Gangs w/full-auto Glocks--for real or urban legend?

[Henry Bowman]

I looked up their patent (5,705,763) which issued in 1998 (filed in 1996). It shows it to be a simple device that locks the striker in a forword position after the initial trigger pull and then releases the striker when the trigger is released. In other words, it goes into full slam-fire mode.

It would be simple to construct (the patent tells you exactly how to do it) and I'd bet that patent infringement liability is the least of a gang banger's worries.

I don't know how to post a copy of the patent here. If you want it or a link to the US Patent and Trademark Office online version, PM me.

which leads me to wonder if...

As a state subdivision, they are probably protected by sovereign immunity from a claim of copyright infringement -- as well as a "fair use" claim.

 

[jefnvk]

Full-auto glocks are easy to control with a LITTLE practice. They are easy to use if you take the time to train. Who is the one perpetuating myths now? If you haven't fired a Glock in full-auto, shut your trap about how "difficult" it is to control.

I watched a friend shoot a full-auto converted Glock 17, along with a few other people. Uncontrollable is about the word I'd use to describe the situtation (besides hilarious ). Can you, with practice, learn to shoot it well? I have no doubt. Is the average gangbanger going to practice? Probably not. Even if he were stupid enough to try to, what do you think the chances of him getting caught practicing are? Probably pretty good.

People who haev hardly used a handgun, let alone a full auto handgun, are going to have a handful with an 18.

 

[AZ Jeff]

I have shot a REAL Glock 18 several times. I find the pistol fairly controllable. Then again, I have fired MANY pistols of a variety of power levels in my 52 years, and a number of full-auto arms, so I kinda know what to expect.

In the hands of a practiced shooter, a full-auto Glock is easy to control. Two and 3 shot bursts onto a USPSA or IDPA type target are easy to achieve at 12 meters.

 

[rem]

The patent can easily be found on the US Patent Office website:

Fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun

 

[whm1974]

4)The Kansas Peace Officers Association have broken Intellectual Property law in their attempt to whip up hysterical paranoia.

I think this has to do more with getting funding for PDs then anything else. Either that they are trying to get Glocks banned in Kansas.

I doubt that Glocks are really that easy to convert with "$10 homemade parts". For somebody with a machine shop maybe. Most gangbangers....

I also doubt that police in Florida and California are treat any Glock they see as an automacite weapon.

-Bill

 

[akviper]

We have encountered home converted Title II firearms over the years. Usually is done by intellect challenged (is that the high road way) individuals wanting to have fun at the range or compact storage of their boat or car gun. I have heard about illegal home made conversions since I was a kid so it certainly isn't new. There are many innovative, simple, and inexpensive ways to convert many common firearms to full auto. I suspect somebody in the PR department was looking to get some press time and decided to create an issue. Any gang bangers in the area that weren't considering illegal full auto conversions are probably thinking about it now.

 

[SLCDave]

Evidently the Kansas Peace Officers Association ganked the file directly from the Phoenix Firearms website.

Justin, Not only did you say ganked, you typed ganked! You're my hero this week!

 

[Joejojoba111]

Justin, it's not breaking the law if they're doing it to enforce the law... And, "Wat you gonna do 'bout it, huh?"

Here it is, that is cool stuff! I'm surprised the company hasn't been run out of town yet, and by town I mean, well, the continent. I couldn't get the images to work, but maybe later.

"United States Patent 5,705,763
Leon January 6, 1998

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun


Abstract
A fire selector system for selecting between automatic and semi-automatic operation of a gun is provided. The system is mountable on a reciprocating slide of the gun and into operative relationship with the trigger bar of the gun. A member of the selector system is movable between forward and rearward longitudinal positions. The forward longitudinal position allows the member to assume an activating longitudinal position for automatic operation of the gun. The rearward longitudinal position prevents the member from assuming its activating longitudinal position, thereby effecting semi-automatic operation of the gun. The member repetitively contacts a contact area of the trigger bar as it reciprocates with a reciprocating slide of the gun during automatic operation. Further, the device is easily installed and removed from the reciprocating slide depending on user requirements."

 

[The Armed Bear]

I have a question

what is public law 99- 308 ?

 

[thorn726]

although everyone here is deathly afraid of hanguns, seems like every other week someone is busted for using either an SKS or AK type rifle on somebody.
last week it was a 14 year old with SKS.

they definitely have full autos, but it seems like they are mostly used for gang war type stuff only.

really, i am always suprised for how people talk, the places i go , how few guns i have actually seen in use (none, altohugh i have seen a few people post shooting)

REALITY= majority of felons with guns have them for personal protection, not for robbing folks, so they really dont come out all that often.

armed robbers- well those people are in a whole other world, i know little to nothing about that mentality.
HA- those people are never on the street more than one or two crimes, (generally). prison makes them nuts. it will never make sense to me when adding a gun adds 5-10 years to the sentence.

 

[Rockstar]

The patented device referred to in this thread doesn't "lock the firing pin forward." It trips the trigger bar between the connector and the cruciform, every time the slide goes into battery.

It really is extremely simple to convert a Glock to full auto fire. I don't know if gangs are really using converted Glocks or not, but the technology for doing so doesn't require an M.I.T. degree.

 

[BluesBear]

Now how in the world can ANYONE watch that video and then expound that a full auto handgun is "impossible" to control?

Full auto sounds cool in a pistol, but it isn't.

Hell yes it is! ​

Takes a lot of control to hold the muzzle down.

No more control than shooting a .357 magnum J-frame. ​

I suspect it'd be extremely difficult with conventional grips.

Looks like the guy in the video was having no problem with them. ​

Another myth that the unknowing suck onto and expound without knowing the facts.

It appears that the knowledge of facts isn't limited to the "unknowing". ​

 

[Kevlarman]

Tada!

Looks quite simple to install once you can get your hands on such a device, and provided it is legal where you live.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I wonder if the Glock corperation knows that "dremel" is a copywrited name.

 

[GRB]

I would hate to be on the receiving end of one of these even with a 15 round mag. To have all 15 come out as quickly as they would could be pretty bad. Even if the shooter was not great at muzzle control, if he started low and ended up high, chances are you would be hurting. Of course this goes likewise for any full auto firearm. The thing about the pistol as compared to an AK is the ability to more easily conceal it and I guess that makes it a scarier weapon to some.

I agree with those who believe this would be an easy conversion to make. I read up on it about a year ago, and visited a few web sites wherein parts were offered. They looked like simply parts that someone could make in a well equipped home shop. nOw I am no mechanic or metal worker, so that is just my guess. To date I have seen one video made by law enforcement of an officer shooting one of the converted Glocks and one of an unidentified person shooting another. In about an hour or so when this one downloads, I'll watch it too. Darned phone modems.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[whm1974]

In about an hour or so when this one downloads, I'll watch it too. Darned phone modems.

I feel your pain....

-Bill

 

[natedog]

I'm curious, how does the factory Glock 18 work? Is the pistol still have the striker half-tensioned by the slide, half tensioned by the trigger? That doesn't seem feasible, of course.

 

[antsi]

----------quote---------------
police are treating any Glock they encounter as a fully automatic firing weapon
------------------------------

That's good. Up until now, Kansas police officers were just ignoring gang-bangers blazing away with Glocks. You had the gang-bangers shooting at nuns and orphans, shooting up the preschools, shooting up the elderly in nursing homes, even shooting cops left, right, and center, and nobody took the problem seriously. The attitude was pretty much, "let drug-addled teenage sociopaths armed with deadly weapons be drug-addled teenage sociopaths armed with deadly weapons."

Fortunately, now that they know Glocks can be converted to full-auto, they're going to start taking it seriously when they see a gang-banger brandishing one.

 

[bogie]

You know, I've shot maybe four mags (outta JR's Glock...), and I want one...

Just can't afford one...

Very easy to control, with a little practice. It helps to already be familiar with recoil and trigger/burst control - for example, I have a hard time with "rock'n'roll" shooting... I just naturally do 3-4 shot bursts, since I spent so much range time doing that...

 

[c_yeager]

I suppose the real question that needs to be asked is "does it matter?". Is a fully automatic Glock really that much more of a threat than a semi-auto?

police are treating any Glock they encounter as a fully automatic firing weapon.

What the heck? So, ff someone pulled a Glock 19 on one of these guys in the past would the officer have said "AHA thats a semiautomatic, you cant hurt me!" and now they are actually scared of them? How is their policy regarding fully automatic weapons different from their policy concerning semiautomatic weapons?

 

[spartacus2002]

Anyways, please please please don't spout crap when you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

And a BIG High Road Welcome to you too!!!

From the Code of Conduct: 4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

 

[rick_reno]

Watch out - possession of a screwdriver, a sturdy key and a GLOCK pistol could prompt a visit from the BATF.
A police officer friend of mine in Portland, OR mentioned months ago that they'd been taught what to look for when looking for a converted GLOCK. This was bought about by some police agency (he didn't know the source) finding one or more of them on the street. I gathered the conversion was visible externally.

 

[Onmilo]

I guess gangbangers in the east and out West are much more gun savvy than the Midwest miscreants.

Here Jennings and Brycos are just now giving way to Bersa and Hi-Point.

The SKS and the AK in any and all variants are still the rifles of choice, many with the buttstocks sawn off or removed.
These are very, very rarely used in crimes, they are show pieces and badges of honor, guns are ditched after a crime and nobody wants to toss their A-KAY.

Shotguns,,,, Mavericks or Mossbergs with the pistol grip installed.

Only full autos here are Jennings that are in the process of falling apart.

 

[Mornard]

uummnnhhh..... if the parts are homemade, how come they cost $10, per the article...?

I confirm shenanigans...

 

[30 cal slob]

Oh, those evil "uzi-tec9-semiautomatic-machine-pistol-assault-weapons" oughta be banned.

Seriously, though, on full-auto, I have a hard time keeping a Schmeisser MP-40 or a Walther MP-L on target.

Wonder what all the fuss is about, I doubt I could hit the side of a barn with a full-auto Glock. You're just spraying ammo.