Glock 23 KaBoom w/Wolf ammo

[don10m]

Glock firearms have seen a vast rise in popularity in the US over the past few years. It is estimated by several sources that between 60% to 70% of all police agencies in the country have issued Glocks as their primary sidearms. The Glock was designed in Austria by Gaston Glock for use by the Austrian Army. The weapon came to the US in the early 1980's and at first was not received warmly. Its polymer (plastic) components were thought to be unreliable. Many feared that the weapon would be able to pass through airport x-ray machines undetected. These fears were completely unfounded. The Glock has undergone some of the most torturous tests ever devised and deemed completely reliable. As for the airport concerns, the weapon has several large parts made entirely of metallic materials. These include the slide, the barrel, the trigger and many of the internal working parts and springs. There is no way it could pass through an x-ray machine undetected.


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they did say It is estimated by several sources that between 60% to 70% of all police agencies in the country have issued Glocks as their primary sidearms. but let me guess Bluesbear you estimated less because you did more research

 

[don10m]

John you can't tell these guys anything your always wrong with them, no matter if 70% of the police agencies in the U.S. said they used Glocks THEY would be wrong. They have to be right about everything, because they are KNOW IT ALLS....lol....yea right.

 

[Elmer]

don,

You keep trying to make it personal.


I'm not the one that can't support my positions, and continues to post out of context information, while occassionally arguing with my own posts........

Bratton, who headed the New York Police Department when it switched to Glocks in the 1990s, said the Beretta gun gave him blisters during his academy training in Los Angeles.

The transition to Glock was a foregone conclusion as soon as Bratton was hired.

Yeah that Beretta....quite a blistermaker......

East coast scummy politics makes it out west..... Lets see how long it lasts.

 

[Elmer]

I don't know what exact percentage of LE agencies use Glocks, but I've seen Todd Green who was once the Director of Beretta LE Sales claim on the web (within the last year or so) that Glock has something like 2/3rds of the LE market. I can't imagine what Beretta would have to gain by inflating Glock's share of the LE market. Unfortunately, Mr. Green now works for SIG and I can't find the link for this comment any more.

John, I've never heard of Todd, but Beretta has had quite a few LE directors. I'm sure he was quoting Glock statistics.

Ask his current boss, (who used to be an executive at Glock by the way), if he thinks Glock has a 70% marketshare.

Are you aware that Sig won the INS contract and the Homeland Defense contracts? Those two contracts alone are more guns than are probably used in five or ten states.

And why no response about large agencies who are not using Glock. ie: CHP, AZ DPS, NV Highway Patrol, Texas DPS, LASO, San Francisco, etc.

Does it make sense that Glock could not have this many large contracts, just in the west, and still have a 70% marketshare?

 

[don10m]

John, I've never heard of Todd, but Beretta has had quite a few LE directors. I'm sure he was quoting Glock statistics.

You just said you never heard of Todd how can you be SURE he was quoting Glock Statistics, you can't

 

[Elmer]

You're right,

He may have been quoting some else's erroneous statistics.....

Who were probably quoting Glock's phony statistics.....

 

[don10m]

It is estimated by several sources that between 60% to 70% of all police agencies in the country have issued Glocks as their primary sidearms.

Just face it you didn't do research like some of the police agencies did, HELL I think they know what they carry better than anyone one this forum does.

 

[don10m]

But let me call them and tell them they are ALL wrong that Elmer and Dean said they were, and when they ask who the hell is Elmer and Dean I'll tell them to go to the High Road gun forum.

 

[Elmer]

OK, don.....

You have no position, only feelings, which you try and justify with out of context quotes, which even you don't read...

Meanwhile, I have have named agencies, (and I could also give you names and phone numbers), to which you have no response to.

Wait a minute! You're basing your opinions on feelings, with no data to back it up....

Are you a Democrat?

 

[don10m]

From a Deputy at a County Sheriff’s Office in Texas
As a patrol deputy, I was working hemming. I was advised by radio that a suspect that the Sheriff’s Office had felony warrants on, was seen going West on42nd Street. From dealings with this subject in the past, I knew he would resist arrest and try to run from me. My sergeant had also received the call and was also responding. We also contacted a Texas Department of Public Safety unit to assist in boxing the suspect’s vehicle in at a red light.

The stop was made at42nd Streetwalkers. Subject at first tried to go through the roadblock and I went front bumper to front bumper with him. I got out of my unit, drew my weapon, ordering the driver to turn his vehicle off and step out of his vehicle. There were two subjects in the vehicle, one driving and one passenger. This stop was made at approximately3:30 a.m. Driver and passenger would not, at first, turn the vehicle off or exit the vehicle. Both were looking at me and then back at each other, talking. I turned my LaserMax on that was in my Glock model 21 and put it on the driver’s forehead after pointing across his face from eye-to-eye. My sergeant also had a laser on his Glock model 21 and he turned his laser on putting it on the forehead of the passenger.

See Elmer some agencies in Texas do carry Glock

 

[don10m]

And why don't you answer my question on unsupported cases and firing out of battery?

 

[JohnKSa]

Elmer,

Some of the departments and contracts you're listing are relatively new developments (particularly SIG's wins) and wouldn't have been reflected in statistics that were quoted as much as a year ago. As far as I know, Glock won't release such statistics (phony or otherwise) to the public, let alone to its competitors.

If you do an internet search using "Todd Green" and the word 'Beretta' you can find out a bit more about him.

I think Glock's share has been slipping of late, and I doubt that the 2/3 number still applies. But remember, we're talking about kB!s over the past 10 years or so--and during that time period the number would still have been in the ball park. Besides, all those ex-cop guns don't evaporate when Glock loses a contract. They go into the used gun market. CDNN always has a plethora of Glock LE trade-ins...

 

[hifi]

Confucious say: "Avoid both Wolf ammo AND Glock pistols. Life will be good."

 

[BluesBear]

Now there is a HUGE dang difference between individual officers within an agency using XYZ brand of firearms than the entire agency using XYZ brand of firearm.

I you could sell just one individual officer with each and ever law enforcement agancy in the U.S. an Iver Johnson revolver I bet you'd try to say that EVERY police agency USED Iver Johnson revolvers.

I'll wager that it would be very hard to find a police department in the U.S. that didn't have at least one officer that didn't still on occasion carry a revolver sometime somewhere. Does that mean that ALL police departments still use revolvers?

Some people will say that Glocks are a bargain. While other people will say that Glock knows what their pistols are worth. It's up to each person to make their own decision.

I believe you'll find that most agencies especially the smaller rural ones, allow their officers quite a bit of leeway in choosing a sidearm.
Since most peace officers purchase their weapon with their own money, and since most peace officers are not "gun people" you'll find a lot of them go with whatever costs the least.


Remember that NYPD never allowed their officers to carry a revolver CHAMBERED for .357 magnum on duty. LAPD didn't allow officers to carry .357 Magnum ammunition. The bigger departments that issue weapons and ammunition have never been accused of letting their pofficers carry what was best. Most, in fact, demand that their officers carry whatever was purchased from the lowest bidder.

McDonalds sells more hamburgers than ANYONE in the WORLD. Does that make them the best? The most nutricious? Does it make them anyone's favorite?

Does Ford make the best automobile on the planet? (I ain't saying they do or they don't, that's a whole 'nother ballgame) In spite of all of the recalls and past problems, the great majority of police crusiers in America are made by Ford. But does 70% of the population who pays for an automobile with their own personal money purchase Fords?

No one is saying that Glock hasn't sold boatloads of pistols. No one is saying that Glocks, for the most part, aren't reliable weapons. No one is saying you shouldn't own/buy/shoot/trust a Glock. No one is saying that your second cousin twice removed Gaston ain't a shrewd businessman.

We're just saying that "Perfection" it ain't.

And J.M. Browning he'll never be.
Of course after ol' John Moses was finished there wasn't a whole lot left to invent.

 

[jc2]

I think what really happens it, as stated earlier, if one officer in agency has ever bought Glock product then it gets figured into that nebulous "65%" as a Glock agency (regardless of whether it was just an individual LEO taking advantage of the LE discount and tax break to buy a weapon for his own personal use and/or resell or actually buying a weapon for use on the job). So, 65% of the LEAs may approve Glock for carry, but that is a long, long ways from 65% of the LE market.

FWIW, our local PDs have a "big boy" (if you buy and can qualify with it, you can carry)--the "gun people" tend to carry Government Models, and the "qualify once a year because I have to" tend to carry Glocks.

 

[Bobby Lee]

"We're just saying that "Perfection" it ain't.

And J.M. Browning he'll never be.
Of course after ol' John Moses was finished there wasn't a whole lot left to invent."

I see you point now. You assume that JMB's 1911 pistol IS perfection and in all those years since then no one could possibly invent a better pistol.

Now that is a Kool- Aid drinker for sure.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Marketing folks live in their own world and use their own language.

Guns used by 70% of police agencies doesn't preclude other guns being used, as well. It doesn't mean those are the standard, issued guns, etc.

We can see similar language offered up by CZ -- and I'm a big CZ fan -- which claims that CZs are more widely used in police and military application than any other handgun. Widely used? Perhaps, but the number sold to those various small police and military units probably doesn' match the number of Berettas in use by the US Army, alone.

You gotta take advertizing hype with a grain of salt -- if you take it at all.

 

[Bobby Lee]

"so you never answered my question, do you think unsupported cases or fire out of battery would cause the barrel or chamber to explode as in alot of Glocks that have been posted on the internet?"

I will give my opinion on the "unsupported cases" BS that I hear so much about.

Go to any range where there are a lot of Glock 40 caliber pistols being fired and pick up some of the fired brass from each Glock.

You may or may not find one Glock that tends to swell the brass at 6 o'clock.

You will find that most of the Glocks empty brass is perfectly normal.

The Glock pistol that is swelling the brass is a Glock that may blow up someday. A reload with weak brass or a hot load may blow out the brass and the pistol could come apart.

If you have a Glock that swells the brass at 6 o'clock then you have a defective pistol that need to go back to the factory.

Apparently they get carried away with cutting the chambers on SOME pistols and it is these pistols that are at risk of coming apart.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

I think a few parties here need to get off of their high horses and get back on topic.

I've read through this entire thread and haven't seen anyone state any facts yet, just a bunch of bitching whiners arguing one of two sides.

They've even stooped to insulting the state in which the person resides (I, too, went to an Alabama school for high school and college. I DARE any one of you to attack my grammar. I will bury you.[/b]) as well as bringing back the old 1911 vs. Glock debate.

Until we start getting 1911's that perform flawlessly out of the box without needing $1,000 worth of parts and gunsmith work to do so, I don't think either design can claim to be perfect.

 

[Bobby Lee]

"FWIW, our local PDs have a "big boy" (if you buy and can qualify with it, you can carry)--the "gun people" tend to carry Government Models, and the "qualify once a year because I have to" tend to carry Glocks."

It is the other way around at our PD.

They can carry almost anything they wish but they all except one carry a Glock. The one that does not carry a Glock carries a revolver.

The majority of them are "gun people" and they carry the Glock because of it's reliability and because they can shoot it well.

The guy that carries the revolver is the "old man" and he just don't like any auto pistol because he just don't trust them. This bad experience with autos comes from all the screwed up 1911's he has seen in his life.

 

[Dean Speir]

.

.

I think a few parties here need to get off of their high horses and get back on topic.

Speaking of hauts chevaux, Steve…

I've read through this entire thread and haven't seen anyone state any facts yet, just a bunch of bitching whiners arguing one of two sides.

And you're here to what, settle matters, actually offer up something dispositive of why Glocks seem to be more susceptible to explosive malfunctions if not full-on catastrophic failures?!?

As Ross Perot said, I'm all ears.

They've even stooped to insulting the state in which the person resides (I, too, went to an Alabama school for high school and college. I DARE any one of you to attack my grammar. I will bury you.)

No, Steve, not "they," me… repeatedly use painfully inept grammar and butcher diction, I may call you on it. You haven't, so I won't… but I am compelled to observe that if that's the sum and substance of what you could glean from the foregoing eight pages, then your reading skills are suspect.

…as well as bringing back the old 1911 vs. Glock debate.

Until we start getting 1911's that perform flawlessly out of the box without needing $1,000 worth of parts and gunsmith work to do so, I don't think either design can claim to be perfect.

Okay, you wanna get back on topic, and in that pursuit, you start with a non sequitur?!?

Toward the "back on topic" ideal, I have no track record with Wolf ammo, so I cannot speak to its quality or reliability, but I've got almost twenty (20) years in with Glock, I've done the work, have the reports and have published a collaborative Glock kB! FAQ peer-reviewed (by the old Glock-L list run by Mark Gibson)… and I update it as required.

I also get a little testy when people misrepresent it.

.

 

[Elmer]

The Glock pistol that is swelling the brass is a Glock that may blow up someday. A reload with weak brass or a hot load may blow out the brass and the pistol could come apart.

If you have a Glock that swells the brass at 6 o'clock then you have a defective pistol that need to go back to the factory.

Apparently they get carried away with cutting the chambers on SOME pistols and it is these pistols that are at risk of coming apart.

Well, Bobby Lee,

That's your theory on why some Glocks catastrophically come apart?

You may be right. I don't have the answer. But I'm glad to see you taking part in the discussion, and I appreciate your insightful opinion.

In that vein, I have in my possession, several reports from ammunition companies, where they take full responsibility, for defective ammunition they manufactured. They replaced the ammunition, and took care of any guns damaged.

Anybody ever seen anything like that from Glock? Has anything been their fault?

Just curious......

 

[Rinspeed]

Toward the "back on topic" ideal, I have no track record with Wolf ammo, so I cannot speak to its quality or reliability, but I've got almost twenty (20) years in with Glock, I've done the work, have the reports and have published a collaborative Glock kB! FAQ peer-reviewed (by the old Glock-L list run by Mark Gibson)… and I update it as required.

So you are an expert in the field of pistols blowing up.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you are an expert in the field of pistols blowing up.

Hey, everyone needs a hobby.

 

[Elmer]

Dean's taken the time to collect data from various places around the country, with dates, place's and names.

Who else is doing it?