want to stand in front of."

I'm thinking some Powerball .38 Special might make a nice, not likely to over-penetrate, fight stopper. Or maybe mixing it with some of the Gold Dot GDJSP .38 +Ps. If they don't drop after two dosses of Powerball , give them the rest.

Anyone use .38 special for SD in revolver that are not snubs, most folks I know that carry only .38 special do so in snub revolvers.
 
In my experience, chronographing 38 special loads out of revolvers chambered in either 38 special or 357, I've found a trend for a small decrease in velocity in the 357 revolvers, approx. 25 fps. In other words, nothing significant.

Also I'm quite confident in the 38 special as a defense round, especially in +P loads such as the 158 grain lead hollow point (FBI load) and the newer Speer 135 grain JHP. In a six inch revolvers you will get the most out of these cartridges. One of my HD guns is a Smith 686, so I'm not adverse to using the 38-in-.357 combo.

In closing let me discuss something you've said, if I read you correctly, you want a gun for longer range SD shooting. I'm of the opinion that you are asking for a lot of legal trouble if you engage in a long range shooting war, justifiable lethal shooting is close-up and personal. I think that unless you leave powder burns on your attacker you have lots of explaining to do to a jury.
 
In my four-inch Taurus 66, Remington 125gr SJHP +P load. In my Charter Arms Undercover (non-plus-P rated), Winchester 158gr JFN ("Target" load.)
Both guns were purchased new in 1987. The Taurus is primarily a HD gun; the Undercover is on my hip right now..
 
yep...Remington 158gr lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint .38 spl +p; currently loaded in my S&W 642 snubby, Ruger Security Six 4" barrel, and Ruger Blackhawk 6.5" barrel
 
Ditto on that 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter with a hollow core from Buffalo Bore. I can fire six rounds of that out of my 4" and 6" revolvers with very mild recoil and excellent accuracy. If that doesn't work, the speedloaders have 145 gr. .357 Silvertips loaded.
 
I shoot full power magnums in my 19. Always have.

Keep the gun clean. One theory is that carbon deposits in the forcing cone can contribute to cracking.
 
Now I put up a previous post and someone mentioned that the 19-4s had been rumored to not be able to handle some of the recent 124grain loads because they were a little too hot but the usual 158 grain loads were perfectly fine. There was a risk of the forcing cone cracking I believe the poster mentioned.

Whoever said it couldn't handle "recent" loads was quite wrong. When this particular rumor has been chased down to it's origins, the offending source was a 125gr. loading that SuperVel made in the early to late 70s. It was considerably hotter than competitors (Does "SuperVel" sound like a reason?), and it had the distinction of being adopted by many LE agencies before the problem was found. Guns were cracked, theories were invented, and bad rumors were started.

So, unless you routinely shoot '70s vintage SuperVel lightweight projectile factory ammo in .357, shoot whatever "recent" ammo you want. Also, don't load your own ammo well past SAAMI spec. If that is the ammo you want to shoot, get a S&W 27, 28, 696, or a large frame Ruger that can reliably do + pressure rounds for development. But you didn't hear that advice from me.

As to what SD round I put in my 19/66's - I use an expanding SJHP in .357. If you aren't comfortable with that, any good expanding .38 like a Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, or Hornady XTP will do well.
 
I like the soft lead Remington R38S12 .38 Special +P 158gr LHPSWC for my snubbies - it makes 840 fps from my 2" 10 & 642. The harder lead Georgia Arms version, a reload at a fraction of the cost, mimmics the Remington's ballistics. I keep the short barrels stoked with the Remi's, the GA Arms being used for practice and the longer barrels. BTW, the velocity picked up a bit to 912 fps from my old, now gone (sigh...), 3" 65 - and 990 fps from my 5" 686+ half-lugger - and a tad more from my 6" 66 (a SS 19). I imagine the GA Arms harder lead would be fine from a 4" or longer barrel. Of course, the 19 or 66 forcing cone is fine for modern .357M ammo. Try the GA Arms rounds.

Stainz
 
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