Guns and alchohol consumption - Poll

[jaysouth]

Mr. Ames,

Folks in the headshrinking business use the term "projection". A phobia in which persons try to project their fears, inadequacies and phobias onto other persons in an attempt to rationalize their own shortcomings.

If someone is not responsible enough to have a couple of drinks and continue on with whatever, they are not responsible enough to own a firearm.

If someone chooses to not drink, that's their business, but if they should not try to project their "virtues" onto others.

Puritans and prudes are always offended by someone else having a good time or enjoying life.

Again, I want someone to cite an injury or death related to alcohol at a range. Not billy-bob's deer camp or the parking lot at a tavern.

 

[Eric F]

If someone is not responsible enough to have a couple of drinks and continue on with whatever, they are not responsible enough to own a firearm.

Come on man thats just too extreeme in fact right up on stupid as far as generalizations go. Folks can drink and own guns! just keep things in moderation.

Puritans and prudes are always offended by someone else having a good time or enjoying life.

Is a crack addiction enjoying life? Not to me but some folks like it. Does that make me a prude for telling my kid not to do drugs?
Please!
As for the rest of your post it is with in the realm of possibility infact I am certian it has hapened can I prove it no but I am still sure it has occured

 

[ashgee]

Voted 2nd from above, but may have misunderstood the meaning. Don't drink myself, but wouldn't mind it if my partner (you meant that in a work sense, right..?) had a couple of beers while carrying. Shooting would be a different thing.

 

[subierex]

I drink, but once the first tab is pulled, the firearms are off limits until tomorrow. I don't drink enough to consider myself dangerous with firearms, but it's just a good rule to live by, IMHO.

edit: If the Russians landed in force on my driveway, I might reconsider.

 

[CAVHOOAH]

Wearing a lightning arresting suit while going out in the rain is also a good idea. As far as im concerned, ill have a few and head out to the ole yard to plink anytime . I live in Kentucky and literally have miles between anyone else and I. To those who dont drink, and feel like its one of the greatest sins this side of adultry......Oh well. My freedom here in america protects me (mostly) from being bothered by that type of person. Ill hang out here at the house and break out a whole arsenal and go to town! but dont expect a warm welcome at my house if you come to preach this Anti-alchohol crap. My grandfather is 97 years old this year, he drinks a half of box of wine a day. Hes 97 ! Am I going to head over to his home and tell him drinking is bad ? Hes a WW2 vet and has fought for his rights and opinions just as all his children and childrens children have. We have all served...every one of us. Most fought..... Point being gents, THANK GOD (and your soldiers) that we live in a free country where we can roll out to the back yard on Veterans day...Load a mag or two, crack open a cold one and let her rip. Or that we can sit out in the yard wile cooking a big ole fat boston butt and play cards with those really sweet poker targets Thank god for them too while your at it !

 

[Constantine-p89]

Ok who put beer and drugs, LOL

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I'd wager the same kind of people who voted that they drink and handle guns are the same type of people who say "No really, I'm good to drive" when leaving the bar...

 

[Grizfire]

I do not understand why some people here have to completely lock away their guns when they start to drink?? Are you that out of control when you have a drink or two. Or are you implying that when you drink, you get completely schnockered to the point that you puke on yourself and can not be trusted?? It just sounds like if you have to take these extreme precautions in order to drink, you shouldn't drink period.

What about other dangerous objects, do you put those away too? I have huge hands, but I'm not going to lock the cat away to keep from strangling her when I have a drink!!! I know that I'm not going to strangle the cat when I have a drink, and I also know that I'm not going to handle my guns irresponsible when I have a drink either....

...as said before, know thyself.

And for those of you who don't get it, there is a link between impairment and the amount of alcohol consumed. One ethanol molecule will not make you impaired or irresponsible...there does come a point where impairment arises, and for me, I'm fine after one drink with dinner, and therefore there is no practical reason why I can't shoot or handle firearms after one drink.

 

[Eric F]

I am amazed that the thread locking ferry has not visited this thread yet. Most other drinking and what ever threads have been shut long before 11 pages drinking and everything else is a bad idea.....yeah what ever prohibition was a great thing too right? Come on folks common sense tells us when enough is enough and what you can and can not do. Some folks know the diffrence some do not. That is how laws and redundant laws keep comming about.

 

[corncob]

I love the internet.

I love the internet.

I think this has been a fantastic thread. And amen to the "trust yourself" argument..that's exactly what I was trying to say.

BUT, I think the dove shoot/turkey shoot crowd has been underrepresented in the poll (I guess they generally don't overlap much with the internet crowd). Where I'm from, half of the people you meet drink, half think it's a sin. When a group of men go hunting (or mechanic-ing, or game-watching, etc.) alcohol is consumed or not based on which of the two categories the men fall into, regardless of the nature of the activity being engaged. Those who drink often drink to what I'm sure many on this forum would consider excess, but all it does is slow them down a bit.

Those who turn into Mr. Hyde after a sip (and I've met a few) don't generally drink socially. Gun people are (generally) a practical bunch.

 

[bear71]

"I think this has been a fantastic thread. And amen to the "trust yourself" argument..that's exactly what I was trying to say."

Thank you very much for the positive feedback. It's an interesting subject. Thanks to the mods as well who have allowed it and some very passionate posts to stand open for discussion.

 

[1911 guy]

Drinking, fine. Shooting, fine. Together, not so much. I don't drink and drive, drink and dive, drink and swim, drink and play with sharp objects, etc.

Now I've been to lots of get togethers that began with shooting and progressed to some frosted barley pops, but those were seperate activities at the same location. Move from shooting to drinking. Once you had something to drink, you were done shooting.

Would you let your kids on a schoolbus if the driver had "only a few drinks"?

 

[logical]

Sorry to be blunt Bear, but the poll is very poorly written and that is why it is causing such problems. Poll responses should stand alone or be very short. If you want them to refer back to the heading, then they need to be no more wordy than "strongly agree, agree, somewhat agree, etc.".

They should also progress in a linear fashion from one end of the spectrum to the other, not jump all over the map. You also are mixing options that describe the responder's own behavior with some that describe his/her feelings which leads to most people having trouble finding a "best" answer. If people are confused, then it is a bad poll. If you want good results you need to accept that a certain percentage of people (fairly high actually) do not read very closely. You can be "right", but that doesn't make it a good poll.

You posted:
Your level of tolerance Firearms and alchohol use
-Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.
-My partner has a couple beers, no problem.
-My partner and I shoot after a few beers, no big deal.
-I'll have a few beers alone sometimes before shooting.
-I don't drink, none of my friends do, never have, never will, period.
-The guys get together after several beers and sometimes shoot.
-I've been legally "drunk" and fired a gun.
-I've fired a gun on a mixture of alchohol and some drugs.

Try this next time: Regarding my opinion on the use of alcohol while using firearms:
- I believe firearms should never be used after any amount of alcohol use
- I believe firearm use after "a beer or two" is fine
- I believe firearm use after moderate drinking up to the legal driving limit is not a problem
- I believe any amount of alcohol before using firearms is OK

If you then want to measure people's behavior, it needs to be separate and specific. i.e., I never, I rarely, I sometimes, I always......

 

[Biker]

Well said, Logical.

Biker

 

[bear71]

That sounds very logical, logical, but then we would have had four responses and this thread would be as dull as Biker's senses after a heroine bout.

 

[logical]

I assume you actually mean "heroin", although the way you spelled it actually makes it more funnier.

 

[Browning]

When we go shooting or hunting we usually bring the beers for AFTER we shoot.

That should have been a poll option. I've seen some of my friends after they get some alcohol in them and it wouldn't be safe and I don't want to get shot as a result of someone acting stupid because they're drunk/tipsy.

 

[bear71]

"I assume you actually mean "heroin", although the way you spelled it actually makes it more funnier."

Yes, my spelling is average at best.

 

[bear71]

"That should have been a poll option."

The poll header states "Guns and alcohol", not "Guns before alcohol".

Funny how so many people want to slink out of answering truthfully. If you do not condone drinking and firearms usage, you must select option one.

 

[weisse52]

Well written, poorly written. I do not think it took very long for anyone to understand the intent of the poll. As is the way on the Internet a few want to pull apart the grammar, some want to understand the deeper meaning of posts and responses and take issue. Some want to justify their actions and some want to convince everyone that they alone have the answers to everything.

Bottom line is over 67% did not think alcohol and guns mixed. How many people, after reading the posts want to change their vote?

 

[Biker]

My vote stands. Punish the behavior, not the potential.

Biker

 

[Officers'Wife]

HI Biker,

My vote stands. Punish the behavior, not the potential.

I see that as time goes on we agree after all. Perhaps your problem with my other post was the severity of the punishment?

Selena

 

[inherentical]

'Course I don't mix liquor with firearms. All the oil gets stripped off and they get coated in sticky drink mixes that attract dirt and moisture.

 

[elkhuntingfool]

I wont' remain silent. I think the dumbest thing someone could do is mix booze and guns - I don't care who you are - you are an idiot if you do it and I don't care for the excuses, write offs, whatever you think in your head to justify the behavior.

 

[Ed Ames]

I see that as time goes on we agree after all.

It seemed to me that you were saying that drinking while handling a firearm itself was bad behavior that needed to be punished. That's why I disagree with you. Can't speak for Biker of course but that's my difference with your position.

If you do something criminal with a gun you should be punished.

If you are sober OR drunk and do something criminal with a gun you should be punished. Same act, same punishment.

In either case the punishment should fit the harm.

Therefore you can remove alcohol from the equation altogether and judge simply on the actual actions.

It is absurd to say that a person who is weaving through traffic or unable to stay in their lane or drives into the back of a car on the shoulder because she was following the tail lights and kills someone should get off just because she was sober. Arguably the person who does that while sober should be held to a higher than normal standard and should be more strongly sanctioned. That can lead to a different sort of injustice so the only proper action is to disregard alcohol AND ALL OTHER EXCUSES and punish the actions based on the results. As a side note... if the laws had been written this way instead of being written from a moral bias against alcohol we wouldn't need to be talking about new laws against driving with cell phones. Studies have shown that a cell phone is more of an impairment to driving than being legally drunk, but the drunk-driving laws are all based on a moral judgment against alcohol rather than an objective performance standard so they can't be applied to cell phones or PSPs or anything else. Bad law.

It is absurd to say that a person who has a few drinks and goes squirrel hunting, safely killing a squirrel and causing no harm or risk to anyone else, should be punished just because they were legally drunk.

If something is bad it should be punished whether the person doing it is drunk or sober. If it's only bad when the person is drunk then you aren't talking about a sensible law, you are talking about a moral judgment about drink.