Has DA/SA gone out of style?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by rjk2475, Jun 6, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Within the lightning of realization
    As a longtime revolver and 1911 shooter, I quickly acclimated to the traditional double action (DA/SA). I liked the initial DA trigger, and found it easy to transition to the subsequent shorter, lighter and faster SA trigger press, especially for fast shot strings. Perhaps if I'd started my handgunning skillset only as a plastic striker-fired shooter, I might've felt differently.

    The significant bulk of my service revolver training was all done in DA, although some of the slower precision shots out at 50yds were occasionally allowed, depending on the course-of-fire. Cocking service revolvers into SA in high stress situations occasionally resulted in some tragic ND's in earlier times, which was the driving force for some agencies requiring DAO revolvers, so they couldn't be thumb-cocked in SA with a light (3lbs) trigger.

    I still favor my 3rd gen S&W's as my "go to" retirement CCW choices ... if I'm not carrying one of my DA or DAO revolvers. I certainly logged enough tens of thousands of rounds through them since I began carrying an issued one in '90.

    As has already been mentioned by someone else in this thread, I also grew to favor the original P99 action, which offers DA/SA (if the striker firing pin is decocked via the decocking button after the slide is cycled to chamber a round). I ordered a couple of the licensed S&W versions, the SW99, after I started attending some armorer classes for them and carrying an issued one at work for a while. Between my own SW9940 (4.1"/.40) and SW999c (3.5"/9), my issued SW9940 and some others in the inventory, I've put a few tens of thousands of rounds downrange through those, too. Nice guns.

    The days of the striker-fired service pistol are upon us, though. Simpler for gun makers to produce, and simpler to train new (or average) users to reach whatever is considered an acceptable level of competency by the agency handing out the guns. Generally simpler to repair and support, too.

    I remember when the DA revolver was the "standard", and cops were expected to learn to run them hard and accurately, in DA. History.
     
    JJFitch, UncleEd and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  2. WheelGunMan

    WheelGunMan Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,282
    Location:
    U S A
    I own two, an H&K P30 V3 and a P30SK V3. I've had the P30 in rotation with my Sig P365XL and found myself picking the P30SK up more often than not. I find the long, heavy trigger pull a benefit as it gives me moments hesitation to change my mind on whether or not to shoot. I do find it to be accurate in both single action and double action. I've read a lot of hyperbole on trigger pull and reset, but I think if it ever comes to that "moment" it will all go to the wayside.

    The defining thing that struck me on the P30 and the P30SK is the comfort of it in my hand. With the +20 different grip combinations that it offers you're bound to find the one that suits your fancy. In my opinion, if a gun is extremely comfortable to hold onto, it will be very comfortable to shoot accurately. YMMV
     
    JR24, GeoDudeFlorida and guyfromohio like this.
  3. X62503

    X62503 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2019
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    Vermont, U.S.A.
    It may be good advice for some. Here’s my carry pistol. I also have a Glock 21 and a 1911 that I enjoy.

    3EF8F033-A85A-4803-BA6C-88D84C7450C4.jpeg
     
    Old Dog, GeoDudeFlorida and JR24 like this.
  4. JR24

    JR24 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,488
    Location:
    Upper Midwest
    I wish my back would tolerate my 226 as an EDC again. What a solid gun.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida and sigarms228 like this.
  5. 18DAI

    18DAI Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,065
    Out of style? Not for those who know how to work a trigger and shoot. Regards 18DAI
     
    trackskippy, UncleEd, gc70 and 2 others like this.
  6. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    2,930
    Gun Style come back like fashion.

    what’s making a comeback is Revolver! I’m definitely get on board before that ship sails!

    Just imagine seeing a sea of 6&8 shooters on the hips at the next BBQ!
     
  7. rjk2475

    rjk2475 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    what’s making a comeback is Revolvers!

    didn't know that; the only revolver I retained is a mdl 15-2 S&W masterpiece; excellent shooter but only 6 38s.
     
    Mark_Mark and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  8. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,235
    I like da/sa. Have many. But I do believe there are better SD choices 20190402_142701.jpg

    That's a normal range day.

    I carry Glock.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida and JR24 like this.
  9. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    5,115
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    I think you're asking this question about 15 years too late.

    Nothing wrong with a DA/SA - I own a lot of them, but yes, they are more assuredly out of style. And I'd say for good reason. I do think striker fired is a better design - or a partially cocked bobbed hammer with the same mindset a la the Walther Creed or Beretta PX4 Type C. That doesn't make a DA/SA bad or useless just not the current preferred platform.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  10. Tirod

    Tirod Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,995
    Location:
    SW MO
    Polymer and striker aren't necessarily joined at the hip. Striker fired guns have incorporated semi DA type trigger pulls in the past - the early versions of some were halfway precocked, pull the trigger finished and released the striker. Now a lot of them are fully cocked and the trigger ONLY releases them, making them SA - and without a safe action trigger, there is none, AKA SIG P365. So some of us have been adding it as it was part of the design all along and only shipped with safety to certain restrictive states. That makes it a SA with safety - much like a 1911.

    Strikers are just longer firing pins with the spring wrapped round it rather than adding a transfer device powered by a spring that strikes the end of the firing pin, ie, a hammer.

    Confused yet?

    And some striker fired guns will cock the striker fully then release it, same as some hammer fired guns. Throw in all our stereotypes about revolvers, too. Hammer fired no safety is different than striker fired no safety? We tend to draw the line at trigger weight, which is a line in the sand being blown away by the winds of time.

    Maybe we should have carried revolvers cocked on safe, rather than with the hammer down resting on the primer? If that gets you to thinking, good, there is too much compartmentalization and segregation with all this, one tribal group vs the others. What we are dealing with is a bullet launcher with options about how to hit the primer, and options about how the trigger should work. When you start listing them all, they have made them all. What you decide is what you are comfortable with - so go for it. A 2.5 pound trigger with no safety? Some do. A 8 pound trigger with safety? Close to standard military, no choice. Pre cocked vs trigger cocked? Start tying trigger weight to carry purpose and add the necessary level of safety for the conditions you meet, then make your choice. I'm sure not going to tell everyone what is their optimum, unless they show up at the lumber yard with a Chevette trying to take a pallet of plywood home. And who has that kind of money these days?

    Brings up my old mantra, What range what target? A self defense weapon against live aggressors (like whitetail, those vicious backstabbing thugs) is entirely different than one for inanimate paper targets dancing around on deranged garage door openers. It's good for practice, but not necessary a good end result to use a target .22 vs a 9mm and up with slick sights that can't snag. An 18" center of mass hit that delivers incapacitation isn't a great score in a competition counting 4" 9's and up.

    Work backwards from the target at the range you expect to see in the worst case situation, then you narrow to what cartridge, what features on the weapon, etc. We as a gun community are highly prone to focusing on the gun first, instead of what we are trying to accomplish, and then choosing what does the job. We use guns to put rounds on target, so, what range, what target?
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  11. rjk2475

    rjk2475 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    Tirod: So, for reliability, consistent trigger, and baseball size accuracy out to 20 yards, what are good strikers to consider?
     
  12. JR24

    JR24 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,488
    Location:
    Upper Midwest
    I will say this, I reload all my ammo these days and have noticed some primers, notably Winchester, have some issues with not discharging with strikers. I've seen it with Glocks, multiple generations, and a Beretta APX. Clean striker channels, good dimple, not a light strike. Second strike in the same gun, no dice.

    Those same rounds, picked up and put in a 1911 (or my Wilson EDC X9) or Sig Hammer gun (226, 228) and they've popped off just fine on a second strike. Once I observed this I grabbed a bunch of my "dud primer, needs to be pulled" bullets and ran them fine.

    Never been an issue with factory ammo, and it's probably something with my primer seating, and not a dig on strikers or anything, just an observation. Kinda like luck of the draw (probably) that my 226 is my only gun with 5K+ rounds through it without a single failure of any kind.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  13. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,793
    Location:
    NW Florida
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  14. rjk2475

    rjk2475 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    541
    That's a really good video to think on.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  15. somethingbenign

    somethingbenign Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    844
    I do really appreciate a bunch that Langdon has put out. Never heard the thing about hammers being more accurate than strikers. That just about build quality and maybe metal vs poly frame? I find it had to believe that how the spring is acting on the firing pin making that much of a difference.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  16. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,332
    Location:
    Denham Springs LA
    Many guns go out of style, but it’s not because they are not good or something better has come out. Most often it is due to tactical advantage.
    You also need to know what makes something popular and then later on unpopular. Foe years major gun manufacturers competed for the law enforcement market. The plus side here was that they would be able to sell large quantities of guns. The other plus was that many civilians would buy the guns that law enforcement were buying.
    When law enforcement started getting away from revolver, upper management was worried about officers having trouble making the transition. It was around the late 70s early 80s that most departments started switching to auto. Now DA/SA was not new to the market, but many manufacturers started building or making upgrades to DA/SA pistols, and targeted the LE market. The DA/SA autos had triggers that were pretty close to the revolvers they were use to. This made transition pretty easy. And there was also the tactical advantage over the revolver. Higher round capacity, and faster reloads.
    It wasn’t until the late 90s and early 2000s that large numbers of law enforcement agencies started going to strike fire guns. This was not because they were better, but they had a tactical advantage. By this time there were many new officers that had little to no experience with revolvers. So there was no longer the transition problem. The tactical advantage was more on the training side. Training new officers on strike fire pistols was much easier. But don’t forget that by the early 2000s most of the upper management in LE had been carrying Autos for a few years. Many departments went to strike fire pistols shortly after the older firearms trainers for a department retired. The newer trainers saw the advantage of going to strike fire pistols.
    Now I know a lot of older guys that prefer a DA/SA gun, because that is what they were trained on. You will find that the guys that were trained on striker fire prefer strike fire pistols.
    As the market for striker fire pistols grew, manufacturers put more money into designing new SF pistols and less into DA/SA pistols.
    Now there are some other things that have effected the market and I could go on and on. But just because a type of gun is not in style doesn’t make it a poor choice. Don’t listen to those guys that think, if you’re not shooting the type of gun that they are shooting, you’re shooting the wrong gun. It comes down to preference and what you are comfortable with.
     
    Old Dog, JR24, UncleEd and 1 other person like this.
  17. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,332
    Location:
    Denham Springs LA
    Some people feel the need to justify why they like something better. People that have never fired pistols or only shoot DA/SA would agree with him.
     
    JR24 and GeoDudeFlorida like this.
  18. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,793
    Location:
    NW Florida
  19. JR24

    JR24 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,488
    Location:
    Upper Midwest
    I have recently switched my carry gun to DA/SA from striker, from SAO.

    Then again, my first two guns were DA/SA so I guess I kinda learned on that, but didn't really get serious about learning to shoot until I had a striker and a 1911
     
  20. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,332
    Location:
    Denham Springs LA
    Nope, didn’t leave anything out.
    There are thousands of police officers that carry striker fire pistols. You hardly ever hear about one of them accidentally firing their weapon. But I do remember a few years back when a female officer was covering a perp while her partner was cuffing him. The female officer accidentally fired her pistol, hitting the ground next to the perp. And guess what gun she had. A Beretta 92.
    Like I always say. There are a lot of people that know a lot about things that they know very little about. Most people have never pointed their carry gun at anything other then paper targets. I’ve done a lot of that, but I’ve also had my gun pointed at real people, several times due to my profession. There are several members here that have done the same in the line of duty.
    But if someone chooses a DA/SA for carry because they are worried about an accidental discharge, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s important to be comfortable and confident with the gun you carry.
    It’s the guy that tells people what they should do just based on what he thinks might happen, but has no real world knowledge, get no brownie points from me.
     
    WrongHanded and JR24 like this.
  21. JTQ

    JTQ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,793
    Location:
    NW Florida
    I didn't think so, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
     
    9mmepiphany likes this.
  22. Zendude

    Zendude Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,705
    Location:
    Texas
    DA/SA is going “out of style” if it’s based on the sales and production numbers compared to the Glock style striker system. However, that certainly doesn’t mean that DA/SA hammer guns are obsolete.
     
    GeoDudeFlorida likes this.
  23. gc70

    gc70 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I took what Langdon said to mean that a lighter trigger pull (i.e. 4-lb hammer-fired SA) was inherently more accurate than a heavier trigger pull (i.e. 5.5-lb striker-fired).
     
  24. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    2,930
    oooh yeah! my LGS can’t keep them on the shelves.
     
  25. tjmga

    tjmga Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    West Michigan
    Evidently I did not get the memo, I just bought my third SA/DA handgun, and it was in .40 S&W just like the other two. I sold two stryker fired handguns and about to sell a third. I guess I will soon be standing out alone with the wrong gun in the wrong caliber. Good thing my choices are made by me. The choices I made was Sig P226, 229, 239, all outdated just like me. Color me happy.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice