Gun dealers gone bad

[P5 Guy]

The Gun Store

I also shop in Pinellas, or used to.
Two stories from a major sporting goods store. I wanted a scope changed and bore sighted. Dropped off the rifle and was told to stop by the next week to pick it up. I went as instructed and got my rifle, shouldered it at a trophy on the far wall and the horizontal cross hair was canted a few degrees off? Asked the counter guy what's up with that. He goes to get the gun plumber that did the switch and the Smithy says he doesn't like swapping scope without the customer being there, okay. Can you correct the scope and recheck the sight in? And I ask why would someone want the horizon canted? After his explanation I knew I should have done the swap myself.
At the same store a couple years later I over heard a salesman trying to convince a female customer to buy one of those tiny rimfire revolvers for home defense. That was my last visit there.
At a different shop I asked about 3 inch SP101s and was told they are no good for CCW. I never said a thing about carrying, well he didn't have them and made no offer to order one for me. Just turned and continued his chat with the beady eyed stool sitter.
The other side of the bay had a real winner. I was asking about a pistol I had an interest in and was told they were no good. He then proceeds to pull his gun on me pointing in it my face and says looking down the barrel will stop attackers without firing a shot. It also stopped this customer from ever buying a thing in his store.
I later heard he was good for telling people that pistols only come with one magazine and if you want another that'll be extra?

 

[CelticArmory]

Salesmen lie. Regardless of whether they're selling guns, cars, vacuum cleaners or snake oil, they all lie. Some more than others. Always tell the customer what they want to hear if you want to make the sale.

I don't generally shop in gun stores anymore, since I have my own licensing. Hopefully soon I'll graduate from just being a gunsmith to a gun store owner. I can say one thing about this comment. Don't take that giant generalization brush and sweep every salesperson with it. Even when I worked retail in computers I never lied to make a sale. That's something that almost got me fired more than once because I refused to sell crap to my customers. And if I didn't know the answer to a question, I would look it up, not make it up. I'm still the same way. I believe in treating customers with respect and you can't respect someone if you BS them. I have been known to make mistakes and I always offer to correct my mistakes. Anytime I do work for someone I make sure to tell them that if they aren't satisfied with the job, bring it back and I'll make it right. But don't just say EVERY salesperson is a liar and a cheat, cause that just aint true.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

But I am surprised that a NH Sheriff's dept wouldn't issue you a permit. I got my NH Non-Res permit when I was 19!

Its actually a city department and its a Liberal Chief that has been pulling all kinds of crap through the years regarding the permits. State laws have been put in place because of this one specific Chief. If I lived the the city right next to mine, I could have my permit already. That Chief said that he would issue a permit to those under 21. I plan on moving there when I first move out with getting my permit in mind.

 

[8654Maine]

Hijack:

Gripper wrote: "#1 on the Tactical Tom brand of gunshop employees.....I still vividly remember a (self described) Army Ranger School grad who got a blank look on his face when I asked if he had been a 11B10,a 19D10, or some other MOS before he hit the RIP.course.....could not tell me what he thought of the Darby Queen either....and yes,he had on more 511, and Blackhawk gear/clothing then I saw in a catalog...."

7thCavScout wrote: "You should see the reaction I get when I tell them, "I'm tabbed too! What was your Class Number?". I usually get, "Oh that was a long time ago, I can't remember." Trust me when I say some things you NEVER forget, RS is one those things."

I got asked about 11B or RIP during Class 12-89. I told 'em I don't know what that crap is. I'm a Marine. See, my cover's different. You're either ready or not. You make it or don't.

Back on track: I usually take whatever I hear at the LGS w/ a little grain of salt. Good thing my LGS usually are good folks.

 

[davers]

Hey gripper!!

11C1P!! Went through Basic, AIT, Airborne School and RIP in 1986. Dropped out of RIP my last week, but kept my Airborne status and was sent to Vicenza Italy.. Charlie Co, 3/325 ABCT... We called guys like that PX Rangers...

Our Ranger instructors looked like they ate nails for breakfast and concrete for lunch! They were some HARD individuals!

#1 on the Tactical Tom brand of gunshop employees.....I still vividly remember a (self described) Army Ranger School grad who got a blank look on his face when I asked if he had been a 11B10,a 19D10, or some other MOS before he hit the RIP.course.....could not tell me what he thought of the Darby Queen either....and yes,he had on more 511, and Blackhawk gear/clothing then I saw in a catalog....

 

[Leathermarshmallow]

Yeah...I was top secret black ops in 'Nam....my code name was Agent Orange

 

[youngda9]

One thing I have noticed on this forum, no matter what you say, some one will take issue with it.

This statement is false.

 

[bigfische]

Well IMHO that young cop knows more than the old over the hill one. During my copper days I carried a J frame S&W in the right pocket of my winter coat. When I did a car stop at night I would hold my flashlight with my left hand and have my right hand inside my right coat pocket gripping my snubbie. If things went south my plan was to shoot without taking the gun out of my pocket. On the other hand I soon as I identified the occupants were not a threat I simply removed my hand and completed business as usual.

With a semiauto in my pocket I knew I could only fire one round before the gun would catch on material and jam.

With the snubbie I could count on all five rounds firing. The muzzle flash and flash from b/c gap would result in the pocket being shredded and possibily catching fire but I could always buy a new coat.

But you never actually did it that way. You just asumed it would work. It was still just an untested theory. Not necessarily saying it wouldnt work, but the premise that just because you had the same plan doesnt mean it would work. Unless of course you tried it out and shot up a bunch of perfectly good jacket pockets, you dont KNOW how well it would have worked or what the repercussions of it would have been.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

I demurred, explaining I was more comfortable with a semi-auto pistol rather than a wheelgun, and he started going on about how a revolver was the perfect self defense gun, and that it could even be shot with the gun in the pocket

It takes balls to try that. Then no balls at all.

 

[BSA1]

But you never actually did it that way. You just asumed it would work. It was still just an untested theory. Not necessarily saying it wouldnt work, but the premise that just because you had the same plan doesnt mean it would work. Unless of course you tried it out and shot up a bunch of perfectly good jacket pockets, you dont KNOW how well it would have worked or what the repercussions of it would have been

Actually we did do some actual testing and as did some of the gun writers of the period.

The big problem is the chance of the hammer snagging on the inside of the pocket. Very bad. This also applied to carrying in a ankle holster and having the hammer snag on the sock.

The way we solved that problem was to grind the hammer spur off.

Today that problem is nicely solved with the S&W Model 442.

My bullet proof vest was a Safariland rated to stop 44 Magnums. I never shot myself to make sure it would actually work. I was willing to believe the testing of Richard Davis and the manufacturer.

BUT if you like send me one of coats and I will test not one but BOTH of the pockets.

 

[ShawnC]

I had a gun store refuse to sell me a gun because I was in the military and they said they needed a letter from my base commander. When I explained that I don't live on base and do not need permission to from anyone to purchase a firearm, they disagreed. One guy followed me out to my car, then asked me to "just get the letter and we can sell to you". I politely declined and drove an hour and a half away to purchase my gun at another store. Never bought anything from that store ever again.

 

[Firemedic56]

Was looking for an extra mag for my P11 and when I asked owner they said they didn't stock anything kel tec because they were unreliable, then proceeded to try to sell me on a .22 Sig.. Yeah I'll spend my money elsewhere. Worst part...Kel tec is literally 30 mins down the road from this gs.

 

[trickyric]

All I can say is WOW!
I guess I am very lucky. I have been a gun owner for about a year now and I am one of those obsessive people who has to learn as much as he can as fast as he can so I signed up for training with Tactical Firearms academy, took private instruction and went to every gun show and store within 50 miles of my home. Did I mention I live in South Florida? Anyway every store I have been in and that is a lot, has had very educated and helpful staff as well as fair pricing. I now have 7 pistols and an KAC SR-15 as well as just having become a certified Armorer for Glock.(took the class last Tuesday with the Palm beach gardens PD). I am not a LEO or ex-Military but every person I have interacted with in the firearms world has been very kind and helpful. I have been invited and visited the Ghost company and the Grunt Gear production room and generally feel like the industry is one of the most honorable I have experienced.
I guess I have just been very lucky!

 

[Bubbles]

It's an industry like any other - there are many wonderful folks, a few unethical folks, and a very few where it's only a matter of time before they end up behind bars.

 

[jpwilly]

When I go into a shop I don't expect the person accross the counter to have all the same knowledge or experiances I have had and appreciate when they can share theirs with me. I think the best way to weed out fakers is to play dumb and be modest. \

Here's a story:
At a gun show here in Phoenix there was a seller telling everyone interested in his K98 that it was a "war bringback". I took a quick look and the CIA serial number quickly despelled that myth. He knew it was a con 1/2 hour later he was still selling that "war bringback" for $800...I hope nobody bit on that.

 

[sig220mw]

Wow after reading a bunch of these posts, I feel really lucky.

I go to a shop in Longview, Texas called the Gun Doctor and it is populated mostly but not completely with a bunch of old farts like myself.

They are knowledgeable and will sit down and shoot the bull with you and talk about reloading and shooting in general and give you tips from their experience. They will also tell about the screw ups they have made which is really instructive. Their other customers are often helpful too. In addition, after writing my first check there they have never again asked for ID when I wrote another.

They also have a very good gunsmith.

I have also sent my wife there when I couldn't go while at work and she has always commented about their politeness and helpfulness.

 

[1911 guy]

The more I read of some peoples' experiences in gun shops, the more i appreciate my local shop. Stockers, in Champion, Ohio, if anybody is interested. Very good selection (at least in my opinion) and staffed with guys who aren't afraid to let the words "I don't know, let me go ask the guy who does" come from their lips.

True story about how much I trust these guys. I thoroughly explained handgun fit to my wife. She shot several types, calibers and sizes of handguns. When it came time to buy one of her own, we went to stockers. I stayed in the parking lot smoking cigarettes, she came out with a Sig she still likes eight or ten years later.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I've been to a few shops, most have the attitude, know what you want, they haven't tried to steer anybody into a specific gun as being the 'best for that'
I did hear one shop tell a lady not to buy a .380 cobra, because for that price, she could buy a hi point, and for just a bit more, there are a number of used guns that would probably be more reliable.

My favorite LGS has a museum display, literally, they had to bet a FFL3 and a separate book the last time an ATF inspector came by. I had some questions about a gun, the next thing I knew I had 4 reference book on the counter with half the shop pouring over the history of an esoteric pocket pistol from pre WWI Europe. They also are happy to tell you they have NO clue.

 

[dogtown tom]

Shadow 7D ....My favorite LGS has a museum display, literally, they had to bet a FFL3 and a separate book the last time an ATF inspector came by...

ATF doesn't require an 01FFL to get an 03FFL to display guns.......something is missing from this story.

 

[Shadow 7D]

SEPARATE BOOKS
and an anal retentive inspector
what it is, is that the OWNER (business FFL) has his 'personal' collection displayed, they are not for sale, and the inspector basically threw a major fit as 1) they were NOT for sale, yet 2) carried on the shops book IAW what the owner understood of the law.

it may not be that he had to get another license he may have just had to record them like a FFL3, basically the dude was pissed that the non sale pieces weren't carried on their own book. He may not have been right, but through inspection, with each and EVERY SN check, paperwork from 10 years ago....

 

[Birch Knoll]

More likely they were (a) not for sale, and (b) *NOT* in the dealer's A&D book. This would cause an ATF IOI to undergo a small meltdown, and rightfully so. The proper thing to do in that case is to either record them in the book, or tag them as "personal firearm, not for sale".

There is no advantage whatsoever to having a separate 03 FFL for the display guns. He could have just entered them in his 01 FFL A&D book and been done with it. He could have set aside a separate book just for the display pieces, if he wished.

It's likely to be even more confusing the next time ATF drops by, now that he has firearms belonging to two different FFLs on premises.

 

[jobu07]

You should see the reaction I get when I tell them, "I'm tabbed too! What was your Class Number?". I usually get, "Oh that was a long time ago, I can't remember." Trust me when I say some things you NEVER forget, RS is one those things.

I can't remember any of my class numbers and I went through less than 10 years ago. The only way I can tell you what they are is if I look at the class photos. I get the class number and year number backwards everytime, bells been rung one too many times.

On the topic of bad info or bad attitudes - just take what you hear with a grain of salt and remember that you're in the dealer's shop. We can always take our business elsewhere. I generally don't speak up unless someone is been taken advantage of by a dealer. And even then, it's polite to try to mention it in private.

 

[flatlander937]

Why is it..that 85% of the guys that work in gun stores, wearing tactical pants, boots, shirts..and don't smile..and act like a bad ass cop.

Ha that description made me laugh.


I'm relatively new to firearms, and am fortunate that I haven't had any downright lies told to me by my local FFL(Vandalia Range and Armory in Vandalia, OH). I think 90% of the people who work there are former military/police, and everyone is super friendly and knowledgeable from what I've experienced... a few are opinionated and felt that I could have gotten a better 1911 if I had gone Springfield instead of my Colt Combat Commander, but the guy conceded that "it's a Colt... and it will go bang every time you pull the trigger" which is exactly what I need.


Everyone there is great to talk to as well, and most seem to appreciate the differences in each and every firearm they have for sale and they realize that what's right for one person isn't necessarily right for another. In fact I was told my 3 or 4 of their employees that I was doing the right thing in renting anything and everything available to "rent" for the range before actually buying a single gun. I shot about 10 different pistols over the course of 3 weekends to figure out exactly what I could shoot well and feel comfortable with and confident in.


One time when we went shooting, the lanes were empty enough that my wife got some free range lessons/tips from Steve, who was the range officer that day. He really helped to show my wife that gun owners are not a bunch of unsafe crazy people, and she had a lot of fun. Introducing my wife to guns was definitely a hurdle because she was TERRIFIED of them, but the professionalism of the VRA employees really impressed her and ultimately allowed me to buy my Colt


Hopefully not too far off topic... but the thread was quite entertaining, albeit in some cases at the expense of others... some of those experiences are what I was afraid I might encounter being new and all before I had gone for the first time.

 

[m1911.10mm]

The only thing I can really relate to is this business about there being an extra person who is always hanging out at the store. You can't really tell whether they work there or not. Around here, it's usually an old man.

If a store employee says he has never heard of a particular gun scrubber damaging polymer - well, that's always possible.

Even in this one thread, I can see at least one example of how gun store people can not please everyone. One poster observes that an employee made no offer to order an SP101, I think it was. Granted, there was more to the post, but I get irritated when a place of business does offer to order something for me. When they offer to order it for me, I can't help but think "Hell, I can order it for me.".

I've been living here in Victoria TX for just about four years. The people here are not like any place I've ever been. I suppose I occasionally think of them as European hillbillies, put for the most part I've learned not to judge people as a result of living here.

For the most part, we don't know what's in someone else's head. I guess I couldn't care less how someone else dresses, and I guess I've gotten to an age where I don't make assumptions about what someone else is trying to be.

There are plenty of folks who work in grocery stores. I can respect anyone who works, no matter where it is or what they do.

It's a lot happier life when you get to the point where you don't concern yourself with that which doesn't cost you money or time.

.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Boy I thank the Good Lord every Day for the Shop I got too. Family ran and good honest hardworking community members. I feel for you; I have a 2 visit rule, if my idiot alarm goes off or I get bad service. Then I just scratch them off my list and never go back.