Friend against carrying

[Gus Dddysgrl]

I'm sure it's here somewhere.

I was talking to a friend. She is not against guns, but she doesn't think people should be carrying around guns. Also is major big on safety. She has a 2-y-o and is afraid of the girl getting into things and hurting herself. She said guns should be locked up and not carried. What good does a locked gun do?

Also she said that there's no reason to carry a gun since someone could take it from you. I tried to tell her that I'd rather have a gun than a knife or something else like that. (She is quite naive too.) Also she said it isn't a neccesity to carry a gun.:banghead:

So my question is how can I try and convince her that carrying a gun is good and safe? No matter what I said she countered with a weak arguement and still wasn't convinced. She said something like the bad guys will get them and do more harm than it would if you had it to protect yourself. (I did say that bad guys will still get guns.):banghead:

Gus

 

[ArmedBear]

First off, she's right that guns that a 2-year-old could get her hands on should be locked up, just like paint thinner, electrical outlets, etc., when there's a toddler in the house. Acknowledge this. This takes precedence over the less likely chance that a gun will be needed for defense, if you do not have control of the gun (i.e. it is not on your person) and the kid is nosing around. Every safety-related decision involves choices, and they should be made as responsibly and rationally as possible.

Second, tell her that, if you carry the gun, it's in your personal control at all times. Since you are a responsible, intelligent person, with knowledge, practice and training, that's a pretty safe place for it to be. It's available for defensive use -- this saves lives EVERY DAY in the US -- but it is also in the hands of someone who will make sure that it will not be MISused.

This may not totally convince her, but it sure sounds better than "What good does a locked gun do?" when what she's thinking about is keeping her child from tragedy. As a young mother of a small child, she sees things a bit differently from you or me, and she has more complex safety issues to consider and weigh against each other. I only have adults around me.

 

[f4t9r]

Some people are not going to be convinced and not worth the time arguing.
everyone has different beliefs , more power to them.
Personally I like guns and think they are safe when in the right hands.

 

[AnnaTrocity]

I figure if the badguy can take my gun away just like that then I should be able to take it back every bit as easily.

Most people don't seem to understand that getting a weapon away from someone is a little tougher then they make it seem in the movies.

 

[Shear_stress]

I agree that you just can't reach some folks. It's up to you whether or not it's worth trying. Even if you don't convince her outright, it shouldn't be any skin off your back. Carry isn't for everyone, but you can at least set a good example.

 

[spacemanspiff]

is she hot?


ask her what her plan is should she be attacked? will she scream for help? dial 911? throw her kid on the ground and run for it?

need to see what kind of thought process your friend has given to the threat of physical violent attack. most people would rather not live in a society that has such threats that necessitate the diligent law abiding citizen to be armed as we are. but we cant go through life pining for a utopia free of crime. we have to play with the cards life has dealt us. throwing our cards in is simply not an option if we wish to win.

 

[Brian Williams]

She hasn't been attacked or mugged yet. Keep working on her, she might turn arond someday...

Hey Gus, today I said something about SanFran passed a handgun ban and your mom said something to the effect.. "Now the criminals will have it easier..."

 

[Gunpacker]

Since she holds the views she has, ask her what the basis of those views is. Ask her to explain, then ask her leading questions that undercut those arguments. When she can't answer the questions logically, she should at least admit that her reasoning is simply emotion with no basis in fact.

 

[hso]

Don't pressure her.

Find the ways you can agree with her. Guns in the home with small children should be secured like fire extinguishers,paint thinner and insect spray. Help her child proof her house. Explain how you will child proof your house when she and her daughter come over. Show her how easy it is for someone to secure a handgun and other firearms from a curious intelligent child. Put her mind at ease on this issue.

Find all the credible statistics and studies on firearms ownership and use. Don't give them to her, but be ready at any moment to provide the reference. If you've got a Palm or cell phone load the URLs into it so that you don't have to fumble around. Use the AWB sunset and the statistics to show that in this case the propaganda against EBR ownership was just that, hysterical propaganda. NEVER talk about the motive for all of this being the subjigation of the population or anything that sounds remotely tin-foil-hat like. If the question of motive comes up it's much easier to believe that fear and ignorance coupled with greed and political avarice is the motivation.

Does she know anyone that has been sexually assaulted? Sadly, most people do (I know two). Ask how they dealt with the rapes. How are they doing now? What did they do to pick up their lives and go on with them? What happened to the rapist? She'll ask you about how you would have dealt with it. You'll be able to tell her.

Check out her car. See if she has a phone charger, flares or reflectors, blanket, fire extinguisher, bottled water, knows how to change a tire. Find out if she's ever broken down on the side of the road. What would she do? What would she do if her daughter was with her? Would she be willing to defend the child? What would she do to defend her?

Don't push any of this, but let her think. Don't tell her things. Ask her questions. Then answer hers.

You can't counter years of propaganda and victim's attitude in just a few minutes. You've got to expect to make an effort.

 

[Zundfolge]

Also she said that there's no reason to carry a gun since someone could take it from you.

I always love that argument.

So let me get this straight ... its so easy to take a gun away from someone, but only if your a criminal ... a criminal with a gun isn't in danger of having his gat ripped out of his hands by his victim but if you use a gun for self defense the criminal has some sort of superpowers and can snatch guns from the hands of their victims or at least are brave enough to try it?

If it where so easy to take a gun away from someone (especially while its pointed at you) than why wouldn't it happen to the criminals enough that they would just stop robbing people?


Why is it you never see a two thugs sitting around talking about "...naw man, you don't wanna rob someone with a gun! They'll just take it away from you!"?

 

[Gus Dddysgrl]

Well I did agree that the guns should be locked with her daughter around and with a second one on the way. I told her that. I also told her that I control what's in my possession.

She lives a sheltered life. She hardly goes out without her hubby and I wouldn't mess with him. She's very protected. I told her that if she was ever out on her own and something happened what would she do? She moved on to something else.

We were with a group and the conversation chenged quickly.

Hopefully next time it comes up I'll be able to present an arguement instead of being blown off to change the subject.

spaceman-she not that hot and she's pregnant. Plus she pregnant.

hso-I would have, but she changed the subject before I could make that arguement.

ArmedBear- I was thinking about her kid and her, What would happen to her daughter if she was attacked. Too bad she isn't really proactive about anything.

BW-really? mom? We may be making some progress.

Gus

 

[Standing Wolf]

She can't be very concerned about her daughter, or she'd take action to protect her.

Some people just aren't in very close touch with reality.

 

[bakert]

Sure, guns can be dangerous around children but with a bit of common sense they're not near as dangerous and other things in the home. Dad's power tools, cooking things on a stove, electrical appliances and a lot of household cleaners. As far as changing someones mind about guns, it aint gonna happen except in a very few instances.

 

[GDDYUP]

Hello fellow THR folks! I'm a newbie here so I figured I'd say "Hi!" before I threw out my thoughts on this first of my replies..

I like and +1 hso's approach. Don't try to change her mind on the issue. If you try to come right out and do that, chances are you'll fail miserably. Most of the people who feel the way your friend does reply soley on emotion and not fact or experience. The best thing to do is to try and educate her about firearms ownership, responsibility, and safety. Get your facts and persent them in a non-offending, non-overwhelming manner. Engage her in casual discussion about it and ask her real world questions. Don't try to change her mind. Just educating her may go a long way and at least get her to think about the world that surrounds her.

 

[joab]

So my question is how can I try and convince her that carrying a gun is good and safe? No matter what I said she countered with a weak arguement and still wasn't convinced. She said something like the bad guys will get them and do more harm than it would if you had it to protect yourself. (I did say that bad guys will still get guns.)

Why should you convince her that your way is the only correct position on the issue?
What would your response be if she tried to force her anti attitude on you?
If she avoids the conversation that is a good indication that she has her mind set and doesn't want a confrontation with you on the matter.
You should respect her views as you expect her to repect your's.

 

[nipprdog]

have her read this book.

http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1775

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Rational arguments do not work with irrational people.

 

[thumbody]

Gus
While a gun might be used against it's owner, one of the most used weapons that a criminal takes from a victim and uses against a them is their own clothing.
More rape /murder victims are found killed with thier own bras pantyhose,belts, etc than are shot with any gun (their own or one the criminal brought with them).
Curtain drawstrings and phone cords are also often used, so ask if she is prepared to get rid of all of the other things that could be used against her.

 

[orionengnr]

Quote...
"Why should you convince her that your way is the only correct position on the issue?
What would your response be if she tried to force her anti attitude on you?
If she avoids the conversation that is a good indication that she has her mind set and doesn't want a confrontation with you on the matter.
You should respect her views as you expect her to repect your's."

Oh, that one is easy. The best reason to change as many minds as possible is because the anti's don't only want to change people's minds.

They want to deprive us of our rights.

All they need is a majority (or a vocal minority supported by a sympathetic press), and a willing electorate (or judiciary).

 

[Gunpacker]

Hey Zundfolge,

Zundfolge, I really like your argument. I hadn't really thought of that.
"naw man, you don't want to use a gun, they'll take it away from you."

 

[Jubei]

I sincerely hope that your friend or her children never run into a situation that puts them in harms way. Better that she live her life with her false smugness than to be proven wrong by becoming a victim.

I've found that it's futile to argue with a person that is dead-set against guns or carrying. They don't or refuse to understand the logic to it, and will usually resort to the "what about the children" defense. It is sometimes amusing to argue with them though. The only thing that I might say to your friend is; "In the animal kingdom, mothers will fight tooth and nail to protect their young. They'll kill or drive off the aggressor(s) or die trying. It's too bad that you don't feel the same way about your children."

Jubei

 

[beaucoup ammo]

HSO Post #9

This is a reply I'll print and use..excellent on all fronts.

Take Care

 

[geekWithA.45]

2 year olds DO get into everything, and show little regard for their survival. When mine where that age, I was constantly watching them, making split second decisions whether what was about to happen was likely to cause significant damage, or whether it was an opportunity for them to encounter the natural consequences of the situation.

Believe me, diving to the rescue of a 2 year old flinging herself off a table is easy, no matter how busted up you get, as is jumping over the dog to prevent a door crushing a finger. (The dog forgave me for accidentally kicking him in the head in the process)

NOT intervening, knowing that your tyke is about to accrue a bump or scrape and all the tears that go with it is hard.

What's the relevance?

Your friend is deep into this mode, and this might not be the best time to try to convert her.

 

[Cosmoline]

Keeping your firearm on your person in your control is the safest way to keep a firearm.

 

[CombatArmsUSAF]

Naive, sheltered, ignorant. These are the kind of people that we are allowing to make decisions for us. Because so many of us that are educated don't do enough to get the correct information out there. When we run into somebody like this we need to do our best to change their minds, educate them, whatever you want to call it. You know why? Because she can cast here ballot on voting day just as easily as you and I can. If these type of people aren't educated they will vote for an idiot like kerry, or a bed-wetting liberal like hilary. Because in theory what they say sounds good. Unfortunately we do not live in an utopian society. We have rapists, muggers, child molesters, drug dealers, and so on that we need to protect ourselves from.

And for all of you that waste your votes on candidates that you know aren't going to win out of pure principle. IMHO you are irresponsible gun owners and citizens. That is just as bad as the "There isn't anyone I like for president" Crowd You not voting or voting for some BS party is allowing people like Bill Clinton to be elected. Regardless of your likes or dislikes or principles some one is going to win that election. And moving your support to a hopeless candidate is going to allow things like the brady ban and all of the other oppressions of the 2nd amendment to pass through right under your noses.

I for one will vote the lesser of two evils to avoid Hillary or anyone like her from ever getting into office. I enjoy my rights too much.

Sorry for getting off subject, I just got going and didn't stop until I was done