MaterDei
Member
txgolfer45 is taking the LOW road. 
Here we go again. Hooters bans CHL .
- Thread starter jsalcedo
- Start date
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here's an e-mail I sent to Mr. Gesser...
Mr. Gessner,
I have become aware of the policy of your chain of resturants to refuse service to those patrons carrying concealed firearms. I am sure that this decision was made with the best of intentions. Please advise me if the information I have received is correct, because if so, I will make sure that the 3000+ members of the Miami-Dade (FL) Police Benevolent Association, and the over 2000 members of the Miami-Dade Police Department's Retired Officer Council are aware of this policy, and cease patronizing your establishments. It is a requirement that all Miami-Dade Police Officers be armed at all times, even off-duty, and all members of the Retired Offciers Council have state issued concealed weapons permits. I am sure that, as enforcer's of the law, thay would not wish to risk violating your policy.
James Slack
Retired Police Lieutenant, Miami-Dade Police Department
P.S. it's a shame, I really like your wings.
Mr. Gessner,
I have become aware of the policy of your chain of resturants to refuse service to those patrons carrying concealed firearms. I am sure that this decision was made with the best of intentions. Please advise me if the information I have received is correct, because if so, I will make sure that the 3000+ members of the Miami-Dade (FL) Police Benevolent Association, and the over 2000 members of the Miami-Dade Police Department's Retired Officer Council are aware of this policy, and cease patronizing your establishments. It is a requirement that all Miami-Dade Police Officers be armed at all times, even off-duty, and all members of the Retired Offciers Council have state issued concealed weapons permits. I am sure that, as enforcer's of the law, thay would not wish to risk violating your policy.
James Slack
Retired Police Lieutenant, Miami-Dade Police Department
P.S. it's a shame, I really like your wings.
txgolfer45
Member
MaterDei,
Our email and letter writing must have had an effect. While I never saw the 30.06 sign before, it isn't up now. Only the "Unlicensed carry" signs plus the nonconforming Handguns aren't allowed sign remain. I definitely would feel better if the non-conforming sign was gone.
Scott
Our email and letter writing must have had an effect. While I never saw the 30.06 sign before, it isn't up now. Only the "Unlicensed carry" signs plus the nonconforming Handguns aren't allowed sign remain. I definitely would feel better if the non-conforming sign was gone.
Scott
MaterDei
Member
txgolfer45,
I hope you're right. However, I'm not sure there was ever a 30.06 sign, jsalcedo never responded to that question. What say you, j?
Regardless, I think the fact that they should have any sign at all is an indication that they don't support our rights and, therefore, should not be supported. That is a personal decision, however, and if you decide to continue to go there regardless of their anti attitude, that is none of my business.
From my perspective, if a company or organization has indicated that they are anti in any way, that is enough to keep my money away, even if they haven't met the legal requirements to force me away. For example, companies like Ben and Jerrys and Levis, which obviously can't prohibit me from buying their products due to the fact that they don't control the stores that their products are sold at, still don't get my business because of their policies and actions.
Happy Thanksgiving,
MaterDei
I hope you're right. However, I'm not sure there was ever a 30.06 sign, jsalcedo never responded to that question. What say you, j?
Regardless, I think the fact that they should have any sign at all is an indication that they don't support our rights and, therefore, should not be supported. That is a personal decision, however, and if you decide to continue to go there regardless of their anti attitude, that is none of my business.
From my perspective, if a company or organization has indicated that they are anti in any way, that is enough to keep my money away, even if they haven't met the legal requirements to force me away. For example, companies like Ben and Jerrys and Levis, which obviously can't prohibit me from buying their products due to the fact that they don't control the stores that their products are sold at, still don't get my business because of their policies and actions.
Happy Thanksgiving,
MaterDei
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
While I am in complete agreement with the points made in this thread, y'all seem to be missing the point.
They know perfectly well that those signs are non-sensical and ineffective for keeping armed criminals off the premises.
The only reason they're there is liability. If someone has an AD with their CCW and kills or injures another patron, the "No Guns" sign serves as a legal shield against lawsuits. They're there because of the corporate lawyers, who figure that the potential liability for NDs greatly outweighs the potential liability for robbed or murdered staff or patrons.
They know perfectly well that those signs are non-sensical and ineffective for keeping armed criminals off the premises.
The only reason they're there is liability. If someone has an AD with their CCW and kills or injures another patron, the "No Guns" sign serves as a legal shield against lawsuits. They're there because of the corporate lawyers, who figure that the potential liability for NDs greatly outweighs the potential liability for robbed or murdered staff or patrons.
MaterDei
Member
Then is it OK for someone to post a legit 30.06 sign for liability purposes?
CleverNickname
Member
If they're in charge of the property, they can post a 30.06 sign for any reason they feel like. Marko was just trying to give a possible train of thought as to why they'd post it.
Andrew Rothman
Member
From our experience in Minnesota, I truly believe that some businesses try very hard to have it both ways:
They post a delibertately nonconforming sign, placating the fright-ninnies, knowing full well that permit holders will know enough to ignore it.
Okay, maybe it's cowardly or not supportive of our cause, but neither is it very detrimental.
I am mostly content to simply walk past non-compliant signs, knowing that the owner is either phenomenally stupid or giving me a wink and a nod.
They post a delibertately nonconforming sign, placating the fright-ninnies, knowing full well that permit holders will know enough to ignore it.
Okay, maybe it's cowardly or not supportive of our cause, but neither is it very detrimental.
I am mostly content to simply walk past non-compliant signs, knowing that the owner is either phenomenally stupid or giving me a wink and a nod.
Jeff OTMG
Member
The non-conforming no handguns sign is to prevent unlicensed individuals who are legally carrying a handgun (the 'travelling' exemption) from entering the restaurant.
The 'unlicensed possession' signs prohibit the legal carry of rifles, shotguns, machine guns, and other unlicensed carry firearms, which are not prohibited from carry in Texas. In Texas the only firearm that cannot be legally carried regularly is a handgun, unless you have a CHL, or meet certain other criteria.
This is where it is illegal to carry a HANDGUN in Texas without a CHL:
§ 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a HANDGUN, illegal knife, or club.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages
(Note: It doesn't matter if it is for on or off premises consumption)
Fortunately in this section it spells out when the rules don't apply:
§ 46.15. Nonapplicability
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is traveling;
BUT 46.02 only references handguns. The 'unlicensed possession' sign covers all firearms, but only handguns sometimes. The other sign covers unlicensed carry of handguns.
All the info can be found in Texas Statutes here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#top
None of the signs is a 30.06, never was. The Appleby's situation was ENTIRELY different as they posted a valid CHL prohibiting 30.06 sign. This whole thread about Texas Wings has been a waste of time and effort because CHL carry was never banned.
The 'unlicensed possession' signs prohibit the legal carry of rifles, shotguns, machine guns, and other unlicensed carry firearms, which are not prohibited from carry in Texas. In Texas the only firearm that cannot be legally carried regularly is a handgun, unless you have a CHL, or meet certain other criteria.
This is where it is illegal to carry a HANDGUN in Texas without a CHL:
§ 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a HANDGUN, illegal knife, or club.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages
(Note: It doesn't matter if it is for on or off premises consumption)
Fortunately in this section it spells out when the rules don't apply:
§ 46.15. Nonapplicability
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is traveling;
BUT 46.02 only references handguns. The 'unlicensed possession' sign covers all firearms, but only handguns sometimes. The other sign covers unlicensed carry of handguns.
All the info can be found in Texas Statutes here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#top
None of the signs is a 30.06, never was. The Appleby's situation was ENTIRELY different as they posted a valid CHL prohibiting 30.06 sign. This whole thread about Texas Wings has been a waste of time and effort because CHL carry was never banned.
MaterDei
Member
I'm not sure how you know what the INTENT of Texas Wings is in posting their signs, Jeff, but I know for certain that their General Counsel does know their intent. In fact, he made their intent very clear in his letter. He clearly intends to prohibit CHL holders.
BluesBear
member
Sounds like liability-CYA-mumble-jumbo to me. Notice that their response had to go through their lawyers to make sure it was worded correctly.
What they really mean is this;
While we certainly recognize that for you or any other Texas citizen to acquire a Concealed Handgun Permit, you must pass certain background checks as well as written and physical tests, we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure that we lose as little money as possible in any frivilous lawsuits that might occur. Moreover, because each Hooters restaurant serves alcoholic beverages, we believe that the consumption of alcohol and the presence of firearms is not a very good combination. While I am sure that you are responsible in your carrying of firearms, you must know how stupid many of our customers can get after we have served them too much alcohol. It is so our corporate buttocks are covered that Texas Wings, Inc. has installed the signs like the one you saw in Lewisville.
What they really mean is this;
While we certainly recognize that for you or any other Texas citizen to acquire a Concealed Handgun Permit, you must pass certain background checks as well as written and physical tests, we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure that we lose as little money as possible in any frivilous lawsuits that might occur. Moreover, because each Hooters restaurant serves alcoholic beverages, we believe that the consumption of alcohol and the presence of firearms is not a very good combination. While I am sure that you are responsible in your carrying of firearms, you must know how stupid many of our customers can get after we have served them too much alcohol. It is so our corporate buttocks are covered that Texas Wings, Inc. has installed the signs like the one you saw in Lewisville.
mountainclmbr
Member
My guess is that John B. Gessner is wearing those little orange shorties.
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Gee, and to think that I never drink when I'm carrying.
Of course, I don't suppose I'll start going to Hooters anyway. No money from me.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Of course, I don't suppose I'll start going to Hooters anyway. No money from me.
Regards,
Rabbit.
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