Help turn a pansy lib into a gun nut!

[nutter]

Pat,

I'm in the Bay Area also.

Forgive my reticence, but I'm not quite ready to meet armed strangers from the internet yet. Though I do like the idea of meeting some folks with similar interests, so maybe in the near future I'll be open to it.

Thanks.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

First thing to do is take the NRA class "personal protection in the home".(You can find an instructor through the NRA's website) Then you can pick your gun.

but for my very first purchase I think a handgun would give me the most utility.

In most states, it probably would. But you live in California, so getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon is probably not going to happen there.

Rifles are easier to aim, and are usually more powerful, even with handgun ammunition.(The longer barrel gives the bullet more velocity.)

If you want a rifle that will shoot the same ammunition as your handgun, I'd say get a 9mm carbine.
Even if you do get this, you should still get a bolt-action .22 for practice.

For handguns, I'd get a .22 handgun and a 9mm handgun. If you could only have one, get the 9mm. It is cheap, and the recoil isn't too bad, even out of lighter weight guns.

 

[pbhome71]

Nutter,

Forgive my reticence, but I'm not quite ready to meet armed strangers from the internet yet. Though I do like the idea of meeting some folks with similar interests, so maybe in the near future I'll be open to it.

No problem. When you ready, let me know. You can bring your friends. I'll bring mines.
The more the merrier. We usually go to either Los Altos R&G, or Sunnyvale R&G. I haven't been there in ages (way too busy at work, and at home.)

Who knows, I might actually be in a cubicle next to you. LOL.

In the mean time, regarding reading material. When I was looking for my first gun - a Glock 19, I was reading a rec.guns a lot (this was the days when we are using netnews a lot).
http://www.recguns.com/
You may find that it is an interesting site. Many of the materials are old, but the fundamental is still valid.

For a class, I think there is a class that you can attend at Reed's Indoor range. The class is NRA certified and is $125.00. That include handgun certificate. You may want to give them a call.

Good Luck,

-Pat

 

[caseypj]

I'd consider taking a Hunter Safety Class, I'm sure the state of California runs some.

 

[clevland11]

If your willing to buy used, there are plenty of ~$300 9mm handguns out there.

A few to consider:


A Sig P6/255

Which is exceptionally reliable and accurate.

A Glock 19

Which is also reliable and accurate, albeit with a plastic frame. You might even be able to find a new one for around $400.

Or maybe a SW99

Good luck with your search.

 

[MikePGS]

Hey Nutter, welcome to the forum. While it would be ideal for everyone to start with a .22, its not really going to happen if you can only afford one gun atm. Are you sure the fees are going to be as high as you think they are? I mean I live in an entirely different state but its free to get a gun permit here, you just have to have it notarized (something your local bank can often do for free, if your a member). Maybe you can afford something in the 400 dollar range provided the fees aren't as high as you think. You might be able to get a good new gun, or a great used gun. A CZ75 might be a great choice, but they might be a bit more than your looking to spend (haven't priced them in some time). Like many have suggested, you very well might live near another THR member who is more than willing to give you advice and or let you try a couple of guns to see what you like. Either way, welcome to the forum your definitely in the right place to have all of your questions answered.

 

[Samgotit]

I judge a person based on three criteria:

1. How a person treats a waiter in a restaurant.

2. How a person uses a cell phone; i.e, does he answer during a personal conversation; does she scream into the cell phone, disregarding others around; does a person consider their cell phone a decoration or source of pride.

3. The ability to think rationally.

On the internet, I can only go by 3. You seem to do it very well.

Get a 9mm or a .22 handgun. Looks like you will have no trouble educating yourself how to use it safely and properly.

 

[John Wayne]

You may also want to consider frame material: Pistols are typically made with either steel, alloy, or polymer frames.

Steel will be the heaviest, and most durable. It usually means the gun recoils less because of the added weight.

An alloy frame such as aluminum or titanium, saves weight and resists corrosion (which shouldn't be a problem anyway if you do any maintenance on a semi-regular basis and don't live in a jungle). It will be lighter, but typically less durable than steel in the long run -- but you probably won't notice any difference between the two until after 20,000 rounds or so.

A polymer frame is made of, well, plastic with steel inserts at key wear points. It is the lightest of the frames and will not rust or corrode. It also does not conduct heat very well, an excellent thing if you plan on shooting in cold weather. Being the lightest, polymer guns tend to recoil more than their heavier steel counterparts.

Another point to consider is the trigger. Without writing a book, Double-Action-Only (DAO) triggers are good choices for defensive pistols, especially for beginners. They are typically heavier and longer, but easier to shoot well under stress, and the pull weight and length is exactly the same every time. One less thing for a new shooter to think about without fiddling with decockers, manual safeties, and exposed hammers. Again though, go with what you're comfortable with.

 

[SHusky57]

For home-protection, a shotgun, rifle, or carbine would be a better choice. Handguns are really inferior to all three except when it comes to concealability, which as you stated is not an option.

For your budget:
The SIG P6/P225 is great.

I would recommend saving up an extra $200 (really, $50 over 4 months) to get the gun you REALLY want. My personal preference is Beretta; but Glocks, M&Ps, XDs all retail for about $500 where I am from.

Also.... for $300.
You could get a home-defense shotgun (Mossberg Maverick 88 w/ 18" barrel = $179) and a .22 rifle (mossberg plinkster, marlin 60, ruger 10-22 $110-180). The Saiga .223 rifle is about $300, and .223 ammo is great for personal protection (see FBI penetration tests). http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/faq/bullet_penetration.php

But, since you REALLY want a handgun....
Try to find a surplus SIG P6. For $300, they are a great buy. I don't see a reason to settle on a Taurus, there are a lot of QC issues with them. Bersa Thunder 380 I have heard great reviews from. Used Glocks and Beretta's can be found for about $400.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

the o.p. mentions the desire to have a pistol-caliber carbine in the chambering of one of the handguns. perhaps this should be taken into account before his first purchase, and looking ahead buy a handgun that uses ammo that's the same as a carbine uses. several choices in chamberings for both semi-autos and wheelies.
IMO he should consider a .357 wheelie with an eye towards a lever gun in same chambering or a 9mm semi that shares magazine commonality with a carbine - again several choices. the Kel-Tec, HiPoint and Ruger among them.
don't rule out a .22LR as first gun IMO you can't go wrong there.
haveing a small caliber that you can shoot well every time when needed is preferred to haveing a magnum that you can't shoot worth a darn.
a good .22LR revolver or semi coupled with a good .22LR rifle is mighty handy when the chips may be down.

 

[TAB]

Since your in the bay area, you might want to give the hogue action pistol range a call. They have lots of matchs and clubs that call it home. I'm sure you will find several people out there willing to help you. as well as a list of instructors/ classes/ anything you want.

if you were in or around sac I'd offer to take you to the range myself.

 

[MT GUNNY]

Since you have taken the path of Clarity, the only logical advice is to pick your own firearm based on Common sense and Logic w/ research and few opinions of others. Not what someone else Tells you to pick.

IMHO I would look into the 1911 style pistol. Those Evil rifles are fun also.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

You might also enjoy the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program. It gives you some specific goals to work toward in your shooting. The lower levels are pretty easy, but I've found the Distinguished Expert rating in Bullseye Pistol to be plenty challenging.

I'll second this. Getting into the qualification program made my accuracy skyrocket. If you don't feel like doing that, I'd at least recommend shooting a fixed number (10 is easiest) of shots on a bullseye type target (the kind with numbered rings) over and over, counting your score on each one. Consistently set goals just out of reach of what you're currently capable of. Having something to focus on and having a way to quantify how well you are doing does wonders for getting the most out of your practice. It's done wonders for me. I got my Distinguished Expert about a year ago, and I'm still improving rapidly using these principles.

Something else to think of when looking at what pistol to get is whether or not there is a .22 conversion kit available for it. (these are replacement slides and/or barrels that allow you to shoot .22 out of what was originally a non-.22 gun) This would allow to you get a gun in an effective self-defense caliber now and start practicing, then when you get a little bit more money you can pick up a conversion kit for less than the cost of a new pistol and practice even more for less money. Also, since the conversion kits aren't legally firearms, you (probably, check CA law) won't have to go through all the rigamarole and paperwork to get one. You could just have it delivered to your house. I know there is a .22 kit called the Kadet for CZ pistols, several companies make them for 1911s, and I think for Glock's as well. There are likely many more that I haven't heard of, so do some looking around once you pick out your gun if that's the way you'd like to go.

 

[jordan1948]

I jist want to say welcome to the world of firearms and this forum..........wait I think they're kind of the same but in any case, I suggest a rifle or shotgun first then move to a pistol/handgun and remember the safety rules of firearms. Also even if your local range doesn't have a safety course you can always ask the range manager to help you, just tell him you're kind of new to firearms and that you'd like some help so that you can be a better safer shooter.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Glocks can be good for beginners, as can revolvers. They are both simple to use and reliable.

for less than the cost of a new pistol and practice even more for less money.

It depends on the conversion kit, and the gun you're comparing to. For instance, it's cheaper to buy certain ruger .22 pistols than some 1911 conversion kits.

 

[nutter]

The class at Reed's Indoor range looks like exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately I missed this month's offerings, and I'm out of town for next month's.

I have sent a note to the range recommended on the NRA site for local training asking about their classes. Hopefully I'll hear back soon.


The Sig and the CZ look like excellent guns. I will certainly take them under consideration. Thanks to everyone who's chimed in. I enjoy reading ALL the advice, so please, if you think there's anything I should know, keep posting!

 

[Walkalong]

I bet a very large percentage of us started with a .22 LR and then moved on to other things. It would be a great place to start and cheap to shoot. Practice makes perfect, and practice can get expensive these days.

There is plenty of literature on safe gun handling etc. Read up.

After that, just use plain old common sense. Be smart, be safe, be responsible, have fun.

 

[nutter]

I'd consider taking a Hunter Safety Class, I'm sure the state of California runs some.

No gun I own will ever be used for hunting. I'm a vegetarian!

I know I'm not the "usual sort" around here. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

 

[Agouti]

For $300 try for a cz-75, a cz-85 or a browning high power (argentina).

The cz-75 is HEAVILY based on the browning hi-power, and the cz-85 is the same thing as the cz-75, but with an ambidextrous slide release.

The browning hi-power, is, arguably, the greatest handgun in the world. It has a 13 (original) and 15 round mags, both of which fit flush. It has an internal slide, which gives it superior accuracy.
There's a variant in .40 cal if that's your preference, and the cz-97b is essentially a cz-75 chambered in a .45.

 

[shimniok]

Welcome! I grew up around guns but didn't get my first until I was in my late 20's and had to learn a few extra safety rules.

So, how do I go about becoming a responsible gun owner?

I can't speak to classes altho I would think you could ask at the gun range, local gun clubs (web search), maybe something NRA sponsored. I applaud you for thinking about this.

Also, learn the four safety rules. (http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html) or (NRA rules here: http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp)

I'd ask the question re: using a class firearm vs. your own.

And what gun should I pick?

Usually the advice is -- shoot whatever gun you can shoot well.

Getting the right gun is a little tricky. You might want to try several (once you learn basics of how to shoot).

Some guns are harder to shoot than others. Guns with a lot of recoil are harder to shoot accurately and are a lot to deal with as a new shooter, I think.

Recoil comes from either because of a powerful cartridge, big bullet, or lighter guns or a combo thereof.

I think a 1911 would be harder to control than other guns. But you should try several out (maybe you're near a range that rents guns). I think .45 ACP may be a little much for a new shooter. You might go with .40 S&W or 9mm (cheap so you can afford to practice a lot). If you go with a smaller caliber (.380, 9x18 Mak, .32 ACP, etc) it may come in a small enough gun that you get a lot of kick.

I think your best bet in terms of recoil and price is 9mm. I have been shooting 115g UMC ammo which I found to be fairly light recoil in the gun I'm using. You can work your way up to the heavier weight bullets and hotter factory loads later.

I would get a full size / full steel gun to reduce recoil.

Michael

 

[JDoe]

Just a few points to add...

1. 9 mm recoil isn't going to be an issue for you in anything from sub-compact and larger guns.

2. CCW in California is nearly impossible to get in the Bay area but you can get your Utah CCW and carry in dozens of states so keep that in mind when selecting your handgun.

3. California limits you to 10 round magazines and a lot of the 9 mm sub-compacts have at least a 10 round capacity so getting a bigger gun only makes it harder to CCW in other states with your Utah or Florida non-resident CCW permit.

4. Reeds has a good selection of rental guns and a helpful staff so you'll be able to try out a number of guns if you want before you buy.

Good luck and welcome to THR!

 

[BucksDC]

hello

Welcome Nutter,
Good luck with your collection. One gun is usually not enough.
You might find your political views change as you wade into the gun culture.
Let us know what you buy and include pics please

 

[ServiceSoon]

I really wish people wouldn't attack liberals; like conservatives are never wrong. My congressperson is a pro-gun Democrat. This is one right that is always under attack. Have fun and welcome to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) club.

 

[DaveBeal]

Something else to think of when looking at what pistol to get is whether or not there is a .22 conversion kit available for it.

Funny you should mention that, Irishman. I just finished reading an article about .22 conversions in the 2009 Annual Buyer's Guide of Handguns magazine. In addition to the CZ Kadet and conversions for Glocks, it also mentioned conversions for the Beretta 92 and of course, 1911s.

 

[longdayjake]

You want a handgun and you want it to be under or around $300. I don't know of any quality handguns of reasonable caliber for that small amount of money. Others have suggested that you get a rifle or a .22 to work with. Hmmm. Well, you could get the best of both worlds if you bought the new ruger 10/22 pistol. I think its called the 10/22 charger, but I am not sure. I can almost guarantee that it is the only .22 pistol that will most likely never give you a problem. Any other .22 pistol is a crap shoot as to whether or not you get a good reliable one. I own a walther p22 that sucks but my cousin's shoots flawlessly.

Also, if you are looking to avoid political backfires with your liberal friends, the new 10/22 almost looks like a piece of sculpture. You can tell them that you bought it because it looked pretty to you.