General all around farm gun

[kd7nqb]

My mother works for a family owned company (Not owned by our family) and she has worked their about 12yrs. Due to the this and the fact that the owners of the company use to live across the street (how my mom got the job) I know the owners kids pretty well.

Yesterday I was in the office doing some boring work out in the shipping department to pick up some extra cash (read money for a new SA EMP .40) and got into a discussion with the Owners oldest daughter who is about 8months younger than I. After her parent divorced she moved in with her dad on about 10acres out in Gaston Oregon. She now owns her own horse breeding business out there and was telling me all about that. Now to the gun related part, we got talking about the local wildlife ranging from some coyotes and cougars to the occasional bear (she said she has seen evidence of them but never seen one out there herself). She was particularly worried about some of the predators that like to come around just after a horse gives birth.

I suggested that she find herself an inexpensive rifle to keep around the house/ barn since

1. She often has to check these horses at all hours of the night
2. Predators can certainly linger around livestock
3.ect, ect, ect, on the reasons why a farm might want to have accesable firearms.

She is certainly not anti-gun but didnt grow up around them either so she was "gun ignorant". We chatted about this breifly and that was that. So my real question is what kind of rifle would you suggest given the situation.

1. Most likely to be fired by someone who does not have a lot of firearms background so its needs to be easy to use.
2. May be kept in the barn so it needs to be rugged and reliable
3. Needs to be of a sufficent caliber to handle "farm duty"
4. Low price point since its not being used much and she wont want to invest a small fortune in it.


I am thinking that either an SKS or a Mosin Nagent M44 may fit the bill. Part of me also thinks that a pistol caliber carbine in .40 or .45acp maybe a good option (think Kel-Tec or Highpoint maybe)

I also of course said that I would be more than happy to teach her to shoot and make sure she is comfortable with the gun enough that she could use it if need be.

Really the only guns I have ruled out would be a .22lr and some super tacti-cool AR variant.

Sorry for being long winded, I just felt that the background might be useful.

I also talked to her and she said that with permission from land owner you can hunt up there, makes me think that I might want to hunt cougar eventually. She also mentioned that there are 30-35 elk that hang out in the timber portion of the property.

 

[Ske1etor]

Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 will do the job just fine. Lever action, load up the tube and leave it be. Work the lever to make it ready to fire.

They aren't that expensive and don't have too bad of a recoil. Open sights are nice since she won't be hunting with it.

You can pick one up from a local Academy sports store for under 400 bucks.

 

[boredelmo]

I think the Mini-14 is marketed as such a weapon. No first hand experience though.

 

[Brad Johnson]

A lever gun, but in .357 or .44 mag, and with a DA wheel gun to match.

Brad

 

[sm]

Lever Action 30-30

Proven, folks here still use these, we always have, and we still do.

 

[whistler]

single shot shotgun in 12 or 20 is easy to learn to use.

 

[bratch]

Lots and lots of considerations. You said they are on 10 ac is this the standard development out there or do they just have a small tract in the midst of wide open space?

I wouldn't want to be lighting off any major centerfire rifle rounds in a 10 ac subdivision.

 

[Wedge]

I'd say 30/30 or a 20ga pump.

 

[romma]

AR-15... Why not?

 

[Ske1etor]

Bratch, I didn't even see that line. Now that you mention it though, a single shot 20 gauge would do just fine. They are fairly cheap and easy to use. With the right loads they can handle their own.

 

[RNB65]

SKS seems like the best choice. Heavy but easy to use and reliable.

I'd stay away from the Mosin due to the issues with cycling the MN bolt. Unlike modern bolt guns, the MN bolt really has to be muscled to cycle.

Lever action rifle in .357mag or .44mag would work. But not cheap.

And don't forget the peasant gun -- AK47. Ugly as sin, but easy to use and very reliable.

Of course, a Rem 870 or Mossy 500 pump shotgun would also meet all of you criteria nicely and can be bought at Wal Mart for a very reasonable price.
-

 

[MaterDei]

Ske1etor's suggestion is a good one. You might want to consider a Marlin Camp carbine too. They come in 9mm and 45acp. The SKS and M44 that you suggest are both certainly good weapons but both are pretty heavy and the M44 probably kicks more than your mother would be comfortable with. Follow up shots on the M44 would also be somewhat slow for your mother.

The Kel-Tec and hi-point carbines would fit the bill as well.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I use the sks as a truck gun on our farm/ranch . but everyone concerned has somewhat a firearms background . If you discount the bear issue she would be well served by a cheaper bolt in .223 to .243. You could pick up anything from a savage to a used remmy and be ok . If the bear thing is a serious concern ( usually its not ) then bump up to .308/ 30.06 as a minimum. I have both ar pattern rifles , and a fal but drag a savage .308 scout with me as a ranch rifle, It is stoked with 110 hp for coyotes ect, and has 150s in a butt cuff for putting down anything heavy ( think a horse or cow with a broken leg out in a pasture ect.. ) . The " ideal " ranch rifle simply does not exist much like the ideal shtf rifle . You have to take the most likely use , the users skill set , and the poundage of the " game " involved into consideration . She does not seem ( at this point ) to be a hunter or shooter so imho a .223 level rifle with a low mag scope ( 4x or under) would likely suit her fine . It would be light enough with light recoil and the scope properly zeroed at a realistic range for her ( say 50 yards which would put it poa poi out to 300 or so ) would put the target and the sight on the same plain of sight .. nothing to learn . Take her out with whatever you get and allow her to shoot it a bit , at least once or twice without hearing protection ( she wont have that when she grabs it to nail a song dog ) . All ranch rifles should be stored " cruiser ready " ( empty chamber , action ready to be cycled ) since there is allways time to cycle the firearm when you pick it up , and it wont " just go bang " if some one who in inexperienced in the heat of the moment touches or snaggs a trigger .

Sorry i didn't say go get xx rifle , but my ranch isnt where hers is , and our skillset isnt what hers is . The best i can do is general ideas for your thought .

 

[Tyris]

I see no reason to be rude and wake the neighbors.

-T

 

[Patrick_Henry]

I believe single shot or pump action shot guns have traditionally filled this role. Since it may be abused a little bit the single shot might need less up keep, but I claim to be no expert on this. A single shot 20 gauge would certainly be easy to use with good training and would fire a wide variety of loads for the various types of predators that might need to be shot at.

A 44. pistol carbine might not be bad either, esp considering the possibility of picking up a revolver later if the need to carry became issue, but with firing from horse back a possibility Ayoob recommends single action and I'm inclined to believe his arguments are good...

 

[BruceRDucer]

As I understand this, a young woman wouldn't want a rifle with too much recoil. A 20 guage shotgun would be a good all-around weapon. Sometimes rural properties have a 2 legged predator also.

The 30-30 caliber sounds good, but wouldn't a .44 caliber have a bit too much recoil for a woman?

I wouldn't suggest an AR-15 or any .223 caiber weapon for a bear, unless I could get it full auto, which isn't likely. The shotgun seems so much a better choice.

Isn't the Moisin Nagant said to have a hefty recoil?

All around, the shotguns can be had for less, so...

 

[AntiqueCollector]

An NEF/H&R single shot shotgun would be cheap, simple, durable and would do the job fine with a decent variety of ammo (slugs, buckshot, etc.).

 

[Kingcreek]

20g pump is a better choice than single shot IMO. Buckshot for most any varmints even 2 legged and 3/4oz slug for anything bigger and badder.

 

[Beatnik]

Marlin also makes an 18" lever .357 magnum carbine for the same price point (~$400).

You get the simplicity of a lever gun, which, due to westerns, is probably going to be more readily picked up by a non-gunner, you get to fire full-house .357 magnums with basically no recoil and not much blast/noise, and you get to pair it up with a 4" GP100.

Unless the bears are brown, I'd suggest something she can quickly tame and hit what she's aiming at. I would think 20g is a big step up from nothing.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Bruce bud you said "The 30-30 caliber sounds good, but wouldn't a .44 caliber have a bit too much recoil for a woman?"
Two things show here to me ,

1. your lack of experience with either caliber involved , and ...

2. your lack of experience with " women " on a fireing line .

Now i am not a fan of the tried and true 30-30 and i admit its for personal reasons . Ill just say this .. when you couple the 30-30 with a light rifle such as a winchester 94 you get a recoil impulse that is more a slap than a push , besides the .ctg really does not have a lot ( other than the fact it has worked for umpteen years ) to recommend it .
The .44... Well i will assume we mean the common .44 mag handgun round chambered to rifle .. It is in contrast to the old 30 a dream to shoot tho it is even a shorter ranged ctg and expensive in ammo as well as somewhat " estoric " in firearm .

I wont delve deeply into women and recoil other than to mention that my bride who weighs 115 lbs or so loves her detonics .45 , loves rock and roll with a bar, and lights a cig after she shoots a buddys .50 bmg rifle . Do not equate the " fair " sex with recoil shy . I spoke to light recoil , light rifle in the same fashon i spoke to optics , NEW or inexperienced shooter .

For anyone who is saying shot gun , yall dont understand the question .

The issue is to place one projectile where you want it , quite possibly near or even under an animal that costs more than you will make in 5 years, its like the old dept store , you break it you buy it . a shotgun spread of pellets is not what is optimal here, no matter how enticing a shotty may look . It is not home defense , it is foal defense, hopefully at 50 and under but up to 250 or 300 yards is not unreasonable distances . Lets focus on what will enable this young lady to be able to defend her charges , not what " we would do " . I still say when you discount bear ( and i do ) the .223 thro .243 level of bolt with a fixed 4x or under is best to set in the corner .

 

[Zundfolge]

The 30-30 caliber sounds good, but wouldn't a .44 caliber have a bit too much recoil for a woman?

In a rifle a .44mag is a pussycat ... I'd go so far as to say the 30-30 is going to be harsher recoiling.

I like the idea of a 30-30, .44mag or .357mag lever gun.

Problem with a shotgun is that if you run across a bear with bird shot you're in trouble and slugs for feral cats is overkill (plus recoil becomes more of an issue then).

The SKS isn't a bad idea, but I'd figure in a rural setting finding 7.62x39 is eventually going to become a problem (of course 30-30 is easily 4 times the cost right now of 7.62x39)

So I'd say that makes the .44mag the overall best choice.


now if I was buying a "farm gun" for ME, make mine an AR10 Carbine thankyouverymuch

 

[strat81]

Saiga in 7.62x39 or SKS. I wouldn't want to spend much over $300 for something that may not be lovingly maintained.

 

[Zoogster]

Definately a shotgun. It can kill pests with small birdshot, and defend against larger predators with buckshot and slugs.
It is more of a tool for dispatching things while running a farm than a personal defense weapon. It can however fill that role as well. All around great general farm gun.

Now for sole use as a defensive arm there is other choices, but nothing beats it as a general purpose farm tool.

I also talked to her and she said that with permission from land owner you can hunt up there, makes me think that I might want to hunt cougar eventually. She also mentioned that there are 30-35 elk that hang out in the timber portion of the property.

People do not always do everything legaly, but keep in mind that in most locations the state owns the animals whether they are on private property or not. Someone still needs a license and tags to hunt on private property whether the property owner enforces it or not.
Simply having cougar or elk on the property does not mean the owner has inherited them and can dispatch them at will, or allow others to do so without breaking the law.
There is still many property owners that are unaware of that fact. They are however felony poachers.

 

[sm]

The farm /ranch/property trucks have their own "gear".
The one I have claimed and set up for me has a Single Shot 20 ga and slugs for loads.

If I need pellet loads, I keep # 8.5 and #5 in the tool box.
I Also use a old Win 94 that like 170 grainers, with a leather sling.
A .22 pistol and also stays in the truck.

Years ago, it was decided to remove the classic revolvers from the vehicles, so we stuck Kel-Tec P-11s in truck, tractors, combines and whatever.
These Model 10, 19, 29s and others put up.

We removed from "my" truck the old Rem Nylon 66.
One of the gals is most likely going to stick a Marlin 60 in it , when she gets around to it. The one with the neat wood stock which I forget the name of ...

Now I get the use of the old Winnie, and what I used when the tornado's ripped through recently and was out doing my thing.

That old gun is real sentimental, and a older Marlin has been found, and *sigh* that darn gun prefers 150 grainers .
It will take me a bit to get used to a pistol grip ,as I am so used to a straight grip Win.
Still...we guess it is time to use a Marlin with "my" truck.

We lost a real special dawg in the storm and sentimental us...that Win 94, that dawg...that is the reason the Win 94 might not get used near as much.
Respect for a really neat dawg.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The .44... Well i will assume we mean the common .44 mag handgun round chambered to rifle .. It is in contrast to the old 30 a dream to shoot tho it is even a shorter ranged ctg and expensive in ammo

Remember that a $20 box of .30-30 and a $35 box of .44 mag are not true comparisons. The rifle rounds come in a 20 count box. The pistol rounds, 50. At a buck a round, the less-per-box .30-30 is more expensive than .44 mag, which comes in at around seventy cents. Plus, you can get .44 mag in a almost endless variety of loadings, bullet weights and bullet types.

At up to 100 yds, a 220-250 gr JHP .44 mag will reliably negate pretty much any critter you will encounter. In a rifle the recoil is certainly manageable, even for someone slightly built. In a more modern lever gun like the BLR or Marlin 336, both of which sport recoil pads, a .44 can be downright pleasant compared to some rifle rounds.

Brad