Heated arguement about concealed carry

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My question is how You were able to buy a Hand Gun when Federal Law says You must be 21?
I got this out of My BATF Book.
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The Federal law only says that an FFL may only transfer a handgun to a person who is 21 years or older. Federal law limits the private sale, gift or other non-FFL transfer of a handgun to persons 18 years or older:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
18 USC 922 (x):

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
 
There's quite a few videos online where robbers walk in on unarmed people who comply and are then executed.

Show them a few of those.

Also some news reports about them, but less shocking.
 
However, second issue: he's not going to get it from you. Fair or not, like it or not, parental units (of which I am one) have a tendency to get very deaf when their offspring try to teach them something.
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Exactly. And, his attitude is (once again) something you can't control. But, I will say that I have found (with my father especially) that not arguing, and not changing my ways brings him around quicker than anything. Oddly it still hasn't helped on carrying, and I'm 43, but on other issues it almost seems to me that if I don't NEED his approval he's more apt to grant it. Maybe a quirk with my dad, but if it is just a quirk it's not a quirk with JUST my dad.

In the mean time, his house = his rules. Respect his property rights as you would those of anyone else.

Once again - good luck.
 
Wait a minute. Where are you legally allowed to carry at 18? I'm a "dumb teenager" that I'm "endangering other people by having a concealed firearm
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my thought too you have to be 21 in FL FOR A HAND GUN

IF THE LATER IS TRUE we must have a lot of dumb teenagers fighting for this country now days. as most of out fighting guys and girls are 18 and up. sounds like STEP DAD IS A wont go there here wouldn't be THR;)

IF MOM TRUMPS STEP DAD DONT ASK DONT TELL
 
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I was not aware an 18y/o could carry a handgun, but let's say you can do it.

Being 18y/o you are honestly not as smart or rational as you think you are, sorry you are young and lack experience. You might find yourself at a kegger with the local gang bangers and since you told everyone you have a ccw they decide to bum rush you and rob you or your trusty gun. You end up blasting some idiots and getting charged with murder because the party was mostly their friends and not yours. It has happened.

Carrying a gun does mean you have to be a better person, more aware of where you go and what you do. It also means keeping your mouth shut about your carry status. Putting yourself in positions where you have to draw is not a good idea. No teasing road ragers or street gangs, no hanging with scummy friends, keep yourself out of trouble. Most of all it means you need to practice with your firearm until you are halfway decent and able to operate the gun when your hands are shaking and your nerves are ready to fold you up.

The chances you ever have to draw a weapon are close to zero. The chance you will have to fire are about 1 in 20. According to most stats and in my personal experience, once guns are drawn even the most persistant criminal reconsiders quickly. But, there is the one guy who won't back off and he is ready to trade bullets. Thats the guy you are training for and trying to avoid at the same time.

Your step father is an idiot by the way. Since your mom saw fit to marry an idiot you have to abide him as long as you live under their roof. I'd save money and move myself. I left home the day after high school graduation and never returned, it worked fine for me and my folks didn't complain. A guy with a gun will not opt for a knife, thats just stupid. Could you shoot an unarmed person or God forbid a bystander, yes. But, that is so rare as to be nearly unheard of in shootings, even in those wild police gunfights you see once a year.

The armed private citizen kills ten times more criminals annually than the cops, according to the DoJ. Cops by the way average 10-20 times the number of criminals compared to the number of cops killed by criminals. What does this mean?

The person who is better trained and more aware typically ends up on the winning side in a fight.
 
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CHEVELLE427 said:
my thought too you have to be 21 in FL FOR A HAND GUN
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Except for carrying concealed on the person, the age limit is 18 in Florida:

http://www.flsenate.gov/STATUTES/in...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.25.html

(5)

POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
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The vehicle exception above is only one of many exceptions in Florida. The age limit for private sales/gifts of handguns is 18 as well.
 
lonegunman

lonegunman,

I guess you would be against 18 year old persons being allowed to enter the military who choose to serve their country?

Interesting to note that more than 60% of the persons responsible for transporting nuclear missiles are 18 to 22 years old:
http://www.11alive.com/rss/rss_story.aspx?storyid=153559

ST. MARYS, Ga. (AP) - Congressman Jack Kingston says there is support among military leaders for proposed legislation to allow service members under 21 to drink beer and wine at base restaurants and clubs.

Kingston says military brass are reluctant to publicly express their opinion, but that they unofficially agree with the proposal.

Kingston says he plans to hold public meetings on the issue. The legislation would prohibit the consumption of alcohol anywhere other than designated establishments on bases.

Kingston says about 60 percent of sailors serving on nuclear submarines are between the ages of 18 and 22 and active-duty soldiers have a 90 percent chance of being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan.
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I was the unit armorer for my national guard unit at the age of 18 in charge of 200 M-16's, 20 M-60 .30 Cal Machine Guns, and 8 or so .50 Cal M-2's, and around 20 M1911s. Not to mention M-203 grenade launchers, and if we ever went on active duty in combat, all kinds of grenades and Claymore anti-personnel mines.
 
No personal offense intended with this comment, but his best argument would be that you are "a dumb teenager".

When you become 18 it does not magically turn you into a mature adult who will act responsibly with a firearm. It takes maturity and experience, not a date on the calender.
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Sorry but I can't leave that one go without comment - I have seen way to many older adults who seem to never grow up to not remind you that those dumb teenagers have been on the forefront of our military since we have maintained a standing army.

I can attest to the fact that when it comes to handling firearms and using them against another human being to protect yourself, that there are many 18 and 19 year old teenagers who have a hell of a lot of experience. If our society treats 18 year olds as kids , then what justification do we have to sending our kids to fight and die for us ?
 
First- Concealed means concealed. Don't discuss your carry with anyone. You don't carry a firearm, you aren't armed, it doesn't exist, it stays hidden from view.

Second-You will not win in a discussion with a person who uses emotionally based arguments. They don't have to deal with or accept reality and they can create any outlandish scenario in their head that they want or demand proof of negatives. Don't bring up the subject, or if it comes up, change the subject or let it drop. If they tell you not to carry, say "OK, then I won't carry" then do as you wish and then you are no longer carrying and the problem takes care of itself (see One, above).

Trust me, I have dealt with an entire family of rabid hoplophobes for 30 years. My wife is the only one of her entire blood line that has TOUCHED a firearm and that took about 29 years to make it happen. We are now shooting buddies. And she WON'T shoot anywhere but COM on a bad guy (and they'll probably go where she aims them-she's been a good student).
 
the age discussion really p* me off. (and i'm 43 btw).
In world war II, a lot of a RAF bomber command pilots were about 17. These boys were allowed to fly 4 engined heavy bombers to Germany at night with a possible chance of being shot down of 7% (100% in 15 missions).
After landing, they weren't allowed to visit pubs, see women, drive a car or vote (al of wich you had to be 21). But I think it is not the age discussion around here.
 
On the face there would seem to be a certain logic, much like the oft repeated, reputed old Chinese proverb about rape, relax and try to enjoy it, it will be over sooner. A pacifistic view, of giving this person what they request in a transactional sort of logic, you cave into their command in the face of superior threat, and they only use threat, and not violence.


Here is the BUT

what happens when they don't get what they want??
what happens when what they as for isn't what they really want and just a ruse???
what happens when they decide to 'violate' this 'agreement' that the pacifist is putting their trust in.


A good person isn't going to be doing such bad acts
that leaves a bad person, and this is a person who is already violating social covenants.

what is to stop them from raping you, beating you, killing you, just for fun....

OH and they make one less person to tell on them to 'authority'; who may or may not do something about it...

Yeah, sorry I believe I will live meekly and carry a gun...

BTW, by 17 I was already in the army, able to die for my country, but it was illegal for me to even smoke the cigarettes I was buying with the convenient green piece of ID, lets not talk of drinking, age has little to do with responsibility, if it did, then cartoons and video games wouldn't be marketed for the 30+ crowd.
 
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So there's been some talk about maturity and whatnot. Part of that discussion does involve the kind of self control and good judgement an 18-yr-old might have, and part of it involves the lifestyle of a teenager. It's natural to wonder if our young gun owner is mature enough...

Now I have dinner at my moms place tonight and I start talking about my concealed pistol.
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There's the answer right there. Your pistol is not dinner conversation, and certainly not with people whom you know are not crazy about a teenage kid running around with one. Sounds to me like you're all pumped up, all psyched to be carrying, etc. Recipe for pure trouble.
 
young man i believe you are right

and seem mature enough to me. that said its hard for a parent to stop thinking of you as more than an infant. keep being who you are and try to forgive them and understand what motivates em. they are probably making a mistake but they can't see it now. someday maybe you can do a lil better. but if when its your kid if you act the same way and you might. don't be too hard on yourself. you see i can say all that about you being mature enough but i suspect if you were mine? i might not be able to say the same thing.

in my case i was in my mid 30's before my dad saw me as an adult and i left home at 15
 
California, Nevada, Arizona, Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Montana, Wyoming, Louisiana, Missouri, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, AND Alaska.
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No, not in Arizona you have to be 21 to conceal carry. Its questionable he could open carry a hand gun since its illegal for him to buy ammo. He could open carry a rifle with no problem. But we are talking concealed carry and that would not be legal.
 
Right. Most of those states do NOT allow concealed carry of a handgun by persons under 21 years of age.

Getting back to the OP's queries, I would suggest not bothering to argue with your stepfather over the issue of concealed carry validity. It is obviously a topic about which he has already made up his mind. Given that he sees you as endangering yourself and others simply by carrying, I doubt he is going to change his mind short of you saving him from a violent attacker with your gun.
 
Don't worry Sxechainsaw.

You've met and will continue to meet lots of folks who are unwilling to admit that you're more mature at the age of 18 than they were.

You'll also meet folks who have a deep seeded fear of firearms mainly because they don't trust 'themselves' with them. They'll do their best to try and heap that same inadequacy upon you. It helps them to get through life by rationalizing that their lack of self control is normal therefore, since they can't picture themselves as a responsible gun owner, no one else can be either.

Age certainly plays a part in maturity but I've met quite a few 18 year olds who were more rational and level headed than a lot of 50 year olds that I know.
 
The OP brought up conversation about his pistol with his MOTHER. I don't know about most of you, but immediate family tends to talk about everything at the table. If he's supposed to be tight-lipped in public (which I agree with), then who is it OK to talk to if not his mother. This showed NO lack of maturity.

I'm 39, and I can remember being 18 and seeing many idiots my age that were not responsible enough to carry. I see the same thing with my current age group!!!!

If it is legal for him to carry, then your postulations on his maturity are likely your projections on him, and not based on anything he's brought up in this thread.
 
With rare exceptions, 18 year olds do not have the maturity, judgement, experience or temperment to be carrying a gun unsupervised. Or drink alcohol. Many of them have no business even driving.

From Shockwave:

There's the answer right there. Your pistol is not dinner conversation, and certainly not with people whom you know are not crazy about a teenage kid running around with one. Sounds to me like you're all pumped up, all psyched to be carrying, etc. Recipe for pure trouble.
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He is exactly right.

From NavyLT

I guess you would be against 18 year old persons being allowed to enter the military who choose to serve their country?

Interesting to note that more than 60% of the persons responsible for transporting nuclear missiles are 18 to 22 years old:
http://www.11alive.com/rss/rss_story...storyid=153559
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This argument is used often. It is bogus, the reasons are control and supervision.

Military service is honorable, but it does not make one an adult. The military allows no one unsupervised access to weapons. Especially 18 year olds. They dictate what weapons, when they are allowed and issued, how they are used, and they always supervise. They know full well that in general young people have no business with guns (or booze) until they are trained and supervised. Try to use your concealed carry permit on a military base. Even in combat they try hard to ensure no one goes armed but unsupervised.

(We often used to joke that the reason the military wanted us 18 year olds is because we were the only ones immature and dumb enough to do some of what the military orders. True? I wonder. )

To the OP: Carry may be legal for you as an 18 year old, but it's not wise. Spend the next few years working on your maturity and judgement, your schooling, and your grammer. You'll have plenty of time for guns later, and you'll enjoy them more.
 
quick responses for people who are intentionally stubborn.....

1.) " yeah, because there have never been random acts of violence........oh wait a minute....wasnt there something that happened at VT and Columbine....a while back.....according to your logic everyone there was packing"


2.) " its my money/ possessions....why should i just hand it over to some crackhead because he demanded it...."


this one usually works....even if they wont admit it....

3.) " ok...so if someone came in here and started shooting up the place.....would you want me/ or someone else to have a gun?"


when they bring up the fact that guns make people more prone to violence...

4.) "so if i put a gun in your hands right now.....are you going to go shoot someone with it........didnt think so........so why do you feel that everyone else would?"
 
I debated with myself for quite a while before deciding to answer.

First the OP talking to his mother and step-father about his carry piece was not an act of immaturity. Family are the ones you are supposed to talk to. They should know you carry and that it is not something to discuss except in private, such as at home around the dinner table.

Second, I don't know the OP so I cannot offer an informed opinion regarding the level of his maturity. However, I can opine that blanket statements such as "18 year olds are too immature to carry" are not based on rational evaluation of the OPs levels of emotional maturity but rather on a knee jerk emotional reaction without foundational merit.

As to military personnel carrying. I was given my first M-14 at 17. M-16 at 18. At 18 1/2 I was not supervised, I WAS the supervisor (squad leader). Conditions such as we found ourselves in back in the early/mid 60s forced you to grow up fast. I'm now 64 and don't consider myself any more capable today than I was in 1964.

Now, to the OP. I have been accused (rightly, in the opinion of many) of being a manipulative SOB, so take this with a grain of salt. Had I been challenged regarding my choice to carry as you were, I would have asked if my step-father did not believe my life was worth protecting. And, on the other hand, had I been his biological child, would his opinion have been different?

But that is just me. :)
 
gbw said:
The military allows no one unsupervised access to weapons. Especially 18 year olds. They dictate what weapons, when they are allowed and issued, how they are used, and they always supervise. They know full well that in general young people have no business with guns (or booze) until they are trained and supervised. Try to use your concealed carry permit on a military base. Even in combat they try hard to ensure no one goes armed but unsupervised.
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I must respectfully disagree, having 26 years of military experience. When a young sailor or soldier heads off to Afghanistan or Iraq the military issues them an M-4 or M-9 and ammo. They carry that gun with them 24/7, in all situations, supervised and not. Then, hopefully 1 year later, when they come back, they turn that M-9 or M-4 back into the armory. The military has no problems handing an 18 year a gun and saying, this is yours - you care for it - you are responsible for it - everywhere you go - your barracks, the chow hall, on patrol, at training. Obviously speaking of the deployed environment here. I know. I've been there.
 
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