Gun shows and Nazi paraphernalia

[Rockrivr1]

I attended the Concord, NH gun show last weekend. It was a good day and the arena the gun show was at was filled to capacity. As I was entering the arena with my fiance a younger couple was leaving. The girlfriend/wife seemed to be visably upset and at first I thought they were just having a fight. As they both passed me I overheard her say how discusting it was for these vendors to sell Nazi paraphernalia so openly seeing what they stand for and did. As she was just about out of earshot she asked why someone doesn't do something about it right in front of the police officer standing guard at the door.

I go to many gun shows and to be honest I never really pay much attention to these vendors or their wares that they are selling. But because this lady had mentioned it I started to count how many vendors were selling this stuff. By the time I left I had counted 21 different vendors.

I started to think at that time that we as gun owners want to be shown as normal everyday warm blooded Americans, who strongly believe in our 2nd Amendment rights. As I was looking at all the Nazi stuff for sale, I was wondering how this effects the way the antis think of us as gun owners. As I thought more on it, I couldn't see how it has any positive effect on our image. I would bet that the couple that left were new to the gun world or were just interested in finding out what we are about. I'm thinking they left with a completely wrong idea.

What do you think?

 

[jobu07]

I think they are just catering on the novelty factor that you can buy things that once belonged to the enemies of america. Able to buy your own museumesque pieces of history maybe? I guess it goes for the same reasons that those of us who collect old war rifles want to have a genuine german mauser in our collections. Eh. Just my .02

 

[GreenFurniture]

I don't know. I guess there are a few vendors today that sell legitimate Nazi items for collectors of WWI and WWII memorabilia. I don't understand, however, why anyone would be selling newly minted Nazi crap. An example, at a gunshow in town last year I saw a vendor who was selling nothing my Nazi stuff and large burlap "pot" bags. Blew my mind. I walked a little closer and noticed that the Nazi flags were in mylar bags with "Made In China" on them. Gave me a laugh.

 

[Control Group]

I think that you may be right about their impression, but I also think that if we worry too much about the impression we make, we're going to compromise away everything that makes the gun culture interesting. Part of that culture is recognizing the value of WWII-era relics, from both sides of the war.

I'm no gun show expert, but when I've gone to a gun show, the Nazi paraphernalia I've seen has been actual Nazi paraphernalia - as in, manufactured for use by Nazis in the war, or replicas thereof. It has historical value and collectible value, just like GI equipment from WWII does. It is unfortunate if someone comes away from that thinking that gun collectors as a whole are Nazis, but that sort of wrong-headed thinking can't adequately be addressed.

 

[Rebar]

It's called the 1st Amendment. It's not just for things you agree with.

 

[El Tejon]

I am shocked and disgusted by the Nazi and Confederate stuff, but I look at it as an unfortunate consequence of a free society. Besides a lot of guys are just history geeks or young and want "cool stuff" to share with their friends.

 

[rangemasta]

This stuff does have historical value, id love to build up a collection of German WWII gear, uniforms, flags whatever. This stuff is expensive. Its going to be more expensive in 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now

 

[Havegunjoe]

I'm more upset when I see liberals wearing Che Chevera t-shirts.

Like that killer is someone to be proud of. The vendors I see at gun shows here are selling WWll collectables. The Nazi ones are more recognizable than the Japaneese, but no real difference when you think of all the innocents killed by both countires. I have not seen anyone selling new Nazi merchandise. That I would not stand for either but WWll collectables I don't have a problem with.

 

[Crownvicman]

I've never bought Nazi paraphernalia but I do like and collect Soviet Russian relics. It is an interesting piece of history and feels like dancing on a dead enemie's grave.

 

[cuchulainn]

Bear baiting is very rude, El Tejon

 

[crucible]

I'm a military history buff, with a special intereset in WWII combat aviation; as I type this, I have several Michael Howard prints in my office looking at me including autographed Joe Foss, and several Gunther Rall (highest still living ace at 275 kills...later West German Air Force General). I can appreciate and respect history and the courage of men involved in it, and I understand the collectability of it's items, whether one agrees with it or not.

That said. Several months ago, I helped man a gun right's organizations booth at a large gun show here in Viriginia. Next to us was a a dealer that sepcialized in selling WWII artifacts, particularly German and Nazi ones. That's ok and and of itself, but everytime I looked in that general direction (was only two directions to look), I got an original portrait of Hitler that was for sale staring at me. A large one.

I gotta tell ya, it got old. And a bit creepy. And I'd preferred that it have been elsewhere.

But I'm not arguing that it should be banned however. And I don't care one whit about the sensibilities of the anti's or liberals-they can pound sand.

Chris

 

[entropy]

I collect Warsaw Pact items and Mosin and SKS rifles, yet I am not a communist. I have owned Nazi relics in the past, yet was never a nazi.(Biker, yes, Nazi, no.) My Dad owned a samurai sword his uncle took from a dead Japanese NCO, (it was his familiy's blade set in the standard NCO Tsuba, Hamon, and scabbard.), yet I'm pretty sure he holds no big love of Japan. I am disgusted with the guys who have one K98k on their table, and piles of shirts that say stuff like "Mien Erhe heist Treue" with SS runes. The rifle is in their four hundred pound wife's name for legal reasons. And yes, I find the CheGuevara t-shirts as annoying, also.
Perhaps a small amount of self-policing at gunshows wouldn't be a bad thing, but it probably isn't going to happen. If the anti's were smart they'd take a "hidden camera" to a gun show, it'd "scare the straights" , as it were.

 

[Bulldozer]

I hit the Syracuse, NY gunshow this past weekend. There were more vendors of non-firearms c--p than there was anything else.

The most offensive thing going there was the stench of all the guys who had not bathed in weeks (had hoped days, but phew)!

 

[Standing Wolf]

I hardly ever go to gun shows any more: too much worthless junk, very little of which has anything to do with shooting.

If I want genuine wild rice, I'll go to the grocery, thanks all the same.

 

[Derby FALs]

It's amazing what will offend a yankee.

 

[patent]

I am disgusted with the guys who have one K98k on their table, and piles of shirts that say stuff like "Mien Erhe heist Treue" with SS runes. T. . . And yes, I find the CheGuevara t-shirts as annoying, also.​

Gotta agree with that. They can sell that crap if they like, but I tend to avoid tables that have junk like that on them, regardless of what else they have. They have their clientelle, I'm just not a part of it.

patent

 

[GEM]

There are two types of dealers.

One might sell legitimate WWII items. That's ok with me but folks who solely focused on the nazis with an implication that they were great guys are troublesome. It is not hard to figure them out.

Then - there are the guys selling new Nazi stuff and usually have modern Nazi oriented books and literature. They are rather despicable characters.

It is not a matter of being a Yankee or a Southerner. That latter type is not a worthwhile contributor to the RKBA or much of anything.

 

[Derby FALs]

If people weren't buying it they wouldn't be selling it.

 

[bogie]

I don't mind the "collector" tables. In fact, I think the stuff is kinda cool, in the historical sense.

I really, really hate those !@#$%^&*() Illinois Nazis... If I see a "new nazi" table at a gun show, I _will_ go find the person running the overall show, and grouch 'em out. Same with the tables selling klucker crap, the turner diaries crap, etc.

A while back at a local show, some skin-lookin' guy had "his woman" selling shirts, coffee mugs, etc., with pix of nazi/ss officers on 'em... Chatted with the promoter, and then left - dunno if anything happened. My father went to great effort to make sure that those folks weren't allowed to prevail, and it sickens me that some obviously twisted folks idolize them.

 

[ZeroX]

I'm reminded of an episode of King of the Hill where Cotton tried to sell Hitler's canoe to raise money for the VFW.

 

[SmershAgent]

I'm very interested in WW2, and I have a modest collection of items (many of which were from the Third Reich). However, these are a manifestation of my historical interest as opposed to supporting an ideology. As others have pointed out, it's very easy to distinguish the types of vendors that cater to each at shows.

I look forward to browsing the tables where people are selling history books, authentic WW2 items, medals/badges/etc, and weapons. I think it's a nice bonus when you arrive at a show and discover for every 8 or 9 tables of guns, there's 1 full of WW2 artifacts. And as someone else pointed out, how many of us own a firearm used by a Warsaw Pact Army? The fact I like shooting my SKS and CZ-52 doesn't mean I condone despotic Communist governments.

It seems the vendors who have shaved heads, Aryan Nation T-shirts, and white supremacist literature are the ones who contribute to gun owners getting a bad reputation.

That said, if they want to pay for a table and sit behind it, it's their right to be there, just as it is my right to ignore them.

 

[Phil Ca]

I am a member of a German knife forum and recently a new member from Germany posted a Hitler Youth knife photo and offer for sale. The admin ripped him a new one and reminded him of a 1980's law against Nazi regalia. He let him know straight up that there would be no postings of that sort on the forum.

When I used to attend the gun shows before we moved I could not but help noticing the WW2 tables with all sorts of items on them. The true collector stuff is OK but the new ne-nazi stuff does not belong there IMO.

I was stationed in Germany for 30 months in the mid 50's and never saw much in the way of WW2 regalia. In 1999 i visited Munich with my wife and son and went to a surplus store. It was filled mostly with US GI equipment and camping items. In Normandy a smilar store was selling equipment from all participants in D-Day. The prices were totally out of whack and a person would have had to be a tad crazy to buy any of it. I settled for some sand and shells from Utah and Omaha beaches and a replica of the famous, "Clicker" ID device used by the GI's that were dropped in by parachute.

BYW, the church in the square in St. Mere Eglise still has a dummy in a chute on top where an actual soldier was trapped for several hours. In the movie,
"The Longest Day" the part was played by Red Buttons. (search: St. Mere Eglise and Musee Airborne St. Mere Eglise)

 

[GEM]

If people weren't buying it they wouldn't be selling it.

Works for heroin, meth and kiddy porn.

 

[jobu07]

Bulldoozer, I hear ya man! There were some real winners at that 'cuse show. It was interesting, though, there was a few people selling racks full of old war uniforms. Nazi and others as well. It's fun to see old relics though.

Now, as someone said, a large original portrait of hitler. I dunno. Maybe it can be classified as art as it is an original painting. But that is borderline... It's not as much a relic as it is propaganda that belongs in a history museum exhibit of nazi germany. Not hanging on someone's mantle now.

 

[jsalcedo]

If you don't like it don't buy it.

I think thats what happened at the San Antonio gun shows.

There used to be many "colorful characters" at the TWCA shows but now it seems the fringe people don't participate like they did back in the 1980's

I'm not sure if the Neo nazis were run out on a rail or they didn't get enough sales to stay in business.

Last gunshow there was a table selling old helmets and I was tempted by a nazi one with a .30 ventilation hole but $90 was a little steep with no documentation.