Glock G30 Kaboom

[LynnMassGuy]

Notice the 9mm never blow up wonder why that is ? Ill buy a glock 9mm but nothing above that

I don't think many people reload 9mm. No reloads=no kabooms. Where there is reloaded ammo there are accidents. I doubt many guns have blown up using factory loaded ammo.

 

[Sarge111]

ACtually, there have been...

PLENTY of .40 & above Glocks, that have came unwound with factory ammo. I watched a string of NCIC teletypes from LE agencies, describing LE guns that blew up during range exercises- which are generally pretty detailed as to ammunition & conditions. They began about the time the .40 Glocks were introduced, and continue to pile up.

It ain't JUST the ammo.

 

[cracked butt]

Sounds like a piss poor design to me. Its getting to the point that I am no longer shocked when the weekly report of Glock KBs comes out.
handloads or not, there shouldn't be enough unsupported case in the chamber to allow for a catastrophic failure within reasonable loads. I've voided the warrantees of all my guns and reload for all of them and have never had a problem with caseheads blowing off, stocks shattering, bolts sticking out of my forehead, or loosing fingers/eyes, then again I don't own a GLock and never will.

I did have one KB however. It was with "remanufactured" ammo that looked like a double charge, but that was at least 2000 rounds ago in the gun.

 

[Carbon_15]

Copperized 230gr bullet from National Bullet

IIRC from my reloading days, aren't plated bullets loaded with different data than jacketed bullets? I seem to remember hreading somewhere that they should be treated like solid lead bullets. Not really sure since I never used them.

middy, Dean is probly prepairing his legal papers as we speak. Your flagrant copyright infringment must be prosecuted or everyone would steal from his sight.

 

[George Hill]

So what do you call Gold Dot bullets?

 

[Sean Smith]

Well, here is a specific case (no pun intended) where all the braying about "case support" is just ignorant.

Why? Almost NOBODY makes a .45 ACP autoloader that has much in the way of case support. Certainly a standard 1911 with the completely unramped barrel has lots of exposed brass at the web of the case. That goes double for any 1911 throated to feed hollowpoints or semi-wadcutters. Why? Because with ammo that isn't double-charged, a .45 ACP doesn't need it.

Think about it: how many MILLIONS of those are out there that haven't blown up? When is the last time that you heard about a .45 ACP 1911 kB! that wasn't 100% shooter (shooting into an obstructed bore) or loader (double-charging Bullseye or similar fast powder) error?

The .45 ACP is loaded to 21,000 PSI. .45 ACP +P is 23,000 PSI. By way of comparison, 9x19 and .40 S&W are 35,000 PSI, 10mm is 37,500 PSI and .357 Sig is over 40,000 PSI. There is a reason why .45 ACP guns of almost every description don't blow up: the pressure just ain't there. Unless, of course, you double-charge the case. And the nasty thing is, a double-charge isn't necessarily a linear increase in pressure. Bullet setback or over-seating the bullet can also produce considerable changes in pressure under certain conditions. So a .45 ACP double-charge might not be 42,000 PSI, but more like 60,000 PSI. Heck, there is probably room in the .45 ACP case to triple-charge with certain powders.

Of course, lots of .38 Supers that were handloaded overpressure on purpose to make USPSA Major blew up 1911s until ramped barrels with more case support were introduced. That's what you get for taking a case that is +P at 35,000 PSI and loading it to 40,000 or so ON PURPOSE. But "super face" stories are something for another time.

It could still be the Glock's fault, but almost certainly not because of case support in this case.

 

[JohnKSa]

Maybe some copper plated--I mean "copperized"--bullets are different, but the ones I've had experience with were no better than plain lead.

The absolutely worst case of barrel leading I've ever encountered was with some "copperized" bullets. Turned my Beretta into a smoothbore in less than 50 rounds.

 

[crewchief]

Somebody in this thread said, "any double charged .45 will kaboom". Well I have seen a P90 take a double on accident and laugh at it. Had it been a Glock "Hand Confetti" if it were a 1911 maybe a damaged slide rail or a little worse, but the Ruger not a damn thing. Sure it is bulky and heavy and maybe ugly to some but it is bar none the most solidly built .45 period. Now don't get me wrong I do own some 1911's and such but out of all guns I shoot I am never afraid to shoot that tank. If there is a more solidly built .45 out there prove it show me, and I will show you a picture of Rosie O' Donnell cleaning her AR wearing a I LOVE THE NRA shirt.

 

[Carbon_15]

Ok..your turn

 

[crewchief]

Hey carbon good one I like the CZ but my vote still goes to the Ruger I am actually considering my next purchace being the CZ, but my wife wants a .357 for CCW carry. God I love that woman, she was a MP and is not afraid to shoot anything......well maybe the S&W 500, but she is one of the best skeet shooters male or female.

 

[dandean316]

Had it been a Glock "Hand Confetti" if it were a 1911 maybe a damaged slide rail or a little worse, but the Ruger not a damn thing.

I've double charged 1911's - accidently and on purpose. No problems.

I'm not saying to double charge, but the Ruger isn't the only gun that will take the double.

 

[crewchief]

I hear you Dan and I know that alot of 1911 will stand up to it that is why I own some, but why would you want to double charge on purpose?

 

[gyp_c2]

...I seem to remember something about "lead" reloads being the supposed trigger to the KBs in the beginning...anybody else remember it being attributted to lead bullets?
It's a given that a x2 , x3, etc. can cause this, but it appears that each of these took place after 50rds or so had been fired, just about enough to start leading up and drying up the gun...so what reason would there be for jacketed rds to explode other than an overcharged case? Unless there was something else wrong that just hadn't been detected yet, I'm not buying just random events...
If ever there was a case for forensics!... this would be a great way to become a star in that field of endeavor, break the case of the exploding pistol...

 

[Arc Angel]

If I may, I'd like to get in on this. I have to ask; ‘What is it about owning a Glock that seems to create this, ostrich with his head in the sand, ass in the air, mentality?’ If someone said the brakes on my Blazer aren’t as good as the brakes on my Bronco, most drivers would, simply, want to know more. However if any sort of statement diminishing the safety or reliability of a Glock pistol is made, then, the most intense owner/user passions seem to be aroused!

Historically, it has, now, been well-established that Glock pistols have more of a propensity to explode than many other manufactures or designs. (Which, by the way, also blowup on occasion, but without the same apparent frequency.) In reading about Glock pistols, ‘across the boards’ I’ve come to the personal conclusion that many Glock owners would be less upset if told that their spouses had been caught cheating rather than Glock pistols are easy to blow up. It’s incredible!

This often reported, frequently ignored, and usually rationalized propensity for Glock pistols to explode is exacerbated by several criteria particular to Glock’s design: (1) excessively rebated chambers, (2) sharp edges around the chamber, ‘leade’ area, (3) tight polygonal hammer-forged barrels, and (4) the use of modern high pressure cartridges in Glock pistols: i.e., 357SIG, S&W 40, 10mm, and (also) the 45ACP. (I hesitate to include the 45ACP cartridge, here, because I am of the opinion that: owner neglect, and (maybe) a bad batch of barrel steel are outstanding factors involved in 45ACP Glock pistol explosions.)

I never cease to be amazed at the almost total lack of common sense regarding the use of Glock pistols that I read across the various shooting forums. If someone said; ‘I drove my car for more than 100,000 miles without changing the oil.’ we’d, all, know what to think. (I don’t, even, need to explain – do I!) However, when some shooter brags; ‘I have shot my Glock for more than 5,000 rounds without cleaning it.’ the typical response seems to be; ‘Wow!’ What has happened to: shooting experience, military training, and good old fashioned (not so common) common sense? At this juncture, ‘Why’ even bother using Remington Golden Sabres or Speer Gold Dots in the pistol? This filthy dirty, badly neglected pistol may not fire, or else it may explode - anyway! Frankly, I doubt that the boys on, ‘Seal Team #6’ carry their pistols in this sort of crummy condition; yet, this sort of braggadocio is, both, accepted and common at far too many Glock forums!

Is anything said, so far, a recommendation to get rid of your Glock pistols? No! Not in this author’s intent! ‘What’ I am stating, here - ‘What’ I am recommending - is for Glock owners to become more aware of the pluses and minuses associated with the use of modern Glock pistols. I would encourage all Glock owners to use their Glock pistols the same way they operate their automobiles: with care, skill, and knowledge. To be perfectly candid, (which I, often, hesitate to be) I love my Glock Model 21’s. I’m very fond of the trigger design as well as the balance of this pistol design. (I do have certain reservations about Glock’s, ‘safe-trigger’ design; but this is a subject for another post.) Let me offer the following suggestions for the safe use of a Glock pistol:

(1) Use common firearms’ sense: Keep your Glock pistol properly lubricated as well as reasonably clean.

(2) Develop an acute sense of awareness about keeping your finger outside the trigger guard. Always use a holster that completely covers a Glock’s trigger guard area; and, if you carry unconventionally, take the precaution of installing a, ‘Saf-T-Blok’ device behind the trigger. I keep several, ‘Saf-T-Bloks’ around the house; if I have a Glock pistol lying about, then, I make sure there’s a, ‘Saf-T-Blok’ installed behind the trigger. Just so you know, I have found that using one of these safety devices adds ZERO TIME to the draw.

Remember important (frequently un:discussed) points like; ‘If you drop a Glock pistol, DON’T attempt to catch it before it hits the ground.’ You might snare the trigger guard if you should attempt this and fire the pistol. Remember that the Glock design precludes firing on impact – so just let that Glock fall.’

(3) At least once a year, do a complete detail strip of your Glock pistol(s). Pay particular attention to the trigger connector bar and trigger spring, as well as the slide and its internal areas. I clean out my extractor rod and firing pin channels with Q-Tips or pipe cleaners every 1,500 rounds. Clean and take a close look at the following slide components: the f.p. safety block, extractor, extractor spring & rod, the firing pin assembly - including the f.p. itself, the f.p. spring, the retainer cups, and surrounding spacer. If any of the parts in, either, the trigger group or slide show the slightest sign of wear, replace it before shooting the pistol again.

(4) Listen to the manufacturer, (Glock) who isn’t always to be ignored; and don’t shoot lead bullets in your Glock pistol. Yes, I know, ‘Harry the frequent poster’ over at GT does it all the time; but you should NOT.

(5) Use more than average care if you reload for a Glock pistol; and I strongly recommend taking the time to run your reloads through a nice tight case gauge (Dillon) before you package them for use. (If your experience is similar to my own, you will occasionally be surprised at what you find and very glad the offending reload didn’t make it into your Glock. I’ve, also, spoken with other Glock pistol shooters who have all told me, essentially, the same thing: Not one of them shoots reloads in his Glock pistol using the same brass beyond the sixth (6th) time. Personally, I think this is an excellent rule-of-thumb; I use it myself; and I, also, recommend it for other Glock owners who insist on reloading for a Glock, as well.

(6) If you use a Glock pistol in one of the previously mentioned, ‘high pressure’ cartridges, then, develop the habit of NOT re:chambering the same round twice; and, no matter how many GT’ers are doing it, DO NOT reload or use reloads for any of these calibers. I’m not saying this can’t be done; obviously it can. I am stating that it’s, just, not worth the increased risk; and let’s not forget that the manufacturer (who isn’t always to be ignored) states across-the-board NOT TO RELOAD FOR A GLOCK PISTOL. (At this point, here’s a, ‘tip of the hat’ to the dummy, ‘Glockophile’ who’s going to come back at me with; ‘This is nothing more than legal boiler-plate.’ As of February, 2004, it should be painfully obvious that IT IS NOT.)

(7) For the record, I think it’s about time that someone pointed out that it isn’t, simply, unsupported cases or powder overcharges that will, ‘kaBoom!’ a Glock. IT’S BULLET SETBACK – INSTEAD! A Glock reloader can scrupulously examine his case heads for expansion, be meticulously accurate with his powder charges, and STILL BLOW HIS GLOCK UP IN HIS FACE!

(8) The other critical point about reloading for a Glock is BEING ABLE TO GUARANTEE THE GRASP OF THE CRIMP - EVERY TIME - ON EVERY ROUND.

With repetitively fired brass, this is not, always, an easy thing to do. In spite of the constant recommendations by several loudmouthed, ‘Glockophiles’ who frequently post, ‘Get a set of Lee FCD dies.’ (factory crimp dies) FCD’s aren’t going to save you from the dangers of using out-of-specification brass in a Glock pistol. FCD’S WILL, ONLY, REDUCE THE FREQUENCY OF INCORRECTLY ASSEMBLED BRASS GOING, ‘KaBOOM!’ IN THE FIRST PLACE!

People who shoot Glock pistols need to understand that:

KaBOOMS! ARE MORE OFTEN CAUSED BY LOOSE CRIMPING AND/OR BULLET SETBACK THAN BY BULGED CASEHEADS, OR POWDER OVERCHARGES! Add any or all of the other factors I've mentioned into this mix and that, 'kaBoom!' is absolutely guaranteed!

Although I fully recognize that kids aren’t going to stop smoking grass, and, ‘Glockophiles’ usually can’t be reasoned with, nevertheless, I sincerely hope that you enjoy shooting your Glock pistol(s) as much as I like to shoot mine; and (because I hate to see women cry) that you, also, shoot your Glock with wisdom and safety, too. Good luck to you!

Note: (Yes, it is, ‘kaBoom!’, ‘KaBOOM!’ or, ‘kB!’ – Not any of the other frequent misspellings we, so often, see. Dean Speir invented the word; and he’s the ultimate authority on how it should be spelled! These are the ways HE spells it.)

 

[crewchief]

Gyp,

I was in my dealer about a month ago and the Glock rep was there at the same time and when he was alone I asked him about the KB's. He said that it was attributed to reloded ammo using lead bullets and the barrel design. I also asked what the deal was with the Tacoma PD turning in all of their guns because of the two KB's that they had in ond month. His reply was that the police chief has refused to send in the firearms for examination and that because of that they were determining that is was an error on the PD part and not theirs(what type of error he did not specify). At this point he was getting a little red in the face because I kept battering him with questions and he could not come up with enough excuses, oh I mean answers. Anyhow I think that he left a little PO'd at me but I don't care he is the one that did not have the answers.

 

[tiberius]

(4) Listen to the manufacturer, (Glock) who isn’t always to be ignored; and don’t shoot lead bullets in your Glock pistol. Yes, I know, ‘Harry the frequent poster’ over at GT does it all the time; but you should NOT.

Wheres does Glock provide this warning against lead?

Thanks,

 

[dandean316]

but why would you want to double charge on purpose?

See the posts by CLARK.

 

[TaxPhd]

"People who shoot Glock pistols need to understand that:

KaBOOMS! ARE MORE OFTEN CAUSED BY LOOSE CRIMPING AND/OR BULLET SETBACK THAN BY BULGED CASEHEADS, OR POWDER OVERCHARGES! Add any or all of the other factors I've mentioned into this mix and that, 'kaBoom!' is absolutely guaranteed!"

How, after the fact, can it be determined that a KB was caused by bulet setback, or a double charge?




Scott

 

[Island Beretta]

I have had a G19 kb on me. Even as I write this I am looking at the scar on my hand. I was firing reloads but it appeared as if the primary cause was that the gun was dirty and so it wasn't locking up as tight as it should. An out of battery shot did not provide the necessary case support and coupled with the already stressed casing it was a recipe for disaster. It was not as bad as the .40 kbs I have seen as the only damage sustained was to the magazine release and the extractor although it did spray debris all over inlcuding my glasses, face and mouth. Smoke trails from the gun was present for quite a few seconds. The explosion shifted my grip on the gun and I got cut by the slide.

It truly was a scary experience!! Even after the gun was repaired I was tentative about firing it again.

With regards to reloads, this is common practice when firing large quantities of rounds as it is just too expensive to go with shop ammo. Ask any top shooter and they will tell you they practice with reloads.

These are the things I have learned about Glocks and it may surprise a few:

1. Keep them clean.
2. Keep the springs healthy-positive lockup and consistently powered firing pin strikes are very important to the safety and operation of the gun.
3. Do not dry-fire extensively without a snap cap.
4. Ensure a positive grip.

Also on the old TFL forum we do have a bit of technical discussions on this issue. Dig it up if you feel the need!!

 

[sturmruger]

MATH

I will start off by saying that I do not own any glock pistols. I have shot a couple of Glocks, but was not really impressed with them. I am planning on purchasing a G26 in the near future that was one Glock I was really impressed with.

I know Glock is one of the best selling pistols brands in the US, I think we can chalk allot of these KBs up to one thing. There are more Glocks out there then anything else. Why keep blaming KBs on just Glock. Let's look at this mathematically. Let say just for our discussion that 0.001% of all pistols KB at some point. Then let’s assume that Glock has 40% of market, if everyone else has a 5-10% market share that means that Glock is having 4-8 times as many KBs as any other manufacturer. If you are on the internet and read all of the Glock KB stories it is going to sound like Glock has a real problem. The only problem I can see is Glock being the biggest. I sell wireless phones at the retail level. I also handle returns and phone warranties. It really doesn’t matter what phone manufacturer you buy 4-5% of all phone need to be send in for repair. There is not getting around that figure. I am sure the same can be said for guns. There has to be a national average. Whatever that figure is, it is rational to believe that whoever has the most guns out there in the publics hands will suffer the most catastrophic problems.

It isn’t a polymer problem it is a math problem!!!

 

[Sarge111]

Math problem indeed...

So where were all these inevitable, gonna-happen-no-matter-what KaBooms before the .40+ Glocks hit the market- and why weren't we seeing all those NCIC teletypes before they did?

 

[45auto]

The amount of Glock's sold would have an effect on the number of KBs in total, no doubt. The more sold, the more chance of having a problem.

The disturbing ones are the 45 KBs. That's a low pressure round and sales of Glock 45's would be dwarfed by the 1911 variants.

Also, it may be that I don't shoot enough or I travel in a different shooting crowd, but I have never experienced, seen, or know anyone that has a real KB, splitting bbls or frames, black smoke and all that. Bad ammo, duds, dribble out of the bbl type of problems is not all that uncommon.

And I don't expect to have one, I don't think it's "part" of the shooting experience with reasonable care and proper guns. Arc Angel may have some valid points.

Just watch, after saying all that, the next time I go shooting...

 

[mete]

Arc Angel, you,ve got the story straight. Somewhere on the internet there is info on pressure vs setback ,the one number I remember is setback of the 40 of .100" will DOUBLE the pressure !!...Lead bullet problems are caused by lead deposits at the front of the chamber preventing full seating therefore more unsupported case. Other dirt can do the same thing.... Count the times you have reloaded the cases and disgard at an appropriate number.Cut cases open to see and measure thinning to determine that number......When I was doing gunsmithing for bullseye shooters and they brought me 22 autos that wouldn't work I would ask 'when was the last time you cleaned it?' often the response was 'maybe a year ago'.Typically the pistols only needed a cleaning...When I bought my Benelli I asked the gunsmith about maintenance, he said that at least 50% of the shotguns returned because they wouldn't work only needed a cleaning.

 

[Arc Angel]

Question #1: ‘Where does Glock provide this warning against lead?’ Answer: In the owner’s manual.

Question #2: ‘How, after the fact, can it be determined that a KB (sic) was caused by bullet setback, or a double charge?’ Answer: By investigation and analysis. Where setback is the culprit, sometimes other rounds have been found that are, also, setback or loosely crimped.

Island Beretta: Right on! That’s good advice. Sorry you had to learn the hard way. Just so you’re aware, there is a thread over at, ‘Gun-Talk.com’ that addresses problems with the internal components of Glock slides. It discusses some of the reasons, ‘Why’ I clean out and inspect my Glock slides every 1,500 rounds, or so. Here’s the link: http://gun-talk.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000701;p=2

By the way, I deliberately didn’t mention, ‘firing out of battery’ in my previous post because the suspected causes are as diverse as they are controversial. (I’m really not looking for a fight.) I do, however, very much like your first hand explanation (No pun intended.) of what happened with your Model G-19. So far, in spite of everything I’ve heard as well as a number of adamant denials, I am, still, NOT convinced that Glock pistols cannot, ‘slam-fire’; and I continue to watch the boards for evidence.

Sarge: To quote you verbatim; ‘So where were all these inevitable, gonna-happen-no-matter-what KaBooms before the .40+ Glocks hit the market- and why weren't we seeing all those NCIC teletypes before they did?’

Yup! Is it OK if I quote you from time to time? I fired Colt GM 1911’s for more than 40 years without experiencing a single kaBoom! in any of my pistols or those used by any other shooters that I knew. Sure, every now and then, you heard about an overcharge or a bullet stuck in the barrel; but it wasn’t until the advent of, ‘plastic pistols’ in 1985 that, both, the frequent phenomenon of mysteriously exploding pistols and the word, ‘kaBoom!’ began to appear with the, ‘regularity of rain’.

Mete: Thanks for the vote of confidence. I’m not an easy guy to impress; but I would like to compliment those of you who’ve replied so far. The responses have been far more circumspect and objective than I, frankly, anticipated. Who knows? If Glock owners keep this up, the mystery of, ‘exploding plastic pistols’ may, one day, be cleared up! That would be nice, now, wouldn't it.

 

[jc2]

Question #1: ‘Where does Glock provide this warning against lead?’ Answer: In the owner’s manual.

Only very recently (within the last one to two years). I have a Glock (and have had several more), and none of the manuals include any warning concerning the use of lead bullets.