Jim Watson
Member
Since the dispersion of the gun is added to the dispersion of the shooter, it can only be desired that the gun have no dispersion at all. Jeff Cooper.
Perfect practice makes perfect, and most "advanced" tactics and techniques are really just the basics done really well. .I occasionally hear of such performance (not that I don't believe it). I can't even get one shot off with pie plate accuracy from concealment in 1.5s. I hover around 2.0s for one shot, and am chasing 2.5s for two shots. Depending on distance of course.
I shoot for the moon and hope I can get over the barn. I reload most of my ammo and have had good results. Some premium SD ammo is quite good but expensive to shoot so I try to replicate that premium ammo with my reloads for training.what are your accuracy goals with handguns at SD distances? Do you think handgun ammo affects your ability to meet that goal?
If you buy decent quality ammo, you should be good in the accuracy department nearly all the time. I did an experiment awhile back where I loaded 6 different types of practice ammo (all FMJ, all "budget" practice-type ammo) into the mag of a stock Glock 17 and shot 10 rounds at 15 yards. Five of the loads were from domestic makers, the fifth was imported.
The resulting group was 2" center-to-center.
I'm not saying you can't find gun/ammo combinations that don't work--it can happen. I'm just saying that ammo selection for reasonable self-defense pistol accuracy isn't something that usually needs to be agonized over.
I want to be able to reliably, slow-fire, hit a 12oz sodacan-size target from about 25 yards. Or, add some urgency and cut the distance in half.... what are your accuracy goals with handguns at SD distances? Do you think handgun ammo affects your ability to meet that goal?
I’m about the same. Aim for 2-3 inch groups at 10 yards. I can do better if slow firing, breath control, etc. My handgun III instructors said nothing more than that is necessary for common SD. The only guns I find hard to do that with are snubbies and micro pistols (at 10 yards). I mainly think of those as 5 yard or less guns anyways though, and they do fine at 15 feet.I am a fan of accurate rifles, wanting sub MOA, hand load to get it, spend time shooting to attain it. I don’t compete against anyone but myself, well maybe sometimes with my boys.
with handguns I am not quite as particular, I do still want accuracy but mostly i try to achieve fist sized at 10 yards. Not always able to accomplish that, and when shooting Mozambique I am more accurate with the singles than the doubles. I am not sure ammo makes a lot of difference in this level of accuracy. Even blazer or similar will group fairly well at 10 yards.
what are your accuracy goals with handguns at SD distances? Do you think handgun ammo affects your ability to meet that goal?
d
Meh, why do you need one inch accuracy at 10 yards with a pistol? Do the police or military require that?For defensive use, Ray Chapman, first world champion in IPSC competition, if memory serves, once opined that he wanted one inch groups for every ten yards of distance...one inch for ten, two at 20, three at thirty...all shot two handed, slow fire.
In my use, that standard holds for any of my hand loads...and not that difficult to produce with a little effort from most any revolver of Colt, Ruger or S&W make. For auto's it's not as easy unless you limit your defensive yardages to less than 15.
YMMv Rod
Is that called 'hour of angle'?For defensive use, Ray Chapman, first world champion in IPSC competition, if memory serves, once opined that he wanted one inch groups for every ten yards of distance...one inch for ten, two at 20, three at thirty...all shot two handed, slow fire.
In my use, that standard holds for any of my hand loads...and not that difficult to produce with a little effort from most any revolver of Colt, Ruger or S&W make. For auto's it's not as easy unless you limit your defensive yardages to less than 15.
YMMv Rod
Military and police are a pretty low bar when it comes to basing things on. That doesn't mean you should strive for mediocrity either, simply because they seem to.Meh, why do you need one inch accuracy at 10 yards with a pistol? Do the police or military require that?
Perfect practice makes perfect, and most "advanced" tactics and techniques are really just the basics done really well. .
what are your accuracy goals with handguns at SD distances? Do you think handgun ammo affects your ability to meet that goal?
Sorta goes hand in hand, dont you think? Whats one without the other? Unless all you're doing is trying to shoot the smallest group possible, and that really doesn't apply here.I got the impression the OP was after how accurate does you handgun need to be not how well you shoot it in a particular situation or drill.
Sorta goes hand in hand, dont you think? Whats one without the other? Unless all you're doing is trying to shoot the smallest group possible, and that really doesn't apply here.
with handguns I am not quite as particular, I do still want accuracy but mostly i try to achieve fist sized at 10 yards. Not always able to accomplish that, and when shooting Mozambique I am more accurate with the singles than the doubles. I am not sure ammo makes a lot of difference in this level of accuracy. Even blazer or similar will group fairly well at 10 yards.
Since the dispersion of the gun is added to the dispersion of the shooter, it can only be desired that the gun have no dispersion at all. Jeff Cooper.