Handgun for Armored Car Job

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Joey,
I see you made your choice and I think it is a good one. Since the company is buying your ammo, .45acp makes sense. Why not have them foot the bill for the most expensive ammo? 9mm and .40 are good as well but if the ammo is free, .45acp is great.

I worked for an armored car company for 2.5 years when I first got out of college and couldn't find a job in my major. As it turned out, the company actually paid pretty well. I started off at a decent rate and they kept giving me pay raises and benefits.

I started with a SIG 220 but after about a year or so, I switched to a Beretta 92fs. I liked the increased capacity and penetration that 9mm gives you. If I had to shoot through a car door (real possibility) the 9mm will do a better job than the .45acp. The .45acp is probably better in flesh but if you have to shoot through an AMT door or a car door, the 9mm makes great sense.

I only had to draw my gun once and I was inside an ATM, I would have had to shoot from inside it had I needed to fire. Some guy came pounding on the outside of one of the drive up ATMs while I was balancing it. The guy took off after I yelled at him to back away so I didn't need to bust a cap in his a$$. Punk.:D

I did some research and doing that type of work is not as dangerous as most people think. In fact, it is one of the safest jobs I know of. When someone dies, everyone hears about. When someone dies roofing or directing traffic, nobody cares. Just FYI, some of the most dangerous jobs are: gas station clerk, truck driver and Pizza Boy. More pizza guys have been killed in the line of duty than all the armored car drivers and messengers in history.

Find out if you can carry a long arm. I carried a Ruger Mini-14, AR-15, AK-47 and Rem 870 at different times. If I were going to do that kind of work again, I would carry an AK or an AR with a folding stock. When I was working, folders were still preban and I couldn't afford one.

I never had a bullet proof vest. I should have had one but I didn't want to spend the cash for something I considered a temp job. Good ones are like $500. For that kind of money, an AK seemed to make more sense.

You live in WY so the chance of ANYTHING happening is not good. You could do that job for 100 years and never have to shoot anyone.
 
I'll chime in on getting an AK or AR over a vest. It is likely that if you get into a gunfight, they will shoot first, possibly when you are not even looking. I wouldn't buy a vest for a part time gig, I won't buy a vest for a full time gig......I WILL buy a vest for my health and my family......thus don't buy the vest for the job, how much money are you willing to spend to live and see your family again? Sometimes $500.00 ain't so much.
 
QUOTE
I started with a SIG 220 but after about a year or so, I switched to a Beretta 92fs. I liked the increased capacity and penetration that 9mm gives you. If I had to shoot through a car door (real possibility) the 9mm will do a better job than the .45acp.
END QUOTE

Thats not entirely true. If you use good modern bonded core JHP's the 45 does just fine against car doors compared with the 9mm with simular loads. In fact it does better than most.
Pat
 
I started with a SIG 220 but after about a year or so, I switched to a Beretta 92fs. I liked the increased capacity and penetration that 9mm gives you. If I had to shoot through a car door (real possibility) the 9mm will do a better job than the .45acp. The .45acp is probably better in flesh but if you have to shoot through an AMT door or a car door, the 9mm makes great sense.

Hmmmmmmmmm....I've seen more than a few cases where a fmj 230gr .45 round went through a car door, the legs of a passenger or two, and then out the other car door. We didn't recover those slugs. Just the ones that went into the house/buildings next to the car.
 
The best thing to do if you can is get some junk car parts like doors. take them to the range and shoot them from a safe distance. This will dispell a lot of urban legend.
Pat
 
10mm would be my pick also

+1 on the 10mm. If you have to use it, it is probably the best defense round that can be had in a pistol, but I opine. However, like they say, it won't be a bit of good if they have the drop on you, which they likely will if you do encounter a would be BG.

Awareness will be your best defense and a huge dose of whatever it is they give state police for dealing with people. Your demeanor will play a big part in your daily routine. You will have to look bad so that everyone thinks you are bad, and having a sidearm that looks intimidating as hell makes even BG's think twice. Not certain why, but it just does. I think this job will be more psychological than anything else, you'll have to have senses like a cat and know when to trust your gut in situations that feel a little edgy, it could save your hiney.

And since they are supplying you with adequate safety gear, sounds like a good company. One that would not supply vests, would not be a company I'd work for. But I wouldn't do that work anyhow, I have no intention of even remotely putting myself into a situation where some thug might try to steal a bunch of money that's not mine and kill me just so there are no witnesses.

jeepmor
 
"The best thing to do if you can is get some junk car parts like doors. take them to the range and shoot them from a safe distance. This will dispell a lot of urban legend. "

Not urban legend but personal testing. I never said that .45acp would go through a car door. What I did say is that 9mm penetrates better than .45acp period. That is fact, I have tested it, I know. Of course it depends on the load used but all thing being equal, a FMJ 9mm will go deeper than .45acp FMJ. A JHP 9mm will go deeper than a JHP .45acp. Not saying that penetration is the end all and be all but for the task I wanted it for, I felt that the 9mm was a more worthy round.

I would much rather have a .223 though.:D That would make swiss cheese out of a car door and the guy behind it.

As for the vest vs. AK, it is a choice of offense vs. defense. I have always heard that the best defense is a good offense. It would have been nice to have both though in hindsight. Lucky for me, I didn't need either.
 
What are you comfortable with? What have you been shooting? If you buy a revolver you won't have to shoot it as often to keep the confidence level up. If you use an auto-loader you might have to. IMHO get a .45 if you want increased capacity get the next closest thing 10 mil.
 
Geez, guys, all the years I spent jumping out of messenger doors, I never once carried a rifle. Rifles were for inside the rig use, and that under very strict circumstances.The out of town truck got a rifle, and holiday season we put up rifle racks in the windows, displaying personally owned ARs and AKs to people walking by, as an anti-badguy advertisement. It worked.
Vest first, rifle when you can, you are far more likely to be shot outside of the truck...even bad guys can figure out an armored truck MIGHT be bullet resistant...
But, don't take my word for it, ask the guys you now work with.
 
Really, this is exactly what the FN Five-seveN was designed for. 20 round magazine, shoots through doors and body armor(which would probably be more likely in this field than any other).

But the man went with the G21 so the points moot. And really, that's probably the most realistic.
 
QUOTE
Really, this is exactly what the FN Five-seveN was designed for. 20 round magazine, shoots through doors and body armor(which would probably be more likely in this field than any other).
END QUOTE

It was desinged to go through soft body armor not car doors. I doubt its very effective against vehicles because the full power 223 with most loads is not that great against vehicles. The problem with the Five -seven is the small permanite wound cavity it creates. Its about as powerfull as a 22 mag. So it would be just dandy for small game hunting but hardly a good choice for self defense.
Pat
 
Can't go wrong with the Glock 21. Make sure you get a good holster and practice ALOT. Might want to think about a backup weapon as well. Like a Smith J-frame or similar. Can never be too careful IMO. I have worked a few different jobs, Armored car, armed transport, etc. One job provided me a SIG P229 .40 to use, others were old .38's or I could use my own. I normally carried a Glock 17 in a Safariland Lev2 rig. Did have a few problems, but everything worked out in the end without gunfire thankfully, just stay alert and safe.
 
You have received good advice here. Now just be prepared for the idiots. Couple of mondays ago I was working messenger and we stopped at a Shell station to get some coffee. As I was stepping out of the side door of the truck some dumbass was standing behind his car door, pointed his finger at me and announced "this is a hold up" I just looked at him and said "you looking on getting yourself shot?" Inside the shell station he asked me if I would really of shot him. I said not today, it's monday and I don't have the time. I will be back here tomorrow, try it again since it will be tue and a easy day as my route goes I will have time to shoot you, do a statement for the police and if I don't get arrested for shooting a stupid redneck out of season I should have time to finish my route. Havent seen him since.
rickatwork26ee.jpg
 
That's always been on my "avoid this job list" but to each their own. I worked as a "rent-a-cop" when I first got out of the service for about 3 months in 69. I had a kid at a rock concert (Jefferson Airplane) try to take my pistol, (S&W 4" Mod 28) so I grabbed his hand and broke his thumb and index finger. He tried to have me arrested but the Police told him that I should have him arrested and he dropped it all. I expected to get sued but I guess he gave it up. I had a couple of witnesses on my side. That was it for me. All you guys that do this, be careful. It's a different time now.:)
 
I never carried a rifle outside of the truck. I did have the out of town route and I figuired that there was a chance of being held up out in the middle of nowhere. There are a million things that could happen so you have to make some choices about your own situation.

I always tried to think how I would do it if I were going to rob someone. I also paid attention to past robberies and what happened. An armored car is only so bullet proof. It is not a tank. If someone had an AK, they would be able to shoot through the window or windshield if they fired several rounds at the same location. Hell, it is only steel, a high powered rifle like a .50BMG could go right through several of those trucks! The way I looked at it, the truck gave us some extra time to get ready to shoot back. If you can have a Mini-14 or an AK in the truck, do it! The tires are not bullet proof and the truck can be taken out if they shoot your radiator as well. If they come for you in the truck, they are probably going to have AKs or something like that. Might as well be on an even playing field if it comes to that.

There are a lot of situations that you can't control and can't protect yourself. There are times when you are helpless. It may be when you are taking several loads of coin out of a bank or when you are standing at the side door of a bank with $250,000 in small bills in a big clear pastic bag. Anyone could pop you in the head at those times and you wouldn't even know it. Those are the ones that you can't do anything about. Keep alert and all that but carry enough ammo that if you do get into a gunfight, you can at least put up a fight. An AK with a couple of mags would buy me enough time to keep them pinned down long enough for the cops to get there, I hope. A Beretta with three 15rd mags should buy me enough time to get to the truck or to get back inside. I plan on shooting a lot if I am shot at so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo.

For most of my time on the job, I had the good fortune to work with someone that I really ddin't like. I wouldn't have a problem leaving the white trash POS that I had to train. He beat his wife and he was an alcoholic so I don't think the world would have missed him. I tried not to let on how much I hated him because I didn't want him to think the same of me. I would tell him that I would risk my life for him and all that but really, there was no way I was going to take a bullet for him. In fact, I was more worried that he might shoot me in the back one day and rob the truck. He didn't seem like the kind of guy that had a lot to lose.
 
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I plan on shooting a lot if I am shot at so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo.
END QUOTE

I hope you never get shot at because your spraying rounds out indiscriminately will get people hurt. You should plan on shooting as little as possible and making the round count. Not spraying and praying.
Pat
 
Only thing I can think to add here is don't carry any ammo in your handgun that can penetrate your own bodyarmour, if you wear one.
 
"I hope you never get shot at because your spraying rounds out indiscriminately will get people hurt. You should plan on shooting as little as possible and making the round count. Not spraying and praying.
Pat"

I could care less if someone gets hit by a stray bullet if I am fighting for my life. If there is shooting going on, they should be taking cover not watching the show anyway. If they get hit, I will feel bad but if spraying the area with bullets saves my ass, that is what I am going to do. My life is more important to me than anyone else's life. That is just the way it is. If 20 have to die so that I can live, I would have no problem with that.

I don't work in that job anymore and it is probably a good thing. If I ever did get in a gunfight, I would spray lead ALL OVER THE PLACE! I would probably get sued in civil court by the people I hit but I won't be dead and I probably wouldn't even go to jail. If I have to be poor for the rest of my long life, that is fine as well. I am just being honest. I would try to hit the guys shooting at me but I wouldn't try to take them out with one well aimed shot. It would probably happen so fast that I would be lucky to clear leather anyway. If I did, I don't want to go down with ammo still in my gun.
 
If your serious someone needs to take your gun. Your liable for every bullet you fire. And if your endangering others to save your own neck your have some moral re-evaluation to do and perhaps you should change lines of work. Everyone who carries a gun has a responsibility to be sure of their target as well as their surroundings before firing even when facing death. Besides the men I have known who have been in gunfights won because they kept their cool and placed their shots. If you panic your dead. You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight. Shot placement is what wins. Not making a lot of loud noise.
Pat
 
Hey, Rick, you are in one of the enlightened LF branches that allows autos. The truck is awfully familiar, a former Wells Fargo Armored International, isn't it? The gunport and side light give it away...
I had a very similar situation in Nogales a long time ago, with a 16/17 year old kid pretending to rob me, and I drew before I realized he was holding his hands together yelling "Bang!". He stared right down the bore of the Witness 40, and didn't faze him in the least...walked away laughing.
I left the business a couple of years after that.
 
armoredman I have been working for LF for two years now. Since I've been here, Huntsville AL the entire division (AL, MS, FL GA) can carry autos. I don't know if it is just my area or the entire country. Glocks and the Springfield XD was just approved for carry about a year ago. Up until that time I carried a PO-1 as a driver and a Sig 220 as messenger. Yes the truck is an old Wells Fargo truck. She is a good truck, just needs the shocks replaced. The division lost prevention officer stopped by yesterday, he was doing a surveillance on one of the fed routes out of Birmingham. I told him the story and he said I should of have had him arrested. I agree with him but on Mondays I don't have a minute to spare on the route, lucky day for him. Rick
 
Albanian

Man, your last post was pretty over-the-top. :eek: I know you have to look out for #1 but I'd feel bad if I hit somebody in crossfire.
 
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