Gun dealers gone bad

[HarcyPervin]

Its bad all over. I used to get broomed out of the gun departments as a teenager (had to be 18 to look at guns at Galyans???) even when I respectfully told the employees that was just interested in looking, not handling anything. I eventually told a couple of the guys that it was ok because I probably knew more about their merchandise than they did. There was a quiet, older guy, who started to recognize me after awhile and would actually take time to talk about stuff with me when he had time. He was very knowledgable and seemed to honestly care more about sharing an interest than selling another hypermagnum.

Its not only the gun industry either. When I started motorcycle shopping a few years back, I had a sales guy tell me that since I was 6'2" that I needed at least a Yamaha R1 (a 190hp crotch-rocket capable of 175+mph) for my first bike, to be comfortable. I immediately asked if repeat business was tough to come by when most of his customers were dead....then left.

I'm sure there were a lot of guys who would have bought a $13,000 superbike for their first bike, and I'm sure there's a lot of guys who've traded their Kimbers for a Taurus. I knew that an R1 was a death sentence for a first time rider, because I did my research. There's a responsibility that we all have as buyer and seller (caveat emptor/venditor etc.) We should also be sharing the names of the shops and dealers that are doing things the right way (Mods - hint for a dealer section??)

I'm tired and this is weaving all over the place....long story short - watch out for the idiots, and try not to be one.

 

[mortablunt]

As much as the OP gripes and you commiserate with him, remember that it could be worse. You could be 18, short, look 14, really know what you're talking about, and want an AK. The Mall Ninja accusations and odd looks never stop!

 

[vellocet]

The OP did not mentioned the beady-eyed geek who is almost always sitting on a stool in the shop. He is not an employee, but always seems to be there.

 

[chrt396]

As much as the OP gripes and you commiserate with him, remember that it could be worse. You could be 18, short, look 14, really know what you're talking about, and want an AK. The Mall Ninja accusations and odd looks never stop!

Again...the post mentioned that 1, (one), uno description of an idiot behind the counter that was wearing the same boots I wanted...is the same one that told me that the boots were somewhat syonomous with law enforcement and military and basically asked..."Well...why do YOU want them?" I guess I'm not driving my point home here!! Therefore..I'll stop. There are some people that will look for hidden meanings no matter what. It's a mindset. When many guys get around guns..all of a sudden the testosterone flies and it's a grudge match. I am certain that many of you out there in the forum know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

 

[N003k]

Chrt, I think the problem is in the OP it doesnt come off sounding like he was saying "Well...why do YOU want them?", but rather more of "Oh, lot of Mil and LE buy those." More of a product endorsement to me it seems than a attempt to dissuade you from buying. That might be why you're getting some of the responses you are.

 

[BIGBANG]

I totally agree with the op, it reminds me of the time I was looking for a small 9mm for carry, I walked into a store and they were selling keltec p11's for $419 I asked why and he told me they were a better gun than the ruger sr9c or glock 19, I just laughed and said really? then left. There will always be people trying to take advantage of people they think doesn't know very much about the firearms world.

 

[oldbear]

F. Why is it..that 85% of the guys that work in gun stores, wearing tactical pants, boots, shirts..and don't smile..and act like a bad ass cop. Whats funny..is that most of them have never been in law enforcement or the military..and yet they act like they are part of the Seal team that caught Osama. I went in looking for a pair of boots. I didn't want the 8 inch high tactical boots..I just wanted the 5 inch ones. The sales guy states that they sell these boots primarily to police depts and military. I ask..well..do you sell to the public..he states..Well.yes! OK..do you have these in my size? He states NO. OK I say..I'll come back when you get some. This 5'5" guy sombers out from behind the counter with his full tactical attire..and guess what boots he's wearing? The same ones that I wanted. I asked..Oh..by the way....you look familiar. What branch did you serve. Oh..I wasn't in the military he says. Then i asked..What department do you work out of? (police). He says..I never worked at the police dept. Where did you work before here? A GROCERY STORE HE REPLIED!!!! I then got ballsy and asked him.."Then why are you wearing those boots?" He had absoulutely ZERO..NADA..NUTTIN' to say at that point. He clammed up and went in to the back stock room and NEVER emerged.

Jeez...I hate buttheads that lie and act like something they're not!

All of us have

Experienced this from time to time and most of us just shine it on. Sadly all to many new or potentially new shooters, when exposed to this attitude believe that this is normal behavior with gun owners. IMHO a few mall ninjas and want to be black operators are doing a great deal of damage to the image of our sport.

And yes, these guys really upset me.

 

[Telekinesis]

Thats another thing, my local department only gives out permits to those that are 21. They say no exceptions but legally they have to me a permit. I've just haven't had the ability or the time to challenge them to get my permit.

I'm facing that same thing here in Jefferson Co. Alabama. State law says its ok at 18 but the Sheriff won't issue until 21. I just decided to wait until I turn 21 (only about a month now) because I don't have the money or the desire to take on the Sheriff. Sometimes politics down here can get dirty, and I have a suspicion that if I did challenge it, he'd just find another reason to deny me. Ahh, the joys of living in a May Issue state... :banghead:

But I am surprised that a NH Sheriff's dept wouldn't issue you a permit. I got my NH Non-Res permit when I was 19!

 

[youngda9]

I have cowboy boots....putting on my flame suit right now.

 

[OxBloodOiOiOi]

Chrt, I think the problem is in the OP it doesnt come off sounding like he was saying "Well...why do YOU want them?", but rather more of "Oh, lot of Mil and LE buy those." More of a product endorsement to me it seems than a attempt to dissuade you from buying. That might be why you're getting some of the responses you are.

noo3k has it right. In the OP it says "We mainly sell these to LE and military." If you had said that he said "Pfffftt. These are only for LE and military. You don't need these then my other post probably wouldn't have happen. You just sounded very judgemental.

 

[mortablunt]

I have cowboy boots....putting on my flame suit right now.

I have Swiss M83 camouflage field pants, a Czech field jacket from 1966, and a boonie hat. Bring on the http napalm!

 

[Kiln]

noo3k has it right. In the OP it says "We mainly sell these to LE and military." If you had said that he said "Pfffftt. These are only for LE and military. You don't need these then my other post probably wouldn't have happen. You just sounded very judgemental.

Agreed.

 

[BSA1]

We were talking pants pocket. I did mention this was for summer time use. Don't usually wear a winter coat in the Kansas summer.

Well you would certainly wonder why a leo would carry in his front pant pocket. But since you are from Kansas maybe he is protecting himself from Munchkins.

Or maybe as a last ditch weapon if he is laying on his back getting the stuffings beat and kicked out of him by a larger attacker or group of attackers. The options boil down to a little skin burn and living or a nice cop funeral. (A lot of Smallville Kansas towns have rough bars).

Most "coppers" I know who work traffic wear uniforms with a pistol holster on their belt, and short coats in the winter giving them access to their gun on their belt.

I think I failed to make my point about tactics. I was heavily influenced by writers like Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton and incidents like the Newhall Massacre and the Onion Field.

When I made a car stop in the winter I carried my flashlight in my left hand and my right hand was inside my right front coat pocket gripping my little J frame revolver. In this situation the attacker (occupants) have the advantage. If they tried to shoot me I already had my gun in my hand ready to go. I would still be behind the curve (except in movies you cannot beat a faster draw) it might give me enough of edge to survive. If the occupants were just regular citizens I would simply withdraw my hand and conduct business as usual with out any concerns.

Public relations generally will not support a leo that approachs every car stop with his hand on his duty gun. But someone can't complain about what they never see. I hope this better clarifies why I think pocket carry for a snubbie is a option that should not be ruled out.

Oh then there was my second bug I carried in my right back pocket...a High Standard 22 Magnum derringer. Thank goodness I never had to use that thing!

 

[Larry E]

About a year ago I was in a local store looking at handloading bullets when one of the gun department guys and a customer came back near me and the store guy told the customer that if the box said that the bullets require a 9" twist that the bullets rotated 9 times in the gun's bore. Since his rifle had a 14" twist it'd work fine with those bullets. I nearly spoke up, but figured that neither of them were bright enough to understand rifling twist or had never looked down a barrel at the rifling.

Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and irritates the pig

 

[chrt396]

I have cowboy boots....putting on my flame suit right now.

I like cowboy boots. You're OK in my book!!

 

[chrt396]

As wordy as I can be...I guess I didn't explain it well. What I meant in more direct terms is that he kinda made me feel as if I was not worthy to wear the boots for I was not LE or Military. That offended me..and actually p--ss-ed me off! I just like the way they looked. I wanted them for those cold 50 degree days in Florida!! You would have thought that I asked to buy a shirt with POLICE printed on front! THATS what I was attempting to communicate. Oh well..I tried!

 

[N003k]

No biggy Chrt, was just trying to explain why some of the responses were what they were. Given what ya said now, your response makes much more sense.

 

[Soldier415]

General Rule: Two worst places to get your gun law info are gun store employees and police officers.

 

[Bonesinium]

To be honest, almost everything that the OP said, could be said about

clothing store employees and clothes
electronic store employees and electronics
jewelry store employees and jewelry
furniture store employees and furniture

The list goes on. This is not exclusive to the firearm world. There are lots of ignorant people, know it alls, people who genuinely believe what they are saying even though they are dead wrong, people who lie through their teeth etc, out there.

Now when you run into someone who is just lying to make a sale and you know it, calling them out is reasonable. However when that isn't the case, maybe they actually think they are right or being helpful, then there is no reason why you can't politely correct them. And lastly, you shouldn't always be so judgmental. If someone is wearing 'tactical' clothing, yet doesn't have a 'tactical' job, so what? It is a style. If they want to wear it, why do you care? Some people like the skater look, and aren't skaters. Some people dress preppy, yet don't go to prep school. If that is what they like, it isn't my business to call them out or make fun of them. Of course there is a difference between dressing a certain way out of preference, and acting like someone who you are not.

 

[chrt396]

To be honest, almost everything that the OP said, could be said about

clothing store employees and clothes
electronic store employees and electronics
jewelry store employees and jewelry
furniture store employees and furniture

The list goes on. This is not exclusive to the firearm world. There are lots of ignorant people, know it alls, people who genuinely believe what they are saying even though they are dead wrong, people who lie through their teeth etc, out there.

Now when you run into someone who is just lying to make a sale and you know it, calling them out is reasonable. However when that isn't the case, maybe they actually think they are right or being helpful, then there is no reason why you can't politely correct them. And lastly, you shouldn't always be so judgmental. If someone is wearing 'tactical' clothing, yet doesn't have a 'tactical' job, so what? It is a style. If they want to wear it, why do you care? Some people like the skater look, and aren't skaters. Some people dress preppy, yet don't go to prep school. If that is what they like, it isn't my business to call them out or make fun of them. Of course there is a difference between dressing a certain way out of preference, and acting like someone who you are not.

The whole concept of this post is to state...don't BS people. If you don't know something...admit it. I have been successful in my job where there are tons of BS artists by staying true to a different image. Also..in the firearms industry,,,remember this. Everyone starts out with a different motivation to get in to the shooting sports. I just like to try and get better and better every time I shoot. I love hearing the loud noise of a big caliber rifle or seeing the bullseye disappear each and every time I pull the trigger. THAT is my love for the sport. I have met many great men and women in this fantastic industry. Everyone gets into it for their own reasons. It cannot be categorized for only the tactical segment. I guess..as I age gracefully, I have less and less tolerance for butt heads and also as I grow older...I don't lack confidence in telling them so.

 

[we are not amused]

As wordy as I can be...I guess I didn't explain it well. What I meant in more direct terms is that he kinda made me feel as if I was not worthy to wear the boots for I was not LE or Military. That offended me..and actually p--ss-ed me off! I just like the way they looked. I wanted them for those cold 50 degree days in Florida!! You would have thought that I asked to buy a shirt with POLICE printed on front! THATS what I was attempting to communicate. Oh well..I tried!

One thing I have noticed on this forum, no matter what you say, some one will take issue with it.

 

[chrt396]

One thing I have noticed on this forum, no matter what you say, some one will take issue with it.

Boy...you ain't kidding!! Go read my 1911 Kaboom thread. I got flamed big time! I was looking for advice and got ripped!! Thankfully, there were enough gentlemen present to make it productive.

 

[7thCavScout]

#1 on the Tactical Tom brand of gunshop employees.....I still vividly remember a (self described) Army Ranger School grad who got a blank look on his face when I asked if he had been a 11B10,a 19D10, or some other MOS before he hit the RIP.course.....could not tell me what he thought of the Darby Queen either....and yes,he had on more 511, and Blackhawk gear/clothing then I saw in a catalog....

You should see the reaction I get when I tell them, "I'm tabbed too! What was your Class Number?". I usually get, "Oh that was a long time ago, I can't remember." Trust me when I say some things you NEVER forget, RS is one those things.

 

[kurt1305]

Half of the people in the world are below the median in intelligence. More than half are of below average intelligence. Once you realize this fact, the world (and gun stores) makes a lot more sense.

 

[Deanimator]

F. Why is it..that 85% of the guys that work in gun stores, wearing tactical pants, boots, shirts..and don't smile..and act like a bad ass cop.

There used to be a gun store on the square in Milan, Ohio and those guys there WERE cops. I was in there one day and one of them was running his mouth about how private sales should be BANNED and ALL gun sales should have to go through a gun store. I never bought another thing there and told all of my gun buying friends. The store went out of business not too much later.