Labyrinth666
Member
Basically what the title states, which do you prefer? Or I guess if you prefer some crazy rocket shell with an acid-spitting cobra inside go ahead and post that too...
home defense- slugs vs. Buck shot
- Thread starter Labyrinth666
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RugerBob
Member
Buck shot. Covers a wide pattern in hallways and what not. I pertty much just have #8 shot for that purpose.
RSVP2RIP
Member
I suppose it depends alot on where you live. Most slugs will go a long way even if it goes through someone. If you live on a farm down south then thats fine, maybe even preferable as slugs have a reputable one shot stop record.. But being in the land of satan (Illinois) you had best only be shooting at someone who is a threat (read in your house). In that instance, buckshot might be a better choice. There are several loads that will all but guarente that all the pelets will land in a torso, and overpenetration will be less of a concern. Bird shot of any size is for emegencies only and I wouldn't use it unless it was all I had.
JamisJockey
member
Because you don't have to aim a shotgun, right?
:banghead:
Birdshot doesn't penetrate enough to stop a threat reliably. #8 is not buckshot. That is birdshot.
For the OP:
I use 00 Buckshot. At HD ranges, the small sized grouping of buck offers the biggest chances of stopping a threat immediately.
wnycollector
Member
00 buck in my shotgun with two low recoil slugs on the butt cuff...just in case.
Nugilum
Member
12 count 00 Buck
chuckusaret
member
I load my HD 12 ga with a BB chambered followed by 7 slugs in the magazine. Just me and my wife and walls can be repaired, but I don't intend to miss the BG on the first round fired.
mgkdrgn
Member
Buckshot ... I personally like #1.
The problem with slugs is that your neighbors won't like pickin them out of THEIR walls (pets, spouses, children, whatever) after your HD encounter.
The problem with slugs is that your neighbors won't like pickin them out of THEIR walls (pets, spouses, children, whatever) after your HD encounter.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Get some basic defensive shotgun training first. There are no hardware solutions to software problems.
Choose your ammo loadout based on your individual circumstances. Live in an apartment in an urban area? That will influence what you choose to use. Same as if you live in the middle of several acres in the country with the closest neighbor a half mile away.
Our situation here approximates the latter moreso than the former. We keep the house guns loaded with full velocity 00 buckshot, and keep Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddles. Except of course for the gun my wife prefers, which she carries when we go to visit her parents in western NC. They get the occasional nuisance bear up there, and her 870 is loaded with Brennekes with four more in the Sidesaddle.
It's a decision that needs to be based on personal training, experience, patterning and experimentation, not advice off the WWW. YOU are responsible for the results of your actions, not the anonymous strangers who gave you advice, whether it was good or bad.
fwiw,
lpl
Choose your ammo loadout based on your individual circumstances. Live in an apartment in an urban area? That will influence what you choose to use. Same as if you live in the middle of several acres in the country with the closest neighbor a half mile away.
Our situation here approximates the latter moreso than the former. We keep the house guns loaded with full velocity 00 buckshot, and keep Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddles. Except of course for the gun my wife prefers, which she carries when we go to visit her parents in western NC. They get the occasional nuisance bear up there, and her 870 is loaded with Brennekes with four more in the Sidesaddle.
It's a decision that needs to be based on personal training, experience, patterning and experimentation, not advice off the WWW. YOU are responsible for the results of your actions, not the anonymous strangers who gave you advice, whether it was good or bad.
fwiw,
lpl
AcceptableUserName
member
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Good ol' 00 buck. However, Slugs are preferable at ranges that are no longer labelled "self-defense" and suddenly become "prison-time".
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Be aware that using slugs for HD is like using .45-70; slugs will penetrate some things that even .308 won't. Just something to be aware of.
Titan6
member
Slugs work well for us but they are not for everybody. Where can I find some of the shells with the baby cobras inside? They sound awesome!
snooperman
Member
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I like buckshot
The wound channel and hence trauma to the body is much greater with buckshot within the confines of a home. Outside at 40-100 yards, that is where the slug is supreme. Because of its greater mass it will have greater carrying power at those distances and buckshot will lose velocity quickly beyond 30-40 yards and the shot pattern will be too large for effective use.
The wound channel and hence trauma to the body is much greater with buckshot within the confines of a home. Outside at 40-100 yards, that is where the slug is supreme. Because of its greater mass it will have greater carrying power at those distances and buckshot will lose velocity quickly beyond 30-40 yards and the shot pattern will be too large for effective use.
I prefer some crazy rocket shell with an acid-spitting cobra inside. That is naturally the best SD loading ever made. Just make sure to feed 'em a mouse or two every other week.
Seriously though, I alternate between 10 pellet 000 3" magnums or 15 pellet 00 3" magnums. Yes, they stop being "fun" to shoot after 3-4 shells out of an M500, but I figure in an HD situation, the amount of fun that a load will be will be the last of my concerns. I also keep the last two rounds of my 7 round tube with a 1oz and 1 3/8 oz slug. I figure if after 75 pellets of 00 buck COM someone is still coming at me, its time to up the ante, and hope sheer blunt trauma stops 'em.
Seriously though, I alternate between 10 pellet 000 3" magnums or 15 pellet 00 3" magnums. Yes, they stop being "fun" to shoot after 3-4 shells out of an M500, but I figure in an HD situation, the amount of fun that a load will be will be the last of my concerns. I also keep the last two rounds of my 7 round tube with a 1oz and 1 3/8 oz slug. I figure if after 75 pellets of 00 buck COM someone is still coming at me, its time to up the ante, and hope sheer blunt trauma stops 'em.
I personally can't decide between 00 buck and slugs so I load with some of each and keep some to spare in the shell holder on my Knoxx stock. I do live on a lot of land, if I had neighbors real close by then I would probabley just stick with buckshot, maybe even lighter that 00.
Youngster
Member
I like #4 buckshot for an indoor load, I've tested 4 buck against typical interior walls and all kinds of other media and I'm convinced that even if does somehow exit my place it ain't going to have much "juice" left.
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BADUNAME37
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I think you meant it's NOT going to have much "juice" left.
I know, I know.
Picky, picky.
That's why I'm an inspector.
Unless you've got hallways or rooms that are more than 30 yards long, I'm not even sure why you're considering slugs. Those suckers will go through multiple layers of sheetrock and plywood.
As a rule your shot will spread 1" for every yard travelled. Buckshot tends to hold together better than birdshot over distances. So even if you did have a hallway that was 30 yards long (seriously?), your shot pattern would only be around 30" in diameter. Now that's just slightly bigger than human sized and you're a heck of a lot more likely to actually hit your assailant with that than with something that is 1" in diameter. Remember, you're assailant will be moving (gasp!) more than a paper target.
For more rural areas, a lot of professionals recommend #4 buck or 00 buck because it's physically effective and less likely to hurt your non-existent neighbors. If you live in an apt building, you need to seriously consider your situation and figure out where that shot is likely to land when/if you miss with any of your shot. Remember you DON'T want to hurt your neighbor sleeping nextdoor or their cat.
There's more to this than just going to the store and picking up some ammo. So, my recommendation to you is to examine your home and imagine some scenarios where you'd need to fire your shotgun on an assailant to stop the lethal threat. There are two things you need to figure out:
1. What will my shotgun's pattern be at the distances I am considering?
2. What is the background beyond where my assailant might be in different situations?
Once you figure out #1, you need to go to the range with different shotshells and try them through your shotgun at those distances. Get a sense of the patterning to expect from different ammo at those distances. Then use #2 to make a decision on ammo based on what humans/animals or other highly valuable things lay beyond your assailant. If there are humans beyond those walls, then you might consider #8 birdshot. It will still do the job of inflicting simultaneous nerve shock.
And as Lee Lapin said, take a shotgun course. Even a 1-dayer will be really beneficial.
As a rule your shot will spread 1" for every yard travelled. Buckshot tends to hold together better than birdshot over distances. So even if you did have a hallway that was 30 yards long (seriously?), your shot pattern would only be around 30" in diameter. Now that's just slightly bigger than human sized and you're a heck of a lot more likely to actually hit your assailant with that than with something that is 1" in diameter. Remember, you're assailant will be moving (gasp!) more than a paper target.
For more rural areas, a lot of professionals recommend #4 buck or 00 buck because it's physically effective and less likely to hurt your non-existent neighbors. If you live in an apt building, you need to seriously consider your situation and figure out where that shot is likely to land when/if you miss with any of your shot. Remember you DON'T want to hurt your neighbor sleeping nextdoor or their cat.
There's more to this than just going to the store and picking up some ammo. So, my recommendation to you is to examine your home and imagine some scenarios where you'd need to fire your shotgun on an assailant to stop the lethal threat. There are two things you need to figure out:
1. What will my shotgun's pattern be at the distances I am considering?
2. What is the background beyond where my assailant might be in different situations?
Once you figure out #1, you need to go to the range with different shotshells and try them through your shotgun at those distances. Get a sense of the patterning to expect from different ammo at those distances. Then use #2 to make a decision on ammo based on what humans/animals or other highly valuable things lay beyond your assailant. If there are humans beyond those walls, then you might consider #8 birdshot. It will still do the job of inflicting simultaneous nerve shock.
And as Lee Lapin said, take a shotgun course. Even a 1-dayer will be really beneficial.
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Labyrinth666
Member
Oh, I also forgot to include the option of "less-lethal" things i.e. Rock salt, bean bags, etc. What is your opinion on those type of things?
Titan6
member
Rock salt is great on driveways for melting snow. Bean bags make good chairs for adolescents or toys for toddlers; although at one time people collected bean bags in the shape of animals. Police use less lethal options because they have the advantage of training and often numbers. Unless you are going to have six of your buddies jump on an intruder and give him a good stomping stick with what works.
SnakeLogan
Member
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Brenekke's and sabots yes, but regular rifled slugs no. They only penetrate 12 - 15 inches.
I prefer 00 buckshot any day over slugs. All the penetration you need to reach the CNS on a large attacker (16+ inches in ballistic gel) with much more surface area (increasing the likelihood you'll hit the CNS).
JamisJockey
member
Junk Junk and Junk.
Lethal force is lethal force.
Don't "figure" nothing. Do some penetration testing and patterning with your chosen ammunition. I figure works if you're doing arithmetic.
I did pattern it Jamis Jockey. I was lazy about the pentration testing though. I let someone else do it for me. www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm
There was another article showing this load being tested for wall penetration but I can't seem to find it right now.
BTW the patterning & the research were both part of the figuring
There was another article showing this load being tested for wall penetration but I can't seem to find it right now.
BTW the patterning & the research were both part of the figuring
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