trackskippy
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I dont think its a viable tactic at all. 
Unless maybe youre a sniper with a 50 and no one knows youre there. Maybe.
Unless maybe youre a sniper with a 50 and no one knows youre there. Maybe.
Gun Fighting Revolver
- Thread starter Styx
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CaptHank
Member
For me, it would be my Dan Wesson 741 8" barrel.
It is evident from some of the responses, many of you have never carried a revolver in harms way, i.e. against people who want to do you harm. I did as a young deputy sheriff. When the brown stinky stuff hits the air circulation device, waiting for you 500 Mag or your long barreled hunting revolver to come down out of recoil will leave stains on your Jockey shorts.
The best gun in a fight is the one you have with you. If you're a civilian and you know you are going into a fight, do something else that day. If you're a commissioned officer and have to go, take a shotgun if you've trained with it. If you haven't trained properly (many cops haven't) pray a lot!
Dave
The best gun in a fight is the one you have with you. If you're a civilian and you know you are going into a fight, do something else that day. If you're a commissioned officer and have to go, take a shotgun if you've trained with it. If you haven't trained properly (many cops haven't) pray a lot!
Dave
UncleEd
Member
Dave T,
I think you may be sliding over the premise
contained in the OP's description. I think
he readily admitted it was only a "what if"
and the use of what kind of revolver.
Hence we've had postings rooted in some
sort of very limited reality and also fantasy.
From the get-go your suggestion of a shotgun
was a no-no. The OP also put no-noes on auto
pistols and rifles.
I think you may be sliding over the premise
contained in the OP's description. I think
he readily admitted it was only a "what if"
and the use of what kind of revolver.
Hence we've had postings rooted in some
sort of very limited reality and also fantasy.
From the get-go your suggestion of a shotgun
was a no-no. The OP also put no-noes on auto
pistols and rifles.
westernrover
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- May 4, 2018
- Messages
- 1,613
Another vote here for moon-clips over speedloaders, loose rounds or other devices. Although reloading is way at the bottom of my list of priorities in a fight as a civilian, I like moon-clips not just for training but for carry also. The case against moon-clips, bent and not allowing the cylinder to close is a "what-if" and I've already stated that I've learned to dismiss "what-ifs" in favor of what actually works best. This principle is relevant beyond reloads. There's nothing wrong with thinking about contingencies and it's foolish not to consider them. I think about them, and then I choose not to compromise for their sake. I can adapt in the moment if I have to, so I'd rather not adapt ahead of time when it costs me to accomodate a "what if" that I'm not assured will happen. In other words "what if not?"
I own 60 moon clips and I've never had one fail. I have bent two or three stepping on them on the ground, but they were easy to repair by flattening again. I carry at least two in my pocket (third one in the revolver) every day for years and they've never been damaged. I acknowledge there are "what ifs" that apply to moon clips.
Moon clips help with ejection as well as insertion, but the way they help is all-or-none. You never get that one case that fails to fall and blocks the incoming. On the other hand, if you get a case stuck hard, they may all fail to eject. You can't pick individuals out. If you cut a head off, the clip will eject but the stuck case won't let another full clip be inserted. You'll have to use the clip like a stripper clip, insert two cartridges and tear the clip off them and repeat so long as you have time.
Speedloaders have what-if's too. Ejecting loose rounds, you can have one stick and need to be cleared before you can recharge. Handling the speedloader, you can dump them before they reach the cylinder. Some of them dump themselves and others just dump because you hit the release at the wrong time. Speedloaders can also fail to release, or they can release and get caught in the cylinder window and take time to clear. I don't think these are good justifications not to carry speedloaders, but someone who carries them should be aware.
Similarly, the what-if's concerning moon-clips aren't fatal. Be aware of possible failure modes and know how to deal with them. Carry what fights best. I want to win and I plan for success. Errors are possible, but I'm not going to give up my advantage to avoid a possible error. I'd rather deal with the error if and only if it happens.
I own 60 moon clips and I've never had one fail. I have bent two or three stepping on them on the ground, but they were easy to repair by flattening again. I carry at least two in my pocket (third one in the revolver) every day for years and they've never been damaged. I acknowledge there are "what ifs" that apply to moon clips.
Moon clips help with ejection as well as insertion, but the way they help is all-or-none. You never get that one case that fails to fall and blocks the incoming. On the other hand, if you get a case stuck hard, they may all fail to eject. You can't pick individuals out. If you cut a head off, the clip will eject but the stuck case won't let another full clip be inserted. You'll have to use the clip like a stripper clip, insert two cartridges and tear the clip off them and repeat so long as you have time.
Speedloaders have what-if's too. Ejecting loose rounds, you can have one stick and need to be cleared before you can recharge. Handling the speedloader, you can dump them before they reach the cylinder. Some of them dump themselves and others just dump because you hit the release at the wrong time. Speedloaders can also fail to release, or they can release and get caught in the cylinder window and take time to clear. I don't think these are good justifications not to carry speedloaders, but someone who carries them should be aware.
Similarly, the what-if's concerning moon-clips aren't fatal. Be aware of possible failure modes and know how to deal with them. Carry what fights best. I want to win and I plan for success. Errors are possible, but I'm not going to give up my advantage to avoid a possible error. I'd rather deal with the error if and only if it happens.
mcb,
You make a great point about what gear to wear to a gunfight. I have not competed in several decades. I merely posted what is my normal holster. If I were to give it some thought, something like my old competition rig in PPC with holders for a LOT of moon clips would certainly be considered!
Regarding the 627 vs 625, I only own revolvers for the ACP round. The small bore failed me so I left it behin$.
Kevin
I do believe you have watched Quigley too often. Gunfights are sudden and quick. Unless you intend to take on the Symbionese Liberation Army by yourself…
Kevin
either one of these
Not a lot of difference in recoil with 850 fps loads. Neither have brutal recoil or muzzle blast. I prefer bigger bullets. When I purchased the 45 LC, at the same time at the store were S&W Thunder Ranch 44 Specials. I wish I had spent the cash for both, but I already had a four inch 44 Special, so I purchased the four inch 45LC. A Thunder Ranch Special had fixed sights, and in terms of a self defense pistol, a big bore, fixed sight revolver is about as simple as it gets.
I don't know if S&W issued a modern four inch 45 LC with fixed sights, but that would be a great pistol.
Not a lot of difference in recoil with 850 fps loads. Neither have brutal recoil or muzzle blast. I prefer bigger bullets. When I purchased the 45 LC, at the same time at the store were S&W Thunder Ranch 44 Specials. I wish I had spent the cash for both, but I already had a four inch 44 Special, so I purchased the four inch 45LC. A Thunder Ranch Special had fixed sights, and in terms of a self defense pistol, a big bore, fixed sight revolver is about as simple as it gets.
I don't know if S&W issued a modern four inch 45 LC with fixed sights, but that would be a great pistol.
My first paragraph was meant to address some of the responses to the OP. The second paragraph was my personal take on treating the serious subject of a deadly force encounter as fantasy as opposed to reality.
I seem to have offended you in some fashion, although I'm not sure I see your problem with what I posted. Free exchange of ideas and opinions may not be what it was.
Dave
UncleEd
Member
Dave T,
I didn't have any problem with what
you actually wrote. Just that this
thread has/had passed into fantasy
on several occasions. Even a
"serious subject" can slip into
absurdity and become more fun
than frown.
I didn't have any problem with what
you actually wrote. Just that this
thread has/had passed into fantasy
on several occasions. Even a
"serious subject" can slip into
absurdity and become more fun
than frown.
bdickens
Member
If it had to be a revolver, it would be a solid 4" or so .357 Magnum loaded with a good .38SPL +P round.
This because I am 100% familiar with it. Great tuned action and trigger, it's totally reliable, regulated POI=POA shooting full house 158 grain flat nose hard cast jacketed .357. That said, if I knew for an absolute fact I was going to be in a gunfight, I'd go someplace else.
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If I knew I would get into a gun fight somewhere in the future, I would go someplace else!
If I had to carry a revolver, it would be either a mid size .38 Special or .357 magnum. I really like my S&W model 15 .38 Special revolver with a 4 inch barrel and HOGUE grips. I keep it as a back up house gun and a range gun. The one proviso is that I get to use premium ammo like FEDERAL HST jhp or DOUBLE TAP 110 grain jhp. This gun is just the right size and weight (just over 2 pounds) for me to carry concealed in a strong side pancake holster or scabard.
On the other hand, if I could not get the above ammo, I would probably go with my RUGER Security Six with a 4 inch barrel and PACHMAYR Gripper grips. I can safely shoot very hot .38 Special ammo like the DOUBLE TAP 125 grain jhp +P ammo or standard .357 magnum 110 grain and 125 grain jhp and have effectiveness similar or better than a standard +P .38 Special round using a premium bullet.
Like the S&W, the blue steel RUGER has a wonderfully smooth double action and is still light enough and sized right for concealed carry. I do not like barrels shorter that 4 inches on a defense revolver and I think you are giving up too much in velocity, sight radius and balance of the gun. High performance ammo can be harder to shoot and it usually gets worse when you shorten the barrel.
I have a RUGER SPEED SIX which shoots really well and has a very good trigger and is a little more concealable than the 4 inch guns, but I am giving up velocity and so making my ammo less effective. I am also getting more flash and muzzle blast.
The S&W L-frame 686 and RUGER GP-100 revolvers, if they have a smooth action (not always guaranteed) would be really great too shoot in a gunfight, but are just too heavy to be carried comfortably all day long. I know that because I carried a S&W 681 for several years when I started in law enforcement. Great gun, but heavy.
I had the trigger tuned, added HOGUE grips and had it MAGNA PORTED. A terrific fighting gun.
I have several big bore .44 and .45 revolvers, but they are bulkier, heavier and not really much more effective, maybe even less effective if you are using mild recoiling ammo like SILVERTIPS or GOLD DOTS. Big bore magnums are not even considered in this. TOO MUCH BLAST, NOISE and RECOIL result in a less effective ammo/gun combination.
Just my opinion and experience,
Jim
If I had to carry a revolver, it would be either a mid size .38 Special or .357 magnum. I really like my S&W model 15 .38 Special revolver with a 4 inch barrel and HOGUE grips. I keep it as a back up house gun and a range gun. The one proviso is that I get to use premium ammo like FEDERAL HST jhp or DOUBLE TAP 110 grain jhp. This gun is just the right size and weight (just over 2 pounds) for me to carry concealed in a strong side pancake holster or scabard.
On the other hand, if I could not get the above ammo, I would probably go with my RUGER Security Six with a 4 inch barrel and PACHMAYR Gripper grips. I can safely shoot very hot .38 Special ammo like the DOUBLE TAP 125 grain jhp +P ammo or standard .357 magnum 110 grain and 125 grain jhp and have effectiveness similar or better than a standard +P .38 Special round using a premium bullet.
Like the S&W, the blue steel RUGER has a wonderfully smooth double action and is still light enough and sized right for concealed carry. I do not like barrels shorter that 4 inches on a defense revolver and I think you are giving up too much in velocity, sight radius and balance of the gun. High performance ammo can be harder to shoot and it usually gets worse when you shorten the barrel.
I have a RUGER SPEED SIX which shoots really well and has a very good trigger and is a little more concealable than the 4 inch guns, but I am giving up velocity and so making my ammo less effective. I am also getting more flash and muzzle blast.
The S&W L-frame 686 and RUGER GP-100 revolvers, if they have a smooth action (not always guaranteed) would be really great too shoot in a gunfight, but are just too heavy to be carried comfortably all day long. I know that because I carried a S&W 681 for several years when I started in law enforcement. Great gun, but heavy.
I had the trigger tuned, added HOGUE grips and had it MAGNA PORTED. A terrific fighting gun.
I have several big bore .44 and .45 revolvers, but they are bulkier, heavier and not really much more effective, maybe even less effective if you are using mild recoiling ammo like SILVERTIPS or GOLD DOTS. Big bore magnums are not even considered in this. TOO MUCH BLAST, NOISE and RECOIL result in a less effective ammo/gun combination.
Just my opinion and experience,
Jim
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Indeed, if I knew that there was going to be a gunfight, I would rather be somewhere else. That is good strategy, and a best practice. But, perhaps the tactical problem is about to happen, or is happening, at a place where there are people who are precious to me, and it is not practicable to get them out of there.
Yes, you did write much more, and wrote very well,
but you were not the only one to mention the strategy of being somewhere else, so, my post was intended to be conceptual, and for the general membership, rather than directed at you, specifically. 38riverrat
Member
Kimber 3" DASA K6S. Best DA revolver I have used. Loaded with 6 rounds of Federal HST micro 130g plus pee. Carried in a Lobo Gun Leather Original Pancake holster.
73,
Rick
73,
Rick
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