Got made, today.

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Do something so you don't get made next time..... the more you carry the more natural it will be, and the less you will fidget with it and draw attention.....

From there on out you handled it perfect..... I was waiting to read that you went to the Post Office and got busted as soon as you pulled in the lot.... (sadly, more because I want to see a precedent, than out of your best interest... if it helps, I'd have been rooting for you to clearly win it in court... :) ... nothing against you, you see?)

By all means you should know the laws in your area (as far as I know it isn't clear as to whether the parking lot is part of the Post Office, which is clearly an 'illegal carry' area for the CCW holder... avoid that situation until it is clear), but don't let the police in your area intimidate you from carrying.... that is a tactic that should not, in the interest of all CCW holders, be accepted and allowed to work....

I'm not saying file a complaint, or that the cops were in any way 'crooked', there is no reason to try to make that call, but they should know that this tactic isn't appropriate, and at very least won't keep you from exercising your rights.... if they are jerks, they don't get the reward (you quitting carrying).... if they are just ill informed, they quickly learn that there is no reward (no anyone 'getting busted').
 
I feel guilty if you're thanking me for anxiously waiting to see what happened when you entered Postal property..... lol....

As to judging and or criticizing the cops.... perhaps they were responding to an alarm at the UPS (or any other scenario that might have put the flags up).... then you getting angry and or complaining actually teaches them a bad habit (not to check into the next armed guy at an alarm call/whatever.... and then it may be an armed perp)..... , or maybe they just pissy.... either way, it's pretty irrelevant as to solution to the problem....
 
I don't know for sure but here in florida a few weeks ago there was s SD shooting that envolved a mail sorter who had just left work at the PO and drove home, when he got out to open his gate a car pulled up and tried to mug him at gun point, at which time he produced a pistol and shot the BG in the belly. So if an employee of the post office had a gun in his vehicle at work then im sure you could have one in yours too.
Although I'm not sure about how the gun locked in your car law in florida would appy to restricted places (schools, PO, other federal places)
 
I would be pissed.

Cop had no reason to suspect you of any wrongdoing.

No probable cause whatsoever given that carrying a gun is legal and you had done nothing else illegal or suspicious.

Follow you all over town and then have three units respond? Three???!!! You'd think they were chasing Bonnie and Clyde, for crying out loud.

99% of the time I support the cops. This is the 1%. I'd be raising Hell for detaining me even one second without cause.

This is why they make lawyers.
 
Of course they did something wrong. Why didnt the cop ask him for his permit at the begining, instead of following him and then detaining him with two other cops present
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It's called "waiting for backup".......standard procedure. Unless it's life or death, only an idiot(or a High Road mall ninja)would confront an armed person alone without first getting assistance or letting someone else know the description of the armed person. Again, standard procedure unless it's an emergency situation. He probably also ran the vehicle plates in the meantime. Maybe it's news to you, but most gun toting folks that police confront aren't law abiding citizens. Believe it or not there's a good reason to have a tactical advantage when trying to keep your azz from gettin' killed. I see nothing wrong or extraordinary with what the police did considering the circumstances and the fact the OP was obviously carrying and did not declare. Maybe there was something else that raised suspicions, like body language, who knows.....but I figure the officer was more concerned with safety and goin' home to his wife and kids than what a bunch of cop hater Rambo wannabes on a gun forum think.
 
RoostRider: I was saying thank you for encouraging me to continue carrying, mostly. Also for the other comments of support.

I'm fairly confident that body language had nothing to do with it. I wasn't the slightest bit worried, until I noticed I was being followed. When I realized my shirt was riding upon first exiting the car, my gun was at 4 o'clock, and I was certain the cop hadn't seen it. He specifically said he noticed it when I had my back turned and was picking up a heavy box. I wasn't doing anything wrong, and I intended to do nothing wrong, so far as I was aware. But who knows why the cop was there to begin with? He certainly wasn't there to drop off a package! So maybe something bigger was going on at the UPS, afterall.
 
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I don't get the following you bit, but if there were other cops in the area it makes things safer for him without violating your rights by having back up before approaching you.

Maybe he followed you because he was afraid if there was shooting there would be more bystanders in the first area.
 
Contrary to some other peoples' outrage, I'm ok with everything that the cops actually did.

The only thing I would not have been hunky dory about is if I had pulled into the post office and the blue and red lights came on, seconds after the cop told me to my face that it would be perfectly ok to do so. We'll never know what WOULD have happened. Would anyone else have tried their luck? I'm guessing no!
 
No problem GLOOB, I was just messing with you.... I am sure you are greatfull for all the advice you have gotten so far, not just from me.... you seem to have a good handle on it, and as I noted, I think you did the right thing... :)

jhco said:
I don't know for sure but here in florida a few weeks ago there was s SD shooting that envolved a mail sorter who had just left work at the PO and drove home, when he got out to open his gate a car pulled up and tried to mug him at gun point, at which time he produced a pistol and shot the BG in the belly. So if an employee of the post office had a gun in his vehicle at work then im sure you could have one in yours too.
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I'm not ragging on you at all jhco, because I think you worded it perfectly with the exception of "im sure", and I highlighted the most pertinent part....

As far as I know this issue regarding the PO's parking lots is not settled, and I don't want to be the test subject on that one. Whether or not a Postal Employee chooses to have a loaded gun (on his person, or in his car) on Postal property doesn't concern me much, and won't be my basis for a conclusion on the subject. Esspecially when it is heresay and I don't know the circumstances that Postal employee had (perhaps he parks off site? maybe he has a special permit? maybe he stopped along the way? maybe no one is making an issue of it, so it isn't getting persued?..... wayyyyy too many variables in that one for me to stake my freedom and RTKBA on....)

I am however open to anyone who can cite me law on the subject
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when he was following you, couldn't he have just run your plate and seen that you were a CPL holder that way? In my state, LEOs know you're a CPL holder when they run your plate. LEOs on here, when you run a person's plate, does it show his/her driver's license picture? If so, the LEO could have verified that you are the person to whom the car is registered, the person he saw carrying a firearm, and that you have a CPL.
 
Of course they did something wrong. Why didnt the cop ask him for his permit at the begining, instead of following him and then detaining him with two other cops present? Then why follow him when he left?

BTW factcheck.org was blown out of the water as being horribly biased and a joke. Check it out on the net.
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He wasn't detained. If cops hear something on the radio more than one might pop up just in case, sounds crazy huh? I mean, you're doing a dangerous job that gets blasted constantly by people and decided to watch out for a friend, pfft! The nerve! :rolleyes:

We have no idea if he was followed or not. OP, was the car that "followed" you one of the same from the stop?

And BTW next time provide some evidence for claims you make regarding my signature.

Maybe he got suspicious because he made you and you had not declared?
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That sounds completely reasonable. :)

I would be pissed.

Cop had no reason to suspect you of any wrongdoing.

No probable cause whatsoever given that carrying a gun is legal and you had done nothing else illegal or suspicious.

Follow you all over town and then have three units respond? Three???!!! You'd think they were chasing Bonnie and Clyde, for crying out loud.

99% of the time I support the cops. This is the 1%. I'd be raising Hell for detaining me even one second without cause.

This is why they make lawyers.
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See above, and Terry vs Ohio.[Source 2.]

I know you are being sarcastic, but for a touchy subject I think people are being very high road. Not liking our public servants acting more everyday like gov't storm troopers and our DA's who act like Mike Niphong's is a very legitamate sequence when talking about a law abiding person being harrassed by LEO just because he is legally carrying.
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Because every police officer is OUT TO GET US GUYS. You have enough tin-foil there?

The guy wasn't harassed, and suggesting that if he was, it was because he was carrying concealed legally is outright absurd. He was made, and didn't alert the officer to the fact that he was a CCW permit holder after having a conversation with him. He made a booboo, the cop played it safe. Unfortunately, the OP was inconvenienced for a short amount of time - but you learn from your mistakes and move on.


It's called "waiting for backup".......standard procedure. Unless it's life or death, only an idiot(or a High Road mall ninja)would confront an armed person alone without first getting assistance or letting someone else know the description of the armed person. Again, standard procedure unless it's an emergency situation. He probably also ran the vehicle plates in the meantime. Maybe it's news to you, but most gun toting folks that police confront aren't law abiding citizens. Believe it or not there's a good reason to have a tactical advantage when trying to keep your azz from gettin' killed. I see nothing wrong or extraordinary with what the police did considering the circumstances and the fact the OP was obviously carrying and did not declare. Maybe there was something else that raised suspicions, like body language, who knows.....but I figure the officer was more concerned with safety and goin' home to his wife and kids than what a bunch of cop hater Rambo wannabes on a gun forum think.
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I'd give you a gold star if I could, this pretty much sums it up. +1 :cool:

Well if you had been in my state and openly carrying, chances are you would have avoided the drama. ;)
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Open Carry state high five. ^5
 
Kilo729- I disagree totally. Being stopped and questioned and intimidated by three officers (having so many cops on hand would be intimidating by nature of the sheer size of the police presence) is absolutely harassme4nt.

How could the OP have known he should have "declared" to the officer when he didn't realize that the cop had seen the gun print when he bent over? He was trying to deliver packages to UPS. He was doing NOTHING illegal or suspicious. The cop had NO RIGHT or LEGAL JUSTIFICATION to stop him and question him.

Also note that the detention and interrogation CONTINUED after he advised the cops that he had a carry permit. THAT should have ended the questioning right then and there. It did not.

The cop assumed that the OP was suspect because he thought (no absolute proof, recall, just a chance spotting of an outline of something that MAY have been a gun) that the subject was armed. Since many law abiding people are legally armed this is NO WAY any semblance probable cause.

Lots of crooks drive cars when committing crimes. Does this men the cops should stop anyone driving a car and demand their papers... I mean question them? Lots of crooks wear hooded sweatshirts. Should anyone wearing one of these be subject to detention and questioning? Seems like a number of criminals happen to be black. Should all black people be stopped on the street and questioned about possible criminal activity? Where do you draw the line?

I would be filing suit for violating my civil liberties. Cops overstepped. Period.
 
Next time pull over in a well ight area, give the officer the chance to stop or drive by. If he stops ask the officer what he needs or can he offer some advise. Do it while your phone is on message record or have a recorder on in a pocket. If he is full of crap, you could have him both on video and recorded. These are words that both some cops and sherrifs told me that i rode with in florida. They don't like the punks that are in the departments anymore than we do and they all have them. Not always new be's, some well season at screw'n with people.
 
No saxon, they didn't. He wasn't arrested - which is what detained means. Taking the CCW class should have told the OP if he should have declared to the officer if he had a conversation with him. And after being stopped he spoke freely with the police - and may have come off nervous, because it was his first time, which seems suspicious outright.

He raised a flag by printing and not saying anything after having a conversation with the officer.

Simply saying you have a permit isn't good enough, they have to check. :rolleyes:

When it's someones job to recognize potential threats or illegal activity, I'd bet a large sum of money that the officer knew it was a gun - how many of us can tell when someone prints? It's not like the Mall Ninjas of this forum

Like someone else said in this thread, they deal more with criminals carrying illegally than they do with law abiding citizens.

You're overreacting to the police checking to see if this gun toting gentlemen was doing so legally. Your suit would be kicked out of court.
 
IMHO unless you have been a police officer and walked the walk, your complaining is without as much merit as if you had. If there is a real problem, write a complaint to the department. If not, get over it and join the PBA or FOP and support those that risk their lives for you.
rhtwist
 
He raised a flag by printing and not saying anything after having a conversation with the officer.
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From what I can see he didn't know he was printing. Like they say, concealed means concealed. I don't walk up to people and tell them I'm carrying just in case they saw something.

I don't know that the LEO's did anything wrong but I really don't think the OP did either.
 
buck460XVR the "Rambo wannabes on a gun forum" comment wasn't High Road at all.
I don't know what the laws are regarding CCW in North Carolina where I believe the OP is from, he may have been in error when he didn't declare his weapon during his first encounter with the police officer. In my own home state (Georgia) there are so many restrictions on where one can & cannot carry it is very easy to mess up & break the law unintentionally. I read a good suggestion earlier today about restudying the concealed carry laws every six months or so to keep them refreshed in your mind. I can understand why an officer would want back up when confronting someone he knows to be armed. The part I question is whether or not the confrontation was even necessary.
Just because someone chooses to practice their 2A rights does not make them a criminal or mean they should be treated like one. Many police departments use methods like this to discourage concealed carry. If every time someone carries they wind up being stopped & having to wait while the police check them out it may make them question whether or not it is worth it to carry. It is a way police can harass people for exercising their constitutional rights.
I am not saying all police are bad. However police are people just like everyone else. Some are good, some are bad, and the policies they follow are those of their superiors that may have other motives.
There was an incident recently here in GA where a man legally carrying in a public transit station was detained for over an hour for no reason other than an officer saw his gun printing. There is also a law suit in process right now as a result of that encounter. I don't think the issue is anyone hating the police or thinking they are all bad, The issue is police departments shouldn't harass armed citizens simply because they are armed.
 
From what I can see he didn't know he was printing. Like they say, concealed means concealed. I don't walk up to people and tell them I'm carrying just in case they saw something.

I don't know that the LEO's did anything wrong but I really don't think the OP did either.
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Not knowing he printed doesn't matter, re-read what I wrote. If he's from NC he was in the wrong for not telling the cop he was carrying - period.

The part I question is whether or not the confrontation was even necessary
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Yes, it was. He was carrying a gun and didn't tell the cop. How many times do I have to say it?

The OP was carrying concealed, and didn't alert and officer. The officer flat out told him he saw the printing when he stopped him.
 
Check the facts most police where bullied kids, now they are the bullies. I know its hard to take but that fact alone is indicative of 91% of the police force makeup. I park across the street from the post office every time I go for just that reason. Public property and I can lock my weapon up, and get it back on just as soon as I am back to the car.
 
Next time call Ghostbusters! And yes there are exceptions, positively.
rhtwist
 
That is dissapointing...NC (in particular Meck Co.) is starting to take the low road more and more. :(
 
I see what you mean kilo, not realizing you should declare, especially while doing something really suspicious like trying to send a package is sure to indicate criminal intent.
 
Yes, the LEO said he was printing when he stopped AFTER the OP said he was licensed. The officer said nothing at their first meeting. As far as I know you only need to declare when stopped and this was a conversation in a UPS parking lot.
 
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