Gang activity is now a Homeland Security Threat??

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street gangs are a potential homeland threat...by their nature they are tribal and anti-authority and provide a vehicle for trafficking, etc.
BUT, in past some gangs have been an aid to the government...such as
"project L" in WW2 when Lucky Luciano aided the U.S. Navy (and got out of prison and a trip to Italy for his help). The facxt they could aid the government in Lucky's case is clear enough that they can also damage us.
 
More than half of them have been members of MS-13, a street gang rooted in Central America where members have been known to behead enemies and attack with grenades and machetes.
Sounds like a terrist problem to me. We've got to protect our borders. Got to. I was watching the news last week and saw a report on an attack in Nuevo Laredo (across the river from Laredo, Texas) in which an RPG was used along with the requisite auto AKs. I for one am certain that some of those criminals are operating here as the description and tactics of crimes of which I have read about here are not constistent with regular street thugs. Until we secure our borders and keep these wastes of sperm and egg out, we will not have "homeland security." This ain't the first time I've posted along this line of thought.

That said, "Department of Homeland Security" is one of the most Orwellian agency names I could imagine. It is no surprise that a department that is ostensibly geared toward protecting our borders is arresting gang members for illegal weapons, having illegal documents (forged receipt for a big screen teevee?) and whatever else only 76 out of 582 arrestees have been charged with. Notice that? Some were arrested as long as two weeks ago and haven't been charged? This seems to be the new protocol. If you are arrested by the Ministry of Homeland Security, you may or may not be charged, but you're ours now.

<snip factually incorrect snippet>

Lawdog, isn't the Feddle Bureau of Investigalation usually the one that investigates and arrests those involved in interstate criminal activity? It seems to me that Homeland Security would tip off the FBI and mention them along with the BATF, National Park Service Police, CIA, Podunk PD and anyone else involved. That's usually the way these Government Releases of Information to Citizens go, right? Is it common in your locale for those arrested to not be speedily arraigned? The fact is that this is a story all about the growing police power of the department created to protect against foreign threats, particularly Arab terrorists. Remember? Or did someone send that little fact down the merry memory hole? That this new power is being used now against street crime is the point of the post, not that illegal immigrants were caught. Don't try to skew the point. Illegals immigrants bad, violent gangs bad, immigration and customs officers acting out of their appointed jurisdiction scary. :banghead:

"We're just getting started," said ICE investigations chief Marcy Forman.
We know you are, Comrade. :rolleyes:
 
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Make up your sodding minds. Either you want the FedGov to start doing something about criminals sneaking over the border, or you don't, but pick one and stick with it.

Let's be clear. Anyone sneaking over the border is a criminal.

So let's get ALL of them. Let's not use "Homeland Security" selectively.

That's the concern. In this case they use Homeland Security for a good reason (although arresting a 1 member gang seems incongruous)

Maybe next time it's those pesky gun owners.

Heard someone on the radio refer to the Patriot act as "harmless".

They're using the latest London bombings as an excuse to check personal belongings on the NYC subway systems.

Those ridiculous DWI checkpoints have been around for a while . . . . .

National ID . . .

It's all a helluva lot like "show us your papers".

This is not good and will not do diddly to stop these wacko bombers.

It will however allow the many LE agencies to take whatever liberties they please with their new "powers".
 
What's the problem, again?
The problem is the way it's being done. The anti-terrorism laws should be used for, well, terrorism. Street crime--even gang crime--isn't terrorism. (How much of it could be eliminated by ending the War on Some Drugs is best left to another discussion.) When the scope of such laws as USA PATRIOT (hey, did you hear that in the House's renewal, they added medical records to the list of things the Feds can get?) creeps beyond the original intent, those laws become entrenched. In fact, the DoJ is counting on that--they've been encouraging FBI and local investigators to use its provisions wherever possible, even outside of terrorism cases. Things like political corruption cases:
The FBI confirmed Monday that agents used the Patriot Act to get financial records as part of the ongoing political corruption probe involving strip club owner Michael Galardi's influence with local politicians.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2003/nov/05/515822742.html

Of course, scope creep isn't a problem--I mean, we all hate political corruption, and anything's better than nothing, right? It's not like they're using the provisions to harass government watchdogs or anything, right?

Bev Harris--yes, that Bev Harris--would seem to disagree:
Bev Harris
BlackBoxVoting.org

And by the way, they read every word. Hi, agent Mike. This "investigation" no longer passes the stink test.

He says not to tell folks about the "investigating" they are doing.

I have cooperated ad nauseum to this absurd investigation of the "VoteHere hack" which looks to me like it is something entirely different. I'll tell you what it looks like to me:

A fishing expedition.

It appears that they may be using the Patriot Act to circumvent some of the civil rights protections laid down in the 60s. You see, it is illegal for a government agency to go in and demand the list of all the members of a group. And you can't investigate leaks to journalists by going in and grabbing the reporter's computer.

After the Diebold memos were leaked, and my web site was shut down, around the time of the California recall election, I started getting solicited to accept VoteHere software. I didn't bite, because it was obvious that this was an entrapment attempt.

...

Now, I have been interviewed by the Secret Service on this VoteHere "hack" story about five times. They never spend much time on the hack. Most of the time is spent on the Diebold memos, which they claim they are not investigating.

Here's the deal: The leaking of memos to journalists is not something the government can come in and demand to investigate very easily.

Under the Patriot Act, "hacking" crimes were turned over to a new division, called the CyberCrimes division, and placed under the auspices of the Secret Service. And let me tell you what they want from me now: They want the logs of my web site with all the forum messages, and the IP addresses. That's right. All of them. A giant fishing expedition for every communication of everyone interested in the voting issue. This has nothing to do with a VoteHere "hack" investigation, and I have refused to turn it over.

So, yesterday, they call me up and tell me they are going to subpeona me and put me in front of a grand jury. Well, let 'em. They still aren't getting the list of members of BlackBoxVoting.org unless they seize my computer -- which my attorney tells me might be what they have in mind.

[read the whole article--it's a doozy]
http://www.infowars.com/print/misc/blackbox.htm (Note that I didn't know about this one until I started writing this post.)

I fully support the idea of going after criminals. Those outside our jurisdiction are, well, outside our jurisdiction. As long as they stay there, leave them be. If they try to come in our jurisdiction, take them directly to processing, try them, convict them, and let them rot at the graybar hotel. Those in our jurisdiction, well, that's pretty easy. But whatever you do, don't start down the path of entrenching bad law and making police dependent upon it for every investigation. You really won't like the consequences.

Edit: Figured I'd add this little gem. The DoJ and FBI admit they've been encouraging scope creep.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/09/14/national1259EDT0480.DTL
The Justice Department said it has used authority given to it by the USA Patriot Act to crack down on currency smugglers and seize money hidden overseas by alleged bookies, con artists and drug dealers.

Federal prosecutors used the act in June to file a charge of "terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction" against a California man after a pipe bomb exploded in his lap, wounding him as he sat in his car.

A North Carolina county prosecutor charged a man accused of running a methamphetamine lab with breaking a new state law barring the manufacture of chemical weapons. If convicted, Martin Dwayne Miller could get 12 years to life in prison for a crime that usually brings about six months.

Prosecutor Jerry Wilson says he isn't abusing the law, which defines chemical weapons of mass destruction as "any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury" and contains toxic chemicals.

Civil liberties and legal defense groups are bothered by the string of cases, and say the government soon will be routinely using harsh anti-terrorism laws against run-of-the-mill lawbreakers.

"Within six months of passing the Patriot Act, the Justice Department was conducting seminars on how to stretch the new wiretapping provisions to extend them beyond terror cases," said Dan Dodson, a spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys. "They say they want the Patriot Act to fight terrorism, then, within six months, they are teaching their people how to use it on ordinary citizens."

[again, read the whole article; it's a good read]
 
People that think this is a bad thing are out of their minds. THis is some of the best news I have heard in a long time!! It is about time we start shipping these illegals back where they came from.
 
I guess my only question is where does the FBI stop and Homeland Security start? Granted I wasn't reading everything while they were putting it together but I never got the impression from the sales pitch on the new Homeland Security Agency that it was a new police force with unlimited jurisdiction. It just begs the question, what the hell is "homeland security"? I thought I knew what it meant, but this story got the same "huh?" reaction from me as it got from others.
 
Investigators picked up most of the offenders between July 16 and July 28 on immigration violations for being in the United States illegally. Seventy-six face criminal charges, ranging from illegal possession of a firearm to holding fraudulent documents.
I would rather see ICE agents picking up illegals than giving them travel guides at the border.

I would rather see ICE agents grabbing illegals who are gang members or violent criminals than snagging some carpenter building a house.

If the Orwellian juxtaposition of the words "Homeland Security" and "gang members" is the worst thing folks can complain about, then have at it.
 
(AP) Wire News Aug 1, 2008

Aug 1, 2008.
Today Homeland Security Marine forces raided the NRA headquarters based on a tip that militia members were part of the organizations membership.....
CT
 
First Rule of Lawmaking

Hide the real intent in the "pursuant to" and "in accordance with", "notwithstanding", "except as provided in", etc. Avoid narrow definitions or specific statements of purpose.

Any expressed concerns about abuse can just be waved off with assurances that officials would never do that and implications that one is silly, offensive, or paranoid to have such concerns. Righteous indignation works especially well.

I think the broadening of application of the RICO statutes is an excellent case in point. Whether of not officials are doing "the right thing" is beside the point. Broadening RICO Act application

It appears that we need to start over, defining the scope of "homeland security" and making it clear to what extent the federal government is maintaining "standing armies". The Constitution makes no provision I know of for free range "police". It does provide for defense of national sovereignty. It seems like some test of jurisdiction is needed here and a determination when an action is not military but rather directed to citizens and others to whom rights have been attributed. If there is a middle ground between State law enforcement and jurisdiction of genuine interstate commerce, then define it in the Constitution. Don't just make stuff up, leaving the actual Constitution a curious relic.
 
They're finally arresting illegal aliens, and it's the ones who most definitely are a threat to our security.

We already had immigration authorities. Let's not try to put a fashionable face on it...the same kind of spinning that comes out of Washington. If authority and jurisdictions have been redistributed under the umbrella of HSA, that's a different matter and perhaps a good answer.
 
Some of you may be thinking that groups such as MS-13 and the Mexican Mafia are pretty much like the garden variety street gangs you may have operating in your local urban areas ... Got news for you: they're not ... these are some seriously bad people, these groups are spreading and their activities surely fall under federal LE jurisdictions ...
 
Even so, I don't think they quite fall under the "terrorist" moniker. How many buildings have they brought down, or bombings of civilian (uninvolved--other gangs don't count) targets? I haven't heard any on the news.

As I, and others, have said, the problem isn't that they're going after these thugs, it's the tools they're using. Encouraging the use of anti-liberty laws for other than their intended purpose causes those laws to be accepted more readily, and leads to A) the laws sticking around, and B) more laws like them being passed. I still haven't seen any dispute on my (and others') allegations of scope creep having nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism. Throw in the secrecy element ("National Security! Can't See This!"), and you have a wonderful recipe for unaccountable government along with those broad and far-reaching powers.

Or am I mistaken?
 
The gangs the Feds are going after are extremely vicious and violent people, I would consider them more 'organized crime' than terrorists.

That being said, I understand why the Government is going after them. They are not terrorists (yet) simply because the opportunity has not presented itself, these people will do anything for money...anything. Because they operate over the border in several countries they are the prefect pipeline.

The government is try to cut them off at the pass and I hope they are successful.

The part that bothers me about using HSD is its obvious that this is selective/targeted enforcement and that the Governments position on illegal immigration hasn't realy changed.
 
More than half of them have been members of MS-13, a street gang rooted in Central America where members have been known to behead enemies and attack with grenades and machetes.

And people don't think this is a Homeland Security concern?


Latin America's Tri-Border Area (TBA), bounded by Puerto Iguazu, Argentina; Ciudad del Este, Paraguay; and Foz do Iguacu, Brazil, is an ideal breeding ground for terrorist groups.
[...]
The TBA, South America's busiest contraband and smuggling center, is home to a large, active Arab and Muslim community consisting of a Shi'a majority, a Sunni minority, and a small population of Christians who emigrated from Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and the Palestinian territories about 50 years ago. Most of these Arab immigrants are involved in commerce in Ciudad del Este but live in Foz do Iguacu on the Brazilian side of the Iguacu River.
[...]
Argentine officials believe Hezbollah is active in the TBA. They attribute the detonation of a car bomb outside Israel's embassy in Buenos Aires on 17 March 1992 to Hezbollah extremists. Officials also maintain that with Iran's assistance, Hezbollah carried out a car-bomb attack on the main building of the Jewish Community Center (AMIA) in Buenos Aires on 18 July 1994 in protest of the Israeli-Jordanian peace agreement that year.

Read it all
 
4 words....Make that six words for you all...

"Mission Creep" ....."Creeping Incrementalism"...."Slippery Slope" :scrutiny:

Yeah, after they get the "terrorists" and "gang members", I am sure that the government will simply get rid of the no longer needed vestiges of powers, abilities, and authority they usurped from the Constitution/People :uhoh: :rolleyes:....I mean come on, just look at how many laws affecting the GOVERNMENTS POWERS/ABILITIES THAT HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED AND NOT EXPANDED,(as it pertains to Civies) DURING OUR HISTORY :uhoh: ...

Don't give the government a Blank Check where our safety is concerned is the overwhelming sentiment I see in this thread. I will never trust a person/entity that has the power to ruin my life on a whim :) ...
 
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