Hotel gun

[Odd Job]

Here's the uncomfortable answer:

Any round you fire which has the capability of neutralising the threat involuntarily, carries with it the potential for liability for damage caused to third party persons or their possessions.

Now you need to place on the "Balance Beam of Consequences" two weights:

1) What could happen to me if I don't fire a round that can neutralise the target
2) What could happen to me if I fire a round that does neutralise the target but also hurts an innocent bystander

 

[trackskippy]

Most of the self-defense ammo these days is designed not to overly-penetrate, and if it did, its probably going to be pretty well spent if it does. If you miss, it doenst matter what you're using.

If whats behind your target bothers you, move and take a better shot. Better off not to be static and an easy target for the incoming rounds anyway.

If there are more than one coming in, then I would be hoping for over-penetration, but not counting on it.

If youre so worried about over-penetration, Id be more worried about not missing the targets, and making sure you're up to an active and mobile gunfight, and being able to shoot while youre moving and competent enough to make sure your hits are as much on the positive side as possible. If you arent shooting like that regularly in practice, youre not likely going to do to well if you wait until youre in the middle of it.

When I hear people talking about using bird or buckshot out of a handgun, I cant help but think that they are trying to make up for a lack of skill in their shooting. And if over penetration or loose rounds are the worry, it just seems like a poor choice in general in that respect.

 

[Odd Job]

And then there are the variables, if you intend to use less lethal ammunition on hotel premises:

1) What ammunition are you carrying on your way into the hotel? Start from the car, for example
2) What is the process by which you change from your regular ammunition to this less lethal ammunition?
3) What ammunition are you carrying on your way out of the hotel? Start from the hotel room, for example

Seems to me you'll need two guns. Then you have circumstances where you are armed with two guns, one which has less lethal ammunition and the other one has your regular self defense ammunition. There are various pitfalls associated with that too.

 

[golden]

Scot,

You have to put this in the correct context. The premium bullets in defense ammo today is a lot less likely to over-penetrate, that is one reason I stick with the HST ammo my agency adopted when we still carried .40 S&W pistols. The Gold Dots and Golden Sabre should also perform like this.
Remember that the old .38 Special lead round nose bullet with much lower velocity and energy had a reputation for over-penetration with police departments. In actual use, this round would not expand at all and frequently drilled right through the target. This round traveled at around 750 to 800 fps, compared to the 1100 to 1200 fps of a 9m.m round, but the 9m.m. would expand when it hit something and that would slow the bullet down. The unexpanded .38 Special lead round nose would just keep on going. It is the expansion that you need to prevent over-penetration.

If a round expands well, it is unlikely to pass through the body, unless it is a really powerful round to begin with, like the .41 or .44 magnum rounds. The 9m.m. had a bad reputation for overpenetration when you used full metal jacketed ammo, like the 124 grain fmj "NATO" load. This round will not expand for any reason in a human body. It will likely blast through. The military likes this since it might hit another enemy soldier and cause even more trouble.

Premium bullets will almost always expand and not pass through the body. It can happen, but is unlikely in a center mass hit. They have also been designed to overcome problems with the hollow point being plugged when striking dry wall or something else.

Jim

 

[sgt127]

A long time ago. We hit a second story motel room on a crack warrant.

My partner broke and raked the window. I threw the Thunderflash. Door rammed. Lots of PO-Lice! With a sprinkling of obscenities.

We (entry team) are standing around. Five people flex cuffed laying on the ground. Smoke detectors going off...glass crunching under our boots...a light haze of smoke drifting out of the room.

The motel room door next door opens. Nice guy. Identifies himself as an off duty cop from Oklahoma. He and the family were going to Six Flags. Found a reasonable Motel. Asked if this was an unusual occurrence at this motel.

I pointed out that several of the doors on this landing had repaired door jambs and, the distinctive half moon dent that matched our ram....

Told him to get his money back, if management gave him any crap, I’d go down and talk to them.

 

[dodo bird]

Ok. I stay in a lot of hotels every year. My advise is it use the gun that is usually on your hip. Make sure the door is secured and have a very good flashlight next to the bedside. (Not safety related but,). Make sure you get the hotel points and sign up for their perks. Enjoy happy hour (gun upstairs) and put a white noise app on your phone for when there is a group of sport teams sharing the floor or a couple in the next room being a little too noisy........

 

[herrwalther]

No. I keep to whatever my EDC is at the time for consistency. The only stipulation I take into account is the state's gun laws. For example if they have a magazine ban of 15+ rounds, I'll bring something that complies. Other than that, I don't worry about it. I have a hard enough time remembering things like shaving cream on trips. I don't want to add extra considerations like mixing up firearms etc.

 

[chicharrones]

Enjoy happy hour (gun upstairs) and put a white noise app on your phone for when there is a group of sport teams sharing the floor or a couple in the next room being a little too noisy........

I have a portable white noise machine in my hotel bag always ready to go. It's almost as important to me as my hotel gun.

 

[sgt127]

One of the things I talk about in shooting training. Practice weird shooting position. Just make up draw and shoot scenarios. Sitting. On your knees. Whatever.

It’s not a perfect solution. It may not work for you. But, it’s another tool in the tool box.

If you find yourself in a massively crowded environment. A classroom. A movie theater. Drop to one knee and shoot up under the bad guys chin. Start at the sternum and work up.

This is a one shot deal. You will be in a bad position. Don’t miss.

IF he doesn’t know you’re armed. IF you are close enough. IF you are fast enough. If you can conceal the gun in a shopping bag. Under a napkin. It will completely reset his OODA loop and you can prevail.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ I've considered this a lot, too. If a lot of innocents are, or may be, around and shooting must still take place, consider a "get low, shoot high" position.

As far as the rat/snake-shot idea goes, I'd rather rely on a .22 handgun than any rat/snake-shot round (and, as I mentioned before, I typically bring one with me when I travel, in addition to "regular" carry guns.)

 

[dh1633pm]

I travel about half the year. Have top status with multiple hotel chains. Someone trying to enter you room in the night sometimes is the fault of them being issued a key by the front desk for the same room your in. Happens to me at least once a year. Using what is there security wise and yelling wrong room usually fixes the problem.

Once when in Fairborn OH, I was availing myself to dinner and a few cold ones. When I walked back to my hotel room, the police were at the local Hampton Inn (next door to my hotel) in force. The news showed the next day that someone had tried to rob the desk clerk and shot him in the face. Killed him. So these things do happen. The next night there were security guards overnight at my hotel.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...ve-that-kind-violence/KqukkD1DqUxoPef9St5ILK/

A co-worker was staying at a hotel in San Antonio. Overnight someone stole all the wheels off his rental car.

No firearms for me since I travel by plane to most destinations. One has to pay attention.

 

[jmorris]

Shot shells in pistol calibers is something to consider.
Like what CCI puts out.

Only if the mice are small. They are only effective on snakes to about 15ft, grabbing the pistol by the barrel and using as a club might be more effective against an attacker.

If you were to use one, I would only have one in the chamber and have the magazine full of something more appropriate. Do not forget to test and ensure that firing the rat shot load will reliably eject the case and chamber the next round.

 

[Rexster]

A number of hotels, of various sizes, were located in my assigned patrol area, in Houston, Texas. Most criminal incidents, by some margin, that involved weapons, happened in or near the parking areas. So, a good “hotel gun” is, realistically, one’s carry gun, as I perceive it.

 

[Reinz]

I was a traveling salesman for 20 years with mostly rural territories. Thus my motel choices were extremely limited. Many had doors so thin I swear a child could put their fist through the door.

I have had so many incidents mirror those stated in this thread and so many others that I’m not sure if I could the tell the facts straight without intertwining the episodes.

Being a gun addict I always had guns that needed cleaning that I would clean at night. Thus I had plenty of guns. I did NOT trash the towels or sink! I would be back in 4-6 weeks.

Here’s what I learned that worked for me:

1) Stay away from budget Motels, if possible stay at the most expensive one.

2) Completely removed everything of value from the car.

3) If Multi level, always try to get on the top level, no matter how many loads I had to carry.

4) I never told motel employees or strangers what I sold.

5) When I left the room to eat, all of the guns were loaded back up. I did not use traditional gun cases. Most were pistols and were carried in Kids lunch bags or other nondescript bags.

6) My carry gun was left in my pants in case of fire. My “trunk gun” was on the nightstand for when I slept facing the door or on my back. Another handgun was under a pillow for when my back was to the door.

7) When I showered or sat on the toilet, a SS handgun was on the tank bowl. When I shaved or brushed my teeth a SS handgun was on the counter.

This my seem paranoid, but I had too many bad experiences to not be overly cautious. I’m sure I left other things out, it’s been many years since.

 

[John_R]

Hotel walls are, at a minimum, 5/8” drywall on each side of wood or metal studs, nothing special. Same as an office but slightly thicker drywall than your house. Sound batts in the walls don’t slow down bullets.

 

[Roknstevo]

Great Scot

When I use to stay at motels I would take my Beretta Model 84 along. I kept it on the night stand close to where I could readily access it. Usually I kept a small hand towel or an open magazine over it to keep it out of sight. Figured 13 rounds of .380 should discourage anyone trying to break in and hopefully with the .380 it wouldn't penetrate too far through the walls (at least that was my theory).

I would also take a chair and prop it up against the door to slow an intruder down and it actually worked because one night someone tried to get into my room while I was there sleeping. They had a key because I heard them unlock the door and try to push their way in. The chain held them up and the chair slowed them down enough along with my yelling out, caused them to beat a hasty retreat and take off running!

It was probably only that honey you were flirting with in the bar.

 

[bannockburn]

Roknstevo

Trust me there was no bar or restaurant at this particular "economy" motel. I don't even know if they had vending machines. Besides which I checked out the next morning and did as Reinz just suggested and stayed at a nice hotel in a much better neighborhood!

 

[bigmike45]

If you are concerned with over penetration of your standard EDC ammunition you could change to the new frangible bullets. I tried this one in my EDC and it loads without any malfunctions. It's called RIP (Radically Invasive Projectile). I shot it into a spoiled leg quarter of a cow we had to put down. It did not come out the other side, but it did rip some nice channels into the meat. The projectile broke into 4 distinct pieces.

 

[Choctaw]

My "hotel gun" is my travel gun, which is a Glock 19 with whatever HP ammo happens to be in it.

Totally agree with FL-NC, but then I usually do. My "everything gun" is also a Glock 19. It's what I'm qualified on and what I train with. Changing guns like you change pants isn't a good idea. Muscle memory is a real thing and in a gunfight you will need all the help you can get.

Also, don't think shotshells will send the bad guys running. Many bad guys have grown up on the streets and are tougher and meaner than you can possibly imagine. Just because they are criminals doesn't mean they are afraid of you or your gun. If you shoot someone you had better do it with enough gun to win the fight. No, that's not an original thought but it is the absolute truth.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

No. HSTs all the time.

Spend an extra $20 and stay in a decent motel.

 

[chicharrones]

No. HSTs all the time.

Spend an extra $20 and stay in a decent motel.

Lol. The places I go and stay, I'd have to double the hotel price to get a decent hotel. It seems like I'm always staying in Hotel Scumbucket with all the other blue collar workers* and laborers.

*because I am one.

 

[DR505]

NOTE: I have never heard of a law enforcement agency using shot loads in a handgun. Does anyone know of any agency that does for defensive use?

Jim

The FBI no longer uses even buckshot loads in their Remington 870s...they switched to all slug and abandoned the use of 00 buck some time ago. So using shot, especially bird-shot, in a handgun, is a non-starter.

 

[WolfNinja]

EDC all the way

 

[Armored farmer]

Ok. I stay in a lot of hotels every year. My advise is it use the gun that is usually on your hip. Make sure the door is secured and have a very good flashlight next to the bedside. (Not safety related but,). Make sure you get the hotel points and sign up for their perks. Enjoy happy hour (gun upstairs) and put a white noise app on your phone for when there is a group of sport teams sharing the floor or a couple in the next room being a little too noisy........

I agree with this.
Some people post as if they're soldiers of fortune in a hostile land.

Have your ccw.

For goodness sake, every adult male should have a carry flashlight! It's dark every night!

Use your head, know where your exits are. Count doors for goodness sake.

Know where the fire extinguisher is...again, count doors!
Use the stairs.

Its more likely that some bozo next door will fall asleep with his cigarette than anything else.

I dont use the additional door block...,but hey, thats a great idea.

Park where you can see your car from the room...yeah, you may have to move it.

Most folks don't need killing. FYI.

*edit to say that the motels and hotels that mrs and I stay in have to meet her standards, which are pretty high...otherwise I just drive all night. I've done it many times. Twice already in 2021.

 

[dodo bird]

I agree with this.
Some people post as if they're soldiers of fortune in a hostile land.

Have your ccw.

For goodness sake, every adult male should have a carry flashlight! It's dark every night!

Use your head, know where your exits are. Count doors for goodness sake.

Know where the fire extinguisher is...again, count doors!
Use the stairs.

Its more likely that some bozo next door will fall asleep with his cigarette than anything else.

I dont use the additional door block...,but hey, thats a great idea.

Park where you can see your car from the room...yeah, you may have to move it.

Most folks don't need killing. FYI.

*edit to say that the motels and hotels that mrs and I stay in have to meet her standards, which are pretty high...otherwise I just drive all night. I've done it many times. Twice already in 2021.

Good post. Most people don’t need a gun pointed at them. I can say more than a couple times the front desk gave me an occupied room. Once the guy was asleep in a dark room (Bogota) the other was a guy standing in his underwear texting (Dayton). Needless to say they were surprised and so was I. I am glad neither of those guys had a gun in their hand.