Nazi memorabilia at gun shows

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a little hyperbole here

Anyone remember the scene in the back of the military surplus store in Falling Down where the owner held up an empty canister of Zyklon B and said, "This <stuff> was used, man!" I don't want to see the Nazi memorabilia presented that way.
 
There is a big WWII re-enactor community that attends gun shows as well - this may well be the market the memoraibia dealers are seeking - not Nazi sympathizers
 
The Nazi stuff is there, I ignore it but I assume that it helps pay the bills to keep the doors open.

I am actually more offended by the group that shows up at the Portland show that claims EVERYONE has confederate heritage. When I explained to them that I can trace my history directly to Italy 2 generations ago they explained that there was a small contingent of Italian fugitives that helped fight alongside the Confederacy so therefore according to them, I could not be sure.
 
Well, the trouble for me is that most of the "Nazi" stuff you see is reproduction. There is no historical element to it, other than by an approximation of design. I'm really turned off by that kind of stuff. However, true WWII relics don't bother me at all. The Hitler stamps and the Nazi money are intriguing in a historical view. However, I am fascinated by occupation and counter-occupation currency. I do have a problem with folks who are too enamored by Nazi replica stuff because it shows a fascination with the concept more than the relics. But, to each his own. As to the swastika being on other things, I have Czarist money from Russia printed in the late 1800's on up to WWI with it on them. As a symbol, it is an interesting, eye-catching one - much like bio-hazard and fall-out shelter symbols have a form that is attractive.

As to Confederate heritage, I am very proud of my heritage. I own a Colt model 1849 my Great Great grandfather Daniel carried, at the age of 14, to the Battle of Atlanta. My family is at present exclusively of Confederate descent. Nothing at all in the world wrong with that. They were all farmers/pastors and none of them own slaves, but did live in Georgia, Alabama, and Florida and, particularly the Georgians, saw an invading army destroying their property. They had every right to defend it.

But then, I really like this symbol, kind of an Anti-Nazi symbol.
 

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BIG G,be tolerant.Put yourself into the shoes of people seeing the SS isignia or swastika in WW2,these were not fashion items but items of hate.We have laws in the UK were wearing these items in public is considered offensive.They have laws in Germany were the wearing of such item is fineable and can lead to a prison sentence.
There is still a hard core of Nazi sympathisers in Europe who regard the wearing these symbols as a sign of what happened in WW2 was justified.
Again gun shows,collectors,no problem,wearing in public offending people yes I draw the line.
 
Remember the big Wal-Mart flap a few months ago? They had to pull a bunch of t-shirts off the racks because they had the insignia of the 3rd SS Panzergrenadier Division "Totenkopf" on them (a kind of stylized skill-and-bones logo).

Evidently some designer was totally ignorant of the origin of this emblem, and Wal-Mart's buyers were just as clueless. They probably thought "Oh, cool logo".
 
I am not offended by war memorabilia. I am slightly annoyed at people selling modern nazi and kkk crap.
 
I've got a K98 RC and I have to say it's pretty cool to see all the markings and think about the poor schmuck that had to carry that thing into a russian winter.

That being said, I personally get the creeps around some of the nazi memorabilia sellers . . .

I feel that the guys selling exhaust pipe with sten cutouts stencilled onto it and all the "Full Auto" manuals probably do as much or more damage as the nazi guys.

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave
 
We have laws in the UK were wearing these items in public is considered offensive.They have laws in Germany were the wearing of such item is fineable and can lead to a prison sentence.

I've had this discussion on another forum fairly recently. Insomuch as I find Nazism offensive, I find laws against a belief MORE offensive.


Before anyone says it, I do not sympathize with Nazis. My grandfather was wounded on D-Day and again a few months later in France. His belief to his death was that one of the most important things he did in his life was to fight against Hitler.

It often amazes me that people can be upset with certain imagery that may or may not espouse a belief and yet find others perfectly acceptable. When I was in college in the 1990's, it was fashionable for some to wear Rastafarian clothing. Has anyone ever actually looked at the beliefs expoused by Rastafarians?


Leonard Howell taught the Rastafarians hatred for the white race, and that the whites are inferior. This was an overreaction to oppression. Teaching included the idea that the devil is actually the god of the White man and that the black race was superior.



-- John
 
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It is not just the gun shows, television has a fascination with Nazi's as well (which mean people in general).
I think it was Johnny Carson that noted, every ratings period you get shows with Nazis on TV.
When you have an example, so recent, so close, so evil, it is like a car crash. You don't want to look, but you are too fascinated to NOT look.
 
I used to visit the local auction house once a month. Among the antiques and garbage were display cases for guns and other "don't touch" items. I often looked at the guns, but never bid on any... partly because they were next to the Nazi memorabilia. Some of the Nazi stuff was obviously modern neo-Nazi garbage, and not a replica of anything from WWII. Yes, it really bothered me.

At one point I took a firearms-neutral friend to the auction. All he kept saying the whole time was things like "I can't believe they are selling Nazi stuff and guns!" He couldn't seem to come to terms with the fact that they were two very different items that just happened to have been placed near each other. It really bothered him, too.
 
Hello all

First time poster, long time lurker and long time gun guy. I've been going to gun shows for the past 22 years in many states and have found that depending on the state and the culture of the area what is displayed can be very different. I'm also a student of history and can appreciate seeing true war memorabilia for what it is, something from history. I see the Nazi displays as just that, showing history.

Now personally I could never own any of it cause I'm Jewish and well you all understand. Which puts me in a real conundrum cause some of the Nazi/German weapons were great pieces that as a gun collector I would love but not sure if any of them were responsible for killing a relative so they won't enter my safes.

I also feel that as long as it is out in the open and people can see what actually occurred back then then, I hope and pray that that never happens again.

This is an awesome site, you all do a great job here as mods. Keep up the good work.

Chuck
 
My opinion is the nazi stuff has it's place. Collectors see historicall value in it. It should not be left to go to rot and be forgotten. The more I learn of what our parents went through in WWII, that reinforses being able to see this stuff, touch it, buy it, collect it. Some of it was brought home by our soldiers and is a direct connection to their experiences. When they couldn't bring the firearms home as trophys they brought whatever they could pack.
It's to bad hitler used the swastika symbol and ruined it for generations to come. I've seen it used as a border stamp on holsters, rifle scabbards and saddles from the American west of the late 1800's.
 
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That's about at close as it gets for gun shows out here.
Saw that on a T-Shirt

Also decided to buy this shirt:
61FAB8T0KXL._AA280_.jpg

I'm pretty sure Nazi memorabilia, for anything other than historical coolness, would be frowned up pretty greatly in my area.
 
A lot of people collect milsurp and other errata associated with wars, or periods, etc. I want to start a "guns of the Viet Nam war" collection.

I think if they are just things and not ideas being sold that we are fine!
 
I was recently involved in a similar discussion over at APS. I don't own any Nazi military memorabilia for the same reason I don't own any Russian (Soviet or Tsarist) military memorabilia. I'm not into keeping souveniers of murderers. Yeah, they are just inanimate objects. They are also inanimate objects that were used in mass murder and oppression. I don't want a weapon used by Hitler or Stalin's thugs any more than I want Jeffrey Dahmer's butcher knife.
I'm not convinced the guns, helmets, and other relics even have much in the way of true historical value. I strongly doubt that the atrocities committed by the Nazis and the Bolsheviks will, somehow, be forgotten if American shooters don't own WWII guns.
 
J WARREN..you are missing the point.Exchanging,selling,dealing,collecting these items not my cup of tea but there are people who do,I have no problem with that.
I have major problems with people walking the streets of Europe wearing these items and chanting racial hatred.It goes on far too much and is considered in certain circles as freedom of speech.On a recent trip to Poland I witnessed the same hatred, the daubing of swastikas and SS on gravestones in cemetaries.I then saw the other side of hatred at the death camps,families weeping for lost love one's,and asking why ?
I am sure this entry will probably have tipped the debate over the edge,I wait for it to be closed.
 
J WARREN..you are missing the point.

Actually, I don't think I did. And you are right. This likely tips this thread. I'll happily take this to PMs if you wish.

Regarding the laws against a belief...

I don't think I am far from the mark. While I am no expert on the affairs of Europe, it is my understanding that there are nations where the display of any Nazi symbolism is outlawed. I believe this to be the case in Germany, which doesn't surprise me. What does suprise me is that there are nations where it is illegal to deny the Holocaust or to do any research that would question the facts surrounding it. It is not the same issue, but related nonetheless.

I have no doubt the Holocaust occured-- and I consider it one of civilization's worst offenses. But I also question a policy that prohibits people to believe certain ways or to research it. If someone wants to spend their life with such foolishness, so be it.

But to me, it speaks loudly about freedom in some parts of Europe. We should not consider ourselves tolerant or free unless we are willing to afford the same tolerance and freedoms to those we disagree with-- even if we detest them.

As I have espoused on many threads, either everything is OK, or nothing is OK.

-- John
 
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I don't mind Nazi stuff sold as historical relics, but when the vendor is sporting a Hilter moustache and a full Nazi party uniform offering none of his wares for sale, it makes me wonder if he is really just there to make a political statement.
 
I don't mind Nazi stuff sold as historical relics, but when the vendor is sporting a Hilter moustache and a full Nazi party uniform offering none of his wares for sale, it makes me wonder if he is really just there to make a political statement.
I am not offended one bit by political statements. I am free to ignore them at will. Its a gun show. Gun shows celebrate one of our freedoms. Another of our freedoms is to make asses of ourselves spouting nonsense (it certainly happens on THR enough). If the show promoter says OK, its OK by me. If the customers complain about it enough, the promoter will get rid of them. Most probably tune it out, and might not even notice them. Its that simple.
 
This thread makes me want to get on youtube and find the Jerry Springer episode where the JDL(Jewish Defense League) beat up the KKK. Oh, and what is up with all the hitler youth knives? I think somewhere some bunch is still making them. I went to a gun show that seemed to have a "heritage row". There was a nazi table, a Japanese table with a samurai sword, imperial battle flag, and a Nambu, a native American table with bead work and handmade bows and arrows, and a USA table with a Singer 1911.
 
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