Handgun for Armored Car Job

[Joey]

'm looking into getting a job with a major armored car company & they require you to have a pistol & will supply the ammo. They do provide one guy armed with a shotgun, but my weapon will be the pistol.

I'm not sure what bullet or weight they will issue in what caliber so that's a non player right now.

I'd like to get a weapon light for the pistol also.

What pistol would ya recomend and why for such a job.

 

[Devonai]

Any Smith & Wesson autoloader with a manual safety. These pistols feature a magazine disconnect, which will prevent the pistol from firing when the magazine is not present.

These two features, along with a retention holster, could save your butt in a job that requires you to be distracted most of the time.

 

[James T Thomas]

Brinkmanship

I will only recommend -on the supposition that should you have to use your firearm it will be in the after moment of being taken under fire, and further that you are able to defend yourselves; that is that you have not been wounded beyond capacity to defend yourself.

I have no experience in armored car delivery at all, however, your employer has, and would be a good source for advice as to what has actually happened in their industry.

It would be not sound for robbers to attempt to "get the drop" on you and your partner because of the likely instance of the two of you being seperated while performing your duties. And the difficulty of stationing a team, or group in an area and still remaining unoticed by either of you.

Given that, I would suppose you would be ambushed; taken under a coordinated fire and assault. That would occur at close, but not contact distance.

A large bore handgun, long barrel, with metal sights.

The long barrel would hinder a "quick draw," which my supposition would preclude you from needing anyway.
The longer sight radius giving you somewhat more efficient distance aiming.

Please post your decision, and keep alert!

 

[bigbore442001]

I have the impression that armored car companies have guidelines for what they will allow. I had an interview once in the past and basically they wanted a DA autoloader in a police caliber. So a 9mm, 40 SW , 45 ACP would have been acceptable.

 

[Devonai]

I have no experience in armored car delivery at all...

I do.

It would be not sound for robbers to attempt to "get the drop" on you and your partner because of the likely instance of the two of you being seperated while performing your duties. And the difficulty of stationing a team, or group in an area and still remaining unoticed by either of you.

I worked in downtown Boston, with very little flexibility in time of delivery and in most cases no choice of where to park. Stationing a team would be easy and remaining unnoticed is a matter of blending into the hundred or so people already present. It is impossible to maintain adequate situational awareness under these conditions, which is why I switched to plainclothes work in an unmarked vehicle.

Given that, I would suppose you would be ambushed; taken under a coordinated fire and assault. That would occur at close, but not contact distance.

This is not an entirely unlikely scenario, but all the robberies I heard about involved one or two bad guys at contact distance. In the worst instance, the driver and messenger were shot immediately before they could respond at all.

Why make all that noise and create all that panic when you can cold-cock the messenger as he's trying to load 300 pounds of quarters onto a hand truck?

I have to agree that a longer barrel wouldn't hurt, but I don't think anything over five inches would be necessary or practical. I think the S&W 1006 and 4506 are ideal for this application.

 

[CarbineKid]

I was offered an armored car job, but I declined. When I went thru the interview process I was told the following: The company provided Taurus 38 revolvers. I could use my own gun. To do so I would have to qualify with it, and I must use hollowpoints only. The gentleman also told me the company did not offer bullet proof vests, but I could buy my own, and use it on the job. I declined the job and took another one. I have no regrets in my decision.

 

[Sunray]

"...I could buy my own..." Low pay I bet too.
"...a major armored car company..." Can't be that 'major' if they don't supply everything.

 

[Trebor]

A buddy of mine used to work for an armored car company. At one point when I was out of work I briefly considered applying there. He said a reccomendation from someone who worked there would *almost* guarantee a spot.

Fortunately, I quickly realized, "What the heck am I thinking?" And decided not to apply. It made no sense for me to voluntarily make myself a target, at just a little over minimum wage, to protect OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. At least cops are performing a public service. Armored security jobs aren't a career, unless you own the business, and are underpaid for the risk involved. There is also the real possibility of back injury from lugging hundreds of pounds of coins.

I kept the job search going and got a nice office job as a registration clerk in a hospital. Much better pay, fantastic health benefits, and much lower risk. (Not "No risk" though. There is no job where you come in contact with the public that is guaranteed to be "no risk.")

I'm not trying to knock the guys who work for armored car companies or as private security. Really. It just would have been a dumb decision for me.

 

[chaim]

Well, until you got to the part where they will provide your ammo I was thinking a nice revolver loaded with .38+P JHP or a nice high-cap 9mm.

Two ways of thinking here. The first is that, when I was researching these jobs considering it myself, I noticed that a large number of the robberies that there are of armored car drivers are ambushes. You probably won't know you are under attack until the bullets are flying. Given that there is a good chance you may be hit and injured before your gun ever comes out a simple gun with no levers, like a revolver, seems a good idea. The second idea was that you may have a group of attackers so higher capacity isn't a bad idea.

However, if they will be supplying the ammo, of all you know they may pick 158gr FMJ .38spl or 115gr FMJ 9mm. There are good loadings in .38 and 9mm, but there are some that aren't so good as well. If I'm not picking my own ammo I'll be looking for as big and powerful as possible- .40S&W, .45ACP, .44spl, .45LC. If you go with the auto I'd be considering a DAO or at least a DA/SA with the hammer decocked and safety not engaged in case of bringing the gun into action after an injury.

 

[Joey]

Sunray"...I could buy my own..." Low pay I bet too.
"...a major armored car company..." Can't be that 'major' if they don't supply everything.

Go figure somebody from Ontario Canada is so full of excellent information and help

The job pays way better than being a Paramedic on the local ambulance service or working at the local hospital as a Paramedic/ER Tech or even in admissions.

I'm not requestion job advice, but advice from gun guys as to what sidearm they would use and why.

I have no idea if it will be a career, but what I've seen so far I like, they appear to be a professional run outfit and the employees have nothing but good to say aboout the local and regional bosses.

For those who have posted advice germaine to the subject thanks much & to those that have posted dribble

 

[Joey]

As far as sidearms go, I'm leaning toward the Glock 21, 13 rounds of 45 in the weapon gives ya a warm fuzzy

I'm no "hero" and won't be playing shootout with gooblins, but the ambush factor is a serious threat and one the sidearm only plays part. Training and tactics along with being in condition red when on the job are all parts of the equation.

 

[Devonai]

If you can't stand sifting through the occasional off-topic or useless post in your thread, you won't like it here much! Fortunately most of us won't waste our time posting unless we (think we) have something useful to add.

I love Glocks and the full-size models are my favorites. I would be very surprised, however, if your company allowed you to carry a pistol without a manual safety. Loomis Fargo doesn't allow it. Then again, revolvers are fine, so go figure.

 

[Steelharp]

Whew... when I saw the title of the thread, I thought you were planning something rather illegal and dangerous...

 

[SixForSure]

Been There

I drove armored car for a little over a year when I got out of the service. I always felt that in that job the weapon was 99.9% deterent. Company policy was that if someone said "give me the money", you gave it to them. If they were real BGs and wanted to make sure there was no resistance, they would shoot first and it wouldn't matter at all what caliber was still in my holster as I hit the ground.
As a general matter I feel safe with any reasonable gun/caliber. While driving armored car, however, I don't think I would have felt much less safe with an empty gun, or much more safe with an M60.

 

[355sigfan]

There are lots of acceptable choices. Personally I would recommend a Glock 17. Load it with one of the following: +p 124 grain Federal HST, +p+ 127 grain Winchester Ranger, +p124 grain Remington's Golden Saber. The Glock 21 is a fine sidearm as well and I carried one as a duty pistol for about 6 years. But it has a large grip and I prefer single stack 45's. I prefer 1911's myself. But a good 1911 may be out of your salary range as a Armored car guard.
Pat

 

[Joey]

Thanks everybody, the boss man said a G21 was perfectly acceptable so that's the pistol I'm a geting Issued ammo is Hydra-Shok 230gr HP's & that's a great round even if a tad dated.

Want the light as some of the runs are night runs & if I ever need to draw down on somebody the light will help ensure target ID. It's just another tool in the toolbox is how I look at it. Besides, it's better to have it and not need it than needit and not have it.

They also issue vests that have a great rating, are comfortable and of high quality.

 

[orangeninja]

I would have no qualms recommending a Glock 21. I worked armored for a while and I will tell you of my brief yet harrowing tenure in such an occupation.

First, we had 3 people killed (as in DEAD) in 7 months nationwide for this company.

Second, the company in question is one of the 3 major armored trucks seen nationwide, Dunbar, Brinks, Wells Fargo.

Third, they did not provide bullet proof vests and issued a .38 Taurus revolver with NO RELOADS. You provided your own Sam Browne.

Fourth, no radios were issued, when you got out of sight of the truck you were on your own. I recommend buying radios. My partner an I prevented a robbery using only radios. What happened was he went into a grocery store with a large glass window in front to where I could see the managers office from the truck. 3 black males positioned themselves around the corner to the office's blind spot....I called my partner on the radio and immediately saw their reaction as they heard the call. The repositioned. I called in their new positions and moved to the back of the truck to a tinted side window. One of them came near the truck and tried to look inside. Not seeing a driver, but me knowning where they were caused them to bolt. My partner came out, the manager called the cops, done deal. Get a radio...even a $89.00 Cobra from Amazon is better than nothing....get the best you can afford...as your driver can warn you if anything screwy is going on outside before you exit the building.

Fifth, the driver was to drive off, leaving the courier if anything went down. I never saw this policy honored once. One time the driver shot it out and won, the other time the driver just sat and watched. The armored company cares about the truck and the millions inside, not the guard with a $100,000 life insurance policy. People are disposable in armored.

Sixth, if robbed, you will likely be shot at first. In 4 or 5 robbery attempts, 3 of those the courier was fatally shot before any warning was given. One, the courier was maced, the other the courier returned fire, killing the suspect, who died of infection 2 weeks after the shootout.

Seven, work armored long enough, you will drive into or away from a robbery. Knock on the devil's door long enough....I personally drove into 2 robberies, one attempt and one in progress....I drove away from one, which happened on my final day of work....

Eight, you will be distracted by loading, off loading coin or heavy bags of currency, therefore will have your back turned at somepoint during the stop. Get a level two, preferably level 3 holster....but one that you can access instantly without thinking about it. I had one co-worker where a teenager tried to disarm her in a crowd of people "as a joke"....he almost got the gun. A second time I had a courier (an idiot) drop his gun halfway into the building and had to go back to get it because he was using the wrong kind of holster.

Nine, you will be out of site of the truck the majority of the time...thus alone...get the best vest you can afford, at least a IIIA and get the trauma plate.

Ten, LEARN HOW TO BE RUDE!!!, make hostile eye contact and don't break it even though it goes against your nature. Don't wear sunglasses, make sure they know you see them. Tell people to "Get back" when they get too close, they may complain, but you will live.

Lastly make sure your boots are polished, your Sam Browne is professional and your uniform pressed. It sounds stupid, but appearance can be a HUGE deterant, I know of at least one armord car robber caught who used uniform appearance to choose who to rob....if you are lax in the details, you are considered lax in the big stuff. Keep a professional posture and if the company offers a hat, wear it, statistically fewer cops are shot when wearing a hat, it may be lucky, it may have to do with officer presence....I don't know....but most cops I know who take the time to wear a hat 24/7 also take the time to clean their uniforms.

Get a good quality Sam Browne, a matching holster and accessories. You'll need a Leatherman type tool. A good knife, spare mags and mag holder, level 2 or 3 holster, key holder and radio. Forget mace, handcuffs or baton, you'll never be able to use them.

 

[Joey]

alduro, thanks much for the excellent information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Mad Chemist]

Steelharp Whew... when I saw the title of the thread, I thought you were planning something rather illegal and dangerous...

I thought the same thing at first. Well, in the movie Heat, Val Kilmer and crew......

I can't really offer much more than has already been stated. Try to find a trainer who teaches close-quarters pistol integrated with unarmed skills. The focus should be on weapon access. Good luck and stay safe.

BTW, since it's work related, maybe you can write off the cost of the training on the Glock on your taxes.

JH

 

[lowracer]

G21 Capacity

For an even warmer fuzzy feeling, you'll be happy to hear that the Glock 21 holds 14 rounds. 13 in the magazine, plus one in the pipe.

 

[HighVelocity]

If I were taking the job I'd be carrying a Glock 20 10mm with 3 15 round mags. That's serious power for a pistol.

 

[armoredman]

May I chime in? With 8.5 years of experiance, with two different companies, I think I could add a bit.
Drive away from a holdup on your messenger sounds evil in the extreme, but I have seen it work - they want the truck, not the body. Loomis had one just like that here a few years ago, and the robber looked at the messenger, shrugged, and walked off.
WEAR YOUR VEST. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN!
Most successful truck heists are inside jobs. Before you get too freaked out, in my entire time, I drew my weapon once, was never held up, and nobody in either company died in my state while I worked there.
Well Fargo Armored Service Corp was the worst - gave me a Taurus 38, and 12 rounds of 158gr LRN. By the time I left, my partner and I wore our revolvers to the truck, and switched to autos once out the door.
AT Systems, (Armored Transport when I started, changed names a few months before I left), had a much more sensible policy - issue a Smith 686, or carry something decent, JHP ammo required. We also carried backup guns, those who had CCW permits.
A couple of points - SHOOTING OUT OF A GUNPORT IS A LAWSUIT WAITING TO HAPPEN. Unless you have a Steyr AUG, Bushmaster M17 Bullpup, or a PS 9000, all with high rise holosights, you CANNOT aim through a gunport. Hit one little old lady, and the company will back off from you so fast their backpedalling feet will be smoking... For this reason, on of our OTR rigs HAD a Bushy Bullpup.
If you MUST shoot out of a gunport, and can't have a rifle such as above, have a revolver inside the truck - an auto will jam on the first shot, as the rising/recoiling slide will catch on the top of the gun port. At best you'll just have a jam, at worst some serious damage to your pistola.
You have a 26,000 pound irrisistable force - USE IT. Armored trucks are designed to drive through a brick wall and survive.
I cannot agree more on the professionalism look. A company here in town was the ones that always had trouble - thier employees wore blue jeans with thier uniform shirt, carried Davis .380s, eek: ), and usually had hair down to ther back, and tattoos everywhere.
Let some one else get profiled as the easy target. Look as crisp as possible, to the point of a military or LE look. Make sure your partner reflects that too, and the truck too - yes, a nasty dirty rig with things falling off can be a problem, too, so regular wash jobs can actually help....I had one so rusted in back, (1964 International Wells Fargo rig, and this in 1989), that we joked one round would cause the entire back end to fall off.
Whoops, didn't mean to write a book, (easily could, but who'd read it?), but if you have any questions, feel free to PM, even though I have been out of the business for 5 years.

 

[cookekdjr]

Joey,
good luck to you. I was going to suggest a Glock 23, but I think the 21 is a fine choice. If it seems to big you can always get a G30.
One thing: Just before I left the DA's office in Atlanta, we had a robbery of an armored car. The perps did not ask for the money. They just blew off the guard's head with one blast from a shotgun, and made off with the loot. I left before getting all the details, but I think the killers had some inside information.
The reason I tell this story is to impart this point: Always assume that some crooks are expecting you, even if the stop is "unscheduled". Assume they could be waiting around the corner, behind the bushes, in a parked car next you etc.
The murder in Atlanta happened in a crowded shopping mall, in front of "God and everybody". It could happen anytime.
I don't want to sound like a downer or anything, I just wanted you to use this information for whatever good you can.
Be safe out there.
-David

 

[toocool]

I've worked the last five years as an ATM repair tech for an armored car service, and you have a lot of excellent advice here. My company also allows our choice of weapons, and they provide Federal Hydra Shock ammunition. I carry a Springfield XD45 on duty and find it fits me better and I shoot it better than the Glock 21. Above all, follow the advice about your appearance, use of a vest, and practice with what you carry.

 

[Checkman]

I'm a cop/detective and I don't envy the job that the armored truck crew has. Everyone knows who they are and what they're carrying while they have no idea who is watching them. More then once I've been in a store on a follow up when the pickup occurrs. I've only seen a two man team make the pick up once. The rest of the time there has been one guy in the truck and his partner is in the store.

I've observed the guards looking at me, but I usually have a jacket on and my badge and gun are hidden. They don't know who or what I am. but at leat they're looking at me. If I was a badguy...... well it's a tough job. Some excellent advice here.

Always wear your vest, practice with your handgun- to include immediate action drills and work on situational awareness. Don't adopt the fatalistic attitude that if the BG's want the money, and are willing to kill, then you're dead meat. The BG's aren't supermen and they screw up as well. You never know what can happen whne you're talking about criminals. After all these years I can tell you that they're unpredictable. Be safe.