Brad Johnson
Member
I had some principles but I sold them to buy ammo.
Brad
General all around farm gun
- Thread starter kd7nqb
- Start date
- Status
I had some principles but I sold them to buy ammo.
Brad
mustanger98
Member
Here's my take. First off, I wouldn't recommend a semi-auto to a newbie because semi-autos are a "thinking man's gun". When you consider that this is foal defense, as has been noted, it compounds the problems.
If I'm outfitting my farm/ranch pickup, my choices will be a 12guage SxS with full and modified chokes and a LEVERGUN in either .30-30, .357, or .44mag. (My sidearm will be on my belt where it belongs and will probably be loaded with whatever the revolver-chambered levergun eats.) I'll also note here that one of my 2nd cousins keeps a .243 in his pickup for coyotes and whatever else and I also like that... but mine'll have iron sights and preferably aperture rear.
I've done a lot of braggin' on my old '94 .30-30 with the Lyman #2 tang sight... I've placed and even won in cast bullet matches, busted a lot of clay birds on the 100yd berm, and killed deer with it. If the coyotes show up and I have this rifle out, I own 'em. Same with my M1 Garand, but I know this weapon and still wouldn't recommend it to a beginner in a stressful situation.
For horse/mare/foal defense, not only do you not want a buckshot spread flying at the animal you're trying to protect, you also do not want sprayed rifle fire.
For a newbie, I recommend the leverguns. I grew up with the whole levergun thing. And mount Williams 5D rear sights on 'em. In a bad situation like taking down a predator that's taking down a foal, you need to aquire the target as fast as possible and make a fast hit to the vitals. The wider apertures or ghostrings will help with that. Preferably you need a one shot kill, but you have 9rds more to back it up if necessary.
If I'm outfitting my farm/ranch pickup, my choices will be a 12guage SxS with full and modified chokes and a LEVERGUN in either .30-30, .357, or .44mag. (My sidearm will be on my belt where it belongs and will probably be loaded with whatever the revolver-chambered levergun eats.) I'll also note here that one of my 2nd cousins keeps a .243 in his pickup for coyotes and whatever else and I also like that... but mine'll have iron sights and preferably aperture rear.
I've done a lot of braggin' on my old '94 .30-30 with the Lyman #2 tang sight... I've placed and even won in cast bullet matches, busted a lot of clay birds on the 100yd berm, and killed deer with it. If the coyotes show up and I have this rifle out, I own 'em. Same with my M1 Garand, but I know this weapon and still wouldn't recommend it to a beginner in a stressful situation.
For horse/mare/foal defense, not only do you not want a buckshot spread flying at the animal you're trying to protect, you also do not want sprayed rifle fire.
For a newbie, I recommend the leverguns. I grew up with the whole levergun thing. And mount Williams 5D rear sights on 'em. In a bad situation like taking down a predator that's taking down a foal, you need to aquire the target as fast as possible and make a fast hit to the vitals. The wider apertures or ghostrings will help with that. Preferably you need a one shot kill, but you have 9rds more to back it up if necessary.
Personally I think for a novice a rifle in this situation would be to tempting to sit it down or prop it in a corner .
Since most preditors come out at night having a gun with a light mounted on it would be a good idea .
I would suggest a 7 shot Taurus 66 357magnum revolver under $400 new .
Get a universal mount and add either a flashlight or a cheap laser that would assit in aiming put a lanyard on it and even if she drops it it will still be with her on the end of a string .
Since most preditors come out at night having a gun with a light mounted on it would be a good idea .
I would suggest a 7 shot Taurus 66 357magnum revolver under $400 new .
Get a universal mount and add either a flashlight or a cheap laser that would assit in aiming put a lanyard on it and even if she drops it it will still be with her on the end of a string .
aaronrkelly
Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2005
- Messages
- 1,087
SAIGA is my suggestions - $250 handy little rifle.
I want to agree with the .30-30 suggestion, I love my 336 and I think that any rancher would be well served by one, but a 20g shotgun really is a better option here. Way more flexible ammo choices and recoil is no big deal. I'd go with a pump and keep a box of birdshot and a box of buck around.
bluestarlizzard
Member
in addition to the firearm, i would advise she get a livestock gaurdian. anatolian, great pyr, or other large breed dog that is specifically breed to gaurd livestock from prediators. a working dog can be a wonderful thing on a farm.
my bosses breed anatolians and use them as working gaurds for goats and horses. they have never had a problem with predators, other then snakes, and the dogs will even alart you to snakes.
my bosses breed anatolians and use them as working gaurds for goats and horses. they have never had a problem with predators, other then snakes, and the dogs will even alart you to snakes.
I'd stay away from the mosin, it recoils pretty hard for a newbie.
as this isn't for hunting, there is less concern for picking a caliber that will drop a trophy buck, instead you can conectrate more on what is easy to shoot and will get the job done. Seems to me this is a job for the 223
Others have mentioned the SKS and Mini-14, they woudl be good but the semiauto action may be a bit much for the first time owner who isn't horribly interested in guns.
I think the levergun in 30-30 or 44 mag or 357 may be good, and definately has a 'ranch' look to it. However, again for the absolute novice who might not want to put a lot of thought into it, is it best?
it seems to me a simple bolt action or even a break-open would be the best. I am thinking the CZ 527 carbine in 223, or an NEF handi rifle in 223
as this isn't for hunting, there is less concern for picking a caliber that will drop a trophy buck, instead you can conectrate more on what is easy to shoot and will get the job done. Seems to me this is a job for the 223
Others have mentioned the SKS and Mini-14, they woudl be good but the semiauto action may be a bit much for the first time owner who isn't horribly interested in guns.
I think the levergun in 30-30 or 44 mag or 357 may be good, and definately has a 'ranch' look to it. However, again for the absolute novice who might not want to put a lot of thought into it, is it best?
it seems to me a simple bolt action or even a break-open would be the best. I am thinking the CZ 527 carbine in 223, or an NEF handi rifle in 223
5knives
Member
Interesting comments.
Never lived on, worked on or even heard of a farm that didn't have a 12 gauge behind the kitchen door, either a single shot or a pump.
Visited my uncle over the holidays and he's got a nice old model 12 there, another in the horse barn, being as how he's to old to hunt now and gave his other guns to my cousins, thats all he's got to protect his 23 brood mares and his $1.3 million dollar Stud. Well, them and his four crazy pig headed Dalmations.
Pretty quiet anyhow , a few coyotes and a stray wolf or even more rarely a bear every once in a while is about it.
FWIW, he hasn't killed anything but a few coyotes and a fox or two in over three years now. But then at 93 he's not quite as spry as he used to be.
Course I only know about Wisconsin through the Dakotas, and I am getting up in years myself, so I'm probably just behind the times and out of touch.
Kids and Grandkids tell me that all the time anyhow.
JMHO, YMMV!
Regards,
Never lived on, worked on or even heard of a farm that didn't have a 12 gauge behind the kitchen door, either a single shot or a pump.
Visited my uncle over the holidays and he's got a nice old model 12 there, another in the horse barn, being as how he's to old to hunt now and gave his other guns to my cousins, thats all he's got to protect his 23 brood mares and his $1.3 million dollar Stud. Well, them and his four crazy pig headed Dalmations.
Pretty quiet anyhow , a few coyotes and a stray wolf or even more rarely a bear every once in a while is about it.
FWIW, he hasn't killed anything but a few coyotes and a fox or two in over three years now. But then at 93 he's not quite as spry as he used to be.
Course I only know about Wisconsin through the Dakotas, and I am getting up in years myself, so I'm probably just behind the times and out of touch.
Kids and Grandkids tell me that all the time anyhow.
JMHO, YMMV!
Regards,
KelTecian
Member
Ruger mini 14 or 30
Brian Dale
Member
Lever action .30-30 meets the requirements stated in the OP.
A dollar a cartridge isn't too much to spend to protect horses you care about. Business owner/horse breeder means a demonstrated ability to learn important things and to practice until they're done right.
Go with what's been shown to work for thousands of people in similar situations.
A dollar a cartridge isn't too much to spend to protect horses you care about. Business owner/horse breeder means a demonstrated ability to learn important things and to practice until they're done right.
Go with what's been shown to work for thousands of people in similar situations.
paintballdude902
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,872
cant go wrong with a .30-30
Elm Creek Smith
Member
H&R Handi Rifle in .30-30 Winchester. Maybe mount a K2.5 Weaver on it. You could get one for the house, one for the barn, and one for the truck.
Can't go wrong with any lever .30-30 Win except for the stupid crossbolt Winchester 94s.
My choice would be an all-weather Ruger Ranch Rifle in 6.8 SPC scoped with a 2.5 Burris scout.
ECS
Can't go wrong with any lever .30-30 Win except for the stupid crossbolt Winchester 94s.
My choice would be an all-weather Ruger Ranch Rifle in 6.8 SPC scoped with a 2.5 Burris scout.
ECS
kd7nqb
Member
Well thanks for all the suggestions. I didnt expect 3pages in 12hrs. Thats great, I admit I completely neglected even thinking shotgun, a great option. I admit I sometimes mentally categorize anything with a long barrel and a shoulder stock as a rifle. It's wrong and I have sinned.
Sounds like I should take her shooting and see what she like, a good friend of mine has a lever action that we could bring along and see if she likes that.
Sounds like I should take her shooting and see what she like, a good friend of mine has a lever action that we could bring along and see if she likes that.
I'm all for a 4-inch Smith & Wesson 66. Little 357 to take all over the place, hard to beat. For a rifle the Marlin 30-30 and SKSs seem like a good idea. Also might consider an 870 or Mossberg 500. We keep a Mossberg 500 around the homestead that came off the ole farm. You can put the Smiff in a little Nylon shoulder holster and take it all over the farm; never have to worry about not having it or wearing a big rig to pack it with that'll pull your pants down when you forget your belt in the middle of the night. Heaven forbid she is ever attacked, it's natural for one to curl up into the fetal position for protection; the revolver is right at hand.
Come on guys did you not read this? the OP is asking for a rifle that is easy to operate by a beginner. So any auto loader is out as are shotguns
I say +100 to the Handi rifle in 30-30 enough said!
But then the op has this to add
So then go with a double 20 still cant go wrong with that!
doc2rn
Member
If she just wants to drive away predators tell her to go to the zoo and ask for a bag of lion dung. Then sprinkle it around the property, must reapply once a month.
Quoheleth
Member
Lemme see if I got the OP right. This will be a woman, unfamiliar with guns, and who wants something for personal and domesticated animal protection.
So, let me think of my wife as the woman in question. SHe could not handle a 12 gauge or even a 20 gauge at this point. A semi-auto would be a foolish choice - I either see her intimidated by it, or sinking to "spray and pray" techniques.
I hear the replies now: "She needs training!" No arguments. But we're talking farm hands here. Never in 20+ years of rural living and farm work have I heard of a farmer plunking down the dollars for a "tactical" gun let alone a training class. Most balked at having to have their sons take the state-madeated hunter's ed class.
No. She needs something light, easy to pack, and non-intimidating. My suggestions are along those lines.
I would select a 2-gun armament.
#1. The .410 "Snake Charmer" shotgun. See: http://www.verney-carron.us/pages_us/iii_technical.htm. It's short, light, and fast to get into action. Used lots of those on farms for rat hunts and snake patrol in chicken coops. Loaded with #8s, it's deadly. Loaded heavier with #2s or even BBs, it'll take out "feral dogs" at close range when they were getting near the sheep pens. Load with slugs and you'll have a 50 yard gun, easy. Snake Charmer comes in 2 sizes; the shorter size has a hollow stock that allows 4 or 5 shells to rest in there - immediage back-up ammo. Put a simple sling on this gun, and she can sling it across her back and have it ready to rock and hardly notice its weight.
#2a. Ruger single six, 4 5/8 barrel, with .22 magnum cylinder (although the .22LR would be better than nothing). The .22 magnum is pretty decent as far as a small game fetcher, and while I personally would prefer a Ruger SP101 .357 on my belt, for a noob, I think this an excellent choice.
#2b. If a DA revolver would be preferred (some say DAs are better for noobs), then get the Taurus 94 (22LR) or 941 (22 mag). The inexpensive .22s (I consider the magnums inexpensive compared to centerfire) allow for her to shoot a lot and get comfortable with it, learn sight picture, trigger squeeze, etc., and become proficient enough to feel comfortable in its use.
Having spent a lot of years in the barns and fields, I can tell you that with "heavy" guns (Mossy 500s, .30-30s, and other long guns), they are the first things to be set down. In my pre-pistol days, I carried a Browning .22BL lever action - short, compact, and fast. But even that, when wrassling haybales out of the loft, I left it at the door. Never failed...that's when I met the snake hiding in the pocket between bales. Wish I had that pistol. She needs something light, yet manageable; moderately powerful, but not intimidating; something easy to learn and operate, yet sturdy. I think these two choices cover that. My $.02 cents worth. If this were my wife, these would be the two weapons of choice I would suggest for her.
Q
So, let me think of my wife as the woman in question. SHe could not handle a 12 gauge or even a 20 gauge at this point. A semi-auto would be a foolish choice - I either see her intimidated by it, or sinking to "spray and pray" techniques.
I hear the replies now: "She needs training!" No arguments. But we're talking farm hands here. Never in 20+ years of rural living and farm work have I heard of a farmer plunking down the dollars for a "tactical" gun let alone a training class. Most balked at having to have their sons take the state-madeated hunter's ed class.
No. She needs something light, easy to pack, and non-intimidating. My suggestions are along those lines.
I would select a 2-gun armament.
#1. The .410 "Snake Charmer" shotgun. See: http://www.verney-carron.us/pages_us/iii_technical.htm. It's short, light, and fast to get into action. Used lots of those on farms for rat hunts and snake patrol in chicken coops. Loaded with #8s, it's deadly. Loaded heavier with #2s or even BBs, it'll take out "feral dogs" at close range when they were getting near the sheep pens. Load with slugs and you'll have a 50 yard gun, easy. Snake Charmer comes in 2 sizes; the shorter size has a hollow stock that allows 4 or 5 shells to rest in there - immediage back-up ammo. Put a simple sling on this gun, and she can sling it across her back and have it ready to rock and hardly notice its weight.
#2a. Ruger single six, 4 5/8 barrel, with .22 magnum cylinder (although the .22LR would be better than nothing). The .22 magnum is pretty decent as far as a small game fetcher, and while I personally would prefer a Ruger SP101 .357 on my belt, for a noob, I think this an excellent choice.
#2b. If a DA revolver would be preferred (some say DAs are better for noobs), then get the Taurus 94 (22LR) or 941 (22 mag). The inexpensive .22s (I consider the magnums inexpensive compared to centerfire) allow for her to shoot a lot and get comfortable with it, learn sight picture, trigger squeeze, etc., and become proficient enough to feel comfortable in its use.
Having spent a lot of years in the barns and fields, I can tell you that with "heavy" guns (Mossy 500s, .30-30s, and other long guns), they are the first things to be set down. In my pre-pistol days, I carried a Browning .22BL lever action - short, compact, and fast. But even that, when wrassling haybales out of the loft, I left it at the door. Never failed...that's when I met the snake hiding in the pocket between bales. Wish I had that pistol. She needs something light, yet manageable; moderately powerful, but not intimidating; something easy to learn and operate, yet sturdy. I think these two choices cover that. My $.02 cents worth. If this were my wife, these would be the two weapons of choice I would suggest for her.
Q
22-rimfire
Member
I'd suggest the little Marlin 1894 in whatever caliber suits ya. Me, I'd get the 41 or 44 mag, but that is me. Handy little rifle. A 22 has a lot of merit too. The Remington 597 in 22WMR would be pretty handy as well and may well be the best choice for a relatively new shooter for a gun to use.
jakemccoy
Member
Eric wrote,
As a beginner one year ago, I bought a Rem 870 shotgun as my first real gun ever. I had no problems learning with it. It remains my favorite gun.
As a beginner one year ago, I bought a Rem 870 shotgun as my first real gun ever. I had no problems learning with it. It remains my favorite gun.
sm
member
Quoheleth,
Great Post!
New shooters and a lot of what "can" be done a .22 Revolver will do it.
Hence the looking for older H&R 999, and similar to hit a price point.
Model 18 and 17's by S&W are really nice, just a bit more money than some will spend.
It depends on farm and field, and "traffic" that comes thru.
Old Ruger Standard, High Standard DuraMatic, Colt Woodsmans are proven, just most Woodmans get put up and not left in a truck.
Ruger Bearcat (.22) and other single action Ruger in .357 and .44 are used.
Model 10s again are proven as are Colt Detective specials, lots of these are put up and for instance why a P-11 replaced them, these P-11s will shoot lead bullets with no problem and often times do, as some are reloads from wheel weights.
New shooter, it depends on this property and where located.
Lever Action means once the gun is fired, it cannot go off again, unless spent casing levered out, and a fresh one levered in.
New shooter, with a semi, and in excitement, is liable to jump and trip trigger under recoil.
Now jurisdictions come into play. On property one may, or may not have to adhere to game and fish and wildlife in regard to having a loaded gun in the vehicle.
Common for where I am is to load up a Lever action and not one in the chamber.
If needed, just lever and shoot.
That fired case is not going to fire again, so leave it be, run on down the property and that gun cannot go off again.
Top it off if you want through loading gate, still that carbine cannot go off.
The hammer is down...
Single action guns with the hammer down on a empty chamber are not going to off even if you throw them against a barn.
You have to cock it, and once fired , it cannot go off again. You "could" hammer nails with it, and it cannot go off until that gun is hammered back and cocked.
Nothing wrong with a semi, just a lot of folks today, are not familiar with "Property" and what a firearm is used for.
TV and Movies are not about cowboys and ranching and farming either.
Everything today is shoot fast, and have a big magazine.
Even the old "Army" TV shows and Movies did not "promote" this "shoot 'em go fast "
Down on the property is NOT Kuwait, or Afghanistan, really, it is not.
Folks really do load up a Colt Detective special or Model 36 with 158 gr, standard pressure , Lead Round Nose bullets [Window Makers] and put down a cow.
Recently we did just that, with two cows, with those guns and those loads.
I brought my 1929 Colt Detective Special down and that was the Old Colt DS used. Old boy had his old old Model 36
Both cows went down!
Few days ago, I used that 36 with those "widow makers" to put down feral cats.
How raised - What you do.
Great Post!
New shooters and a lot of what "can" be done a .22 Revolver will do it.
Hence the looking for older H&R 999, and similar to hit a price point.
Model 18 and 17's by S&W are really nice, just a bit more money than some will spend.
It depends on farm and field, and "traffic" that comes thru.
Old Ruger Standard, High Standard DuraMatic, Colt Woodsmans are proven, just most Woodmans get put up and not left in a truck.
Ruger Bearcat (.22) and other single action Ruger in .357 and .44 are used.
Model 10s again are proven as are Colt Detective specials, lots of these are put up and for instance why a P-11 replaced them, these P-11s will shoot lead bullets with no problem and often times do, as some are reloads from wheel weights.
New shooter, it depends on this property and where located.
Lever Action means once the gun is fired, it cannot go off again, unless spent casing levered out, and a fresh one levered in.
New shooter, with a semi, and in excitement, is liable to jump and trip trigger under recoil.
Now jurisdictions come into play. On property one may, or may not have to adhere to game and fish and wildlife in regard to having a loaded gun in the vehicle.
Common for where I am is to load up a Lever action and not one in the chamber.
If needed, just lever and shoot.
That fired case is not going to fire again, so leave it be, run on down the property and that gun cannot go off again.
Top it off if you want through loading gate, still that carbine cannot go off.
The hammer is down...
Single action guns with the hammer down on a empty chamber are not going to off even if you throw them against a barn.
You have to cock it, and once fired , it cannot go off again. You "could" hammer nails with it, and it cannot go off until that gun is hammered back and cocked.
Nothing wrong with a semi, just a lot of folks today, are not familiar with "Property" and what a firearm is used for.
TV and Movies are not about cowboys and ranching and farming either.
Everything today is shoot fast, and have a big magazine.
Even the old "Army" TV shows and Movies did not "promote" this "shoot 'em go fast "
Down on the property is NOT Kuwait, or Afghanistan, really, it is not.
Folks really do load up a Colt Detective special or Model 36 with 158 gr, standard pressure , Lead Round Nose bullets [Window Makers] and put down a cow.
Recently we did just that, with two cows, with those guns and those loads.
I brought my 1929 Colt Detective Special down and that was the Old Colt DS used. Old boy had his old old Model 36
Both cows went down!
Few days ago, I used that 36 with those "widow makers" to put down feral cats.
How raised - What you do.
tinygnat219
Member
My aunt was in a similar situation when she moved from Anti-Gun Northern VA to a 60 acre ranch she bought in Texas.
Her roommate and fellow ranch co-owner asked her how familiar she was with firearms. Well, long story short, she isn't. They discovered that rural means rural in Southeast TX where help would be a long time in coming. Reluctantly, she asked for my help. I agreed and I told her I wasn't trying to "convert" her so to speak, but wanted to show her the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
So, we took a bunch of the guns in my collection out to the range to see which one she liked.
She liked the .22 Semi-auto, but thought it was too small of a cartridge.
She disliked the SKS off the bat, too heavy and cumbersome for her.
We tried my Marlin 357 Lever Action, she liked the trigger and the lack of recoil, but didn't like the lever action.
She tried my Mosin Nagant M44 and quickly handed it back.
We tried my Winchester 1100 12 Gauge pump with reduced recoil loads. She picked that one right up and other than being concerned with the recoil, she liked the pump action. She said it was "simple", but wanted something more that would fit her better.
I figured a Youth model 20 Gauge pump would work for her.
We made plans to go to the next show together, when she got a phonecall from my Uncle. Turns out he had found a Youth Model Charles Daly Pump shotgun in .20 Gauge and had his wife check it out for fit (both are near each other in size). My aunt had actually called him and let him know the progress we were making. He and I came to the same conclusion about the shotgun. He drove it up later that week and we tried it out at the range. She did really really well with it and that's what she's got to this day. It's good enough for coyotes, bear (with slugs), cougar, rabbit, and 2 legged predators. She keeps it loaded to this day with Slug, Buckshot, Slug.
My point is to not discount the pump shotgun. For a "farm" gun, it's hard to beat since it's simple, rugged, and accurate enough to get the job done. It's also nice if you have decent sized plots of 10-20 acres, but don't really want to worry as much about accidentally shooting your neighbors' house like a centerfire rifle.
Her roommate and fellow ranch co-owner asked her how familiar she was with firearms. Well, long story short, she isn't. They discovered that rural means rural in Southeast TX where help would be a long time in coming. Reluctantly, she asked for my help. I agreed and I told her I wasn't trying to "convert" her so to speak, but wanted to show her the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
So, we took a bunch of the guns in my collection out to the range to see which one she liked.
She liked the .22 Semi-auto, but thought it was too small of a cartridge.
She disliked the SKS off the bat, too heavy and cumbersome for her.
We tried my Marlin 357 Lever Action, she liked the trigger and the lack of recoil, but didn't like the lever action.
She tried my Mosin Nagant M44 and quickly handed it back.
We tried my Winchester 1100 12 Gauge pump with reduced recoil loads. She picked that one right up and other than being concerned with the recoil, she liked the pump action. She said it was "simple", but wanted something more that would fit her better.
I figured a Youth model 20 Gauge pump would work for her.
We made plans to go to the next show together, when she got a phonecall from my Uncle. Turns out he had found a Youth Model Charles Daly Pump shotgun in .20 Gauge and had his wife check it out for fit (both are near each other in size). My aunt had actually called him and let him know the progress we were making. He and I came to the same conclusion about the shotgun. He drove it up later that week and we tried it out at the range. She did really really well with it and that's what she's got to this day. It's good enough for coyotes, bear (with slugs), cougar, rabbit, and 2 legged predators. She keeps it loaded to this day with Slug, Buckshot, Slug.
My point is to not discount the pump shotgun. For a "farm" gun, it's hard to beat since it's simple, rugged, and accurate enough to get the job done. It's also nice if you have decent sized plots of 10-20 acres, but don't really want to worry as much about accidentally shooting your neighbors' house like a centerfire rifle.
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