How long before an Ammo Ban?

[Brother in Arms]

Ok everyone I have been postulating this particular theory for a while now and I think that smart Anti's might eventually figure this one out. Either they ban all ammunition manufature (hard to do) or they Tax the crap out of it just like they do ciggarettes and other things they don't like, so they effectivly make it impossible or average people to stockpile. Some will say I can always reload. But for how long? They could easily tax and regulare cartridges, primers powder and bullets. I think that in time they will try this saying that bullets are Hazardous material ( lead content) and that powder and primers are fire hazards and explosives. I think under these guises banning sale of large qauntitys of ammunition could be done. That or cut off any importation of foreign ammo and we have already seen what it can be like using wolf as example and it wasnt even banned.

Just something to think on.

Brother in Arms

 

[Deanimator]

These posts just baffle me. It isn't going to happen, certainly not on the national level.

You might as well post what would people do if Shari'ia law replaced the US Constitution.

I'd much rather speculate on what would happen if the GCA '68 and NFA '34 were repealed.

If you plan for defeat, you usually achieve it...

 

[atlctyslkr]

People will just smuggle it in from overseas manufacturers. I don't think companies like S&B are going to quit making ammo. Guns are going to be alot harder to ban than anything the government has ever tried. It will never happen on a national level. Some local governments already have banned ammo sales or severely restricted them. It hasn't worked.

 

[AJAX22]

When I was working at Big 5 a few years back there was a disquieting rumor that a law was in the works to tax every cartridge sold in claifornia, I believe it was going to be something like an aditional 20cents per round.

which would effectivly ban every .22 in current use.

Nothing seems to have come from it, but its rather disturbing to think how effective that would be at stripping money out of the pockets of gun owners.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Ajax is correct, an ammo ban via taxing failed even in California.

 

[RustyFN]

Brother in Arms,
I was curious what you meant by your example about Wolf ammo. I went to Cabelas the other day to buy some and they said they sell it so fast they can't keep it on the shelf. They also aren't getting as much as they used to was my impression. That is all that I have heard about Wolf ammo until the other day. I ran into a guy at the range. We were talking about different things and Wolf ammo was brought up. He told me that Wolf ammo was being sent to Iraq and some of the other countries over there to be used against our military. After all it is made in Russia. Could that be why we are seing a shortage in the U.S? Has anybody heard anything else like this about Wolf ammo? If it is true then I would rather buy any other ammo and not buy any Wolf ammo.
Rusty

 

[Gordon Fink]

Ajax is correct, an ammo ban via taxing failed even in California.

It failed, because by the time the bill arrived on the Governor’s desk, we had kicked J. G. Davis out of Sacramento. Next time, we may not be so lucky.

~G. Fink

 

[DMK]

He told me that Wolf ammo was being sent to Iraq and some of the other countries over there to be used against our military. After all it is made in Russia. Could that be why we are seing a shortage in the U.S? Has anybody heard anything else like this about Wolf ammo? If it is true then I would rather buy any other ammo and not buy any Wolf ammo.

Even IF that was true (and I'm dubious), what makes you think it's being used against our military? We aren't fighting the Iraqi nationals, we are fighting insurgents and Al Qaeda. We are arming/training both the Iraqi military/police/militia and the Afgans to defend and police themselves.

 

[afsnco]

Rusty,

I heard different. At our last machine gun shoot I talked to a guy who said that the US Gov't, in its infinite wisdom, destroyed stockpiles of weapons in Afghanistan and Iraq by running over them with tracked vehicles. Now they've discovered they need more weapons to arm those two militaries and police, so the US is contracting to buy weapons and ammo from Russia. And that's what's causing the shortage of Wolf ammo.

After spending 20 years in the US military, that sounds like a typical US government SNAFU.:banghead:

 

[Pilgrim]

Ok everyone I have been postulating this particular theory for a while now and I think that smart Anti's might eventually figure this one out. Either they ban all ammunition manufature (hard to do) or they Tax the crap out of it just like they do ciggarettes and other things they don't like, so they effectivly make it impossible or average people to stockpile.

Former NY Senator David Patrick Moynihan, who conveniently retired so Hillary Clinton could become a senator, proposed a 10,000% excise tax on ammunition. They've already figured it out.

Pilgrim

 

[Correia]

Guys, the Wolf thing has been done a million times. Go do a search. Of course, most of the posts are people postulating crazy stuff, and not listening to those of us that talked to their VP of sales, so never mind.

afsnco, lots of stuff was destroyed in Afghanistan and Iraq, BUT most of it was pretty badly beat up. Most of the weapons that were still servicable were fixed by 45 Bravos and put back to work. PvtPyle spent so much time refurbing DhSKs and things like that that every SF firebase in Afghanistan had more crew served weapons that there was Americans to use them.

When you are outfitting a new Army, you want to provide them with good equipment. Not ratty, pieced together, bits of this and that, that is possibly unsafe, or is going to spend most of its time getting fixed.

 

[Ryder]

they will try this saying that bullets are Hazardous

They aren't as dumb as they want us to think they are if they know that.

 

[Brother in Arms]

If they suceed at taxing the hell out of ammo and components. Then ammo for regular folks would be out of the question. sure there would be exsisting stock piles that people already have and smuggling would be able to add some ammo to the market, but gone would be the days of buying in qauntity, unless you where an ammunition smuggler.

If a rabid anti gun Democrat got into office and had support, it could pass at the national level ( prohibition started at the state level and became national) and even if it didn't and was only done at the state level it could seriously hurt shooting and firearms enthusiasm in this country.

to use ciggarettes as an example, here in Maine there is a $2.00 per pack tax on manufactured smokes. But no such tax on ciggarette making components like rolling papers and tobbaco so a signifigant number of people now roll there own and many have quit smoking all together just because of cost. This demonstates that unfair taxation is a effective method to remove the "undesireble" commodity from ciculation or lessen it in circulation. That way you dont have to ever ACTAULLY ban it because you have VIRTAULLY.

In my opinion this is the most efective way to take the physial fight out of American resistance. It wouldn't matter if you had an M60 or a bolt action .22 if you hadn't prepared you would be just as SOL as the next guy. Even if you do stockpile the ammo you have won't last forever or even very long in a active confrontation.

Brother in Arms

 

[Waitone]

Ed Kennedy and his faithful sidekick Kerry have already sponsored legislation to ban sniper ammo. Ed even had a public breakdown on the senate floor bewailing the evils of sniper ammo. The idea is out there. Implementation is a different issue.

 

[cyanide]

Relax

Ain't gonna happen

Robertson Pittman tax act.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Ed Kennedy and his faithful sidekick Kerry have already sponsored legislation to ban sniper ammo. Ed even had a public breakdown on the senate floor bewailing the evils of sniper ammo. The idea is out there. Implementation is a different issue.

That's funny because I, and everyone I know, call it hunting ammo. How many more moronic laws will they need to pass before they realize that their laws DO NOTHING?

 

[Deavis]

In my opinion this is the most efective way to take the physial fight out of American resistance. It wouldn't matter if you had an M60 or a bolt action .22 if you hadn't prepared you would be just as SOL as the next guy. Even if you do stockpile the ammo you have won't last forever or even very long in a active confrontation.

I don't believe you are looking at this issue properly. Your stockpile isn't there to win the war, it is to ficht your way to a larger stockpile. You know the adage, 'A handgun should only be used to fight your way to a rifle'

 

[Fosbery]

Marijuana is illegal, and I bet more americans use marijuana than guns

 

[iliketoshootguns]

people would be making bullets just like they made moonshine when the feds outlawed booze

 

[Selfdfenz]

Brother nailed it

to use cigarettes as an example

And a perfect example it is. The many different taxes on cigs were justified on the basis, of among other things, paying the higher cost of health care due to smoking & running anti-smoking programs to curb teen use of cigs. Change the wording a little and you have tax proposal that are good to go for an ammo tax. That was/is in addition to the basic sin taxes most states couldn't resist increasing periodically. The fact this has been floated in Kali is a clear indication to me the issue will be with us and will get traction eventually.

Once a tax on ammo goes into effect anywhere in the nation you better expect the process to be repeated elsewhere and duplication of the historical pathway to where we are with tobacco today. It will be hailed as the crime fightinest, child protectinest tool ever devised by mankind. Since most people aren't sport shooters why should they care.

I'm pretty sure in the 60s and 70s when tons of people smoked and cigs were 50 cents a pack no-one would have believed it if you told them in 2006 the taxes alone on 1 pack of cig would be 4 dollars and BTW you can't smoke that thing here, go outside.

Some in government are always on the hunt for something to tax because as you know no junkie needs his fix the way governments need your money. Others would be happy to see the sin product become extinct and could care less about the money. These two groups enable each other.

Since Kali has tested the water more than once IIRC I expect to see the first successful implementation in that state but you never know.

S-
[non-smoker, student of recent history]

 

[Waitone]

I post this article not as a thread hijack but as a flashlight carried into a dark closet. Clinton (the male) tried to use civil law to kill off the gun industry. We saw its implementation but did not see the behinds the scenes stuff. Here is a short article that gives a little of what went on behind closed doors and what may happen in the future WRT to ammo.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=16096
The Clintons' War on Gun Rights

by Tom Fitton
Posted Jul 19, 2006

What kind of president will Sen. Hillary Clinton make? Giving her ethical failings, I realize this is a disturbing thought, but we must consider it as Clinton remains the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic nomination for President in 2008.

The way I figure it, with the Clintons, past is prologue. Bill Clinton’s unfinished illicit business as president will be Hillary’s to take up if elected. That’s why Judicial Watch’s investigations team has been inspecting the newly released Clinton Presidential Library records. (We don’t endorse or oppose candidates, but it is part of educational and corruption-fighting mission to see the Clintons held accountable.)

Recently, our investigations team uncovered documents that provide some interesting, and troubling, details about the Clintons’ plan to destroy the gun industry, a la “Big Tobacco.” Here’s just a sample of what we discovered:

* A memorandum from former Clinton Advisor Sidney Blumenthal to Bruce Reed, Director of the White House Domestic Policy Council, dated November 9, 1998, which reads: "I've enclosed an article and a press release about the new effort to file class action suits against gun manufacturers. I think this is a very promising idea. Let's talk about it soon." The press release, from the Office of the Mayor of New Orleans, was in draft form, suggesting the Mayor coordinated the strategy with the Clinton White House.

* The "promising idea" identified by Blumenthal involved filing massive product liability and negligence lawsuits against major handgun makers, "the opening salvo in a campaign against the gun industry by an alliance of anti-tobacco attorneys and local governments," wrote The Los Angeles Times. According to one of the lawyers involved in the lawsuits: "We are going to do to [the gun industry] what we did to tobacco. It's going to be a very large war."

* Our investigators also uncovered a March 6, 2000 letter from New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer with a handwritten note at the top from Bill Clinton to then-White House Deputy Counsel Bruce Lindsey, which reads: "Bruce, See me re: this…has some good ideas for future." Among the "good ideas" -- denying gun manufacturers the right to sell guns to the military and law enforcement unless they sign an anti-gun "code of conduct" that would cripple the industry.

Clinton and the anti-gun rights crowd used this extortive litigation strategy to strong-arm gun manufacturer Smith and Wesson into adopting some of their policies. President Bush put an end to the federal abuse of the gun industry in 2000. Will a “President Hillary” revert back to government extortion of the gun industry?

I see no reason why the same strategy won't work on ammo.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

That could never happen

Like the depriving of the 2A rights of LA citizens - could not happen because it was illegal and the people wouldn't support it. I'm Sorry! It did happen.

Believing that 'it couldn't happen' is what we can't do as gun owners. It will 'happen' to us, because there are politicians and their sheeple that want to see it happen to us : all they need is the chance.

 

[k_semler]

to use cigarettes as an example

OK. In WA State, a carton of camels, (Pullman WA), is $48.51. If I drive 8 miles across the state line, that same carton will cost me $27.30. If I drive 36 miles out to the Nez Pierce Indian Reservation, I can get a carton for $19.86. Granted, it's tax evasion, but until border checks are established along major roads, I'm home free. Even then, I have secondary roads if nessecary. There's always a way around taxation. It just depends on how far you want to drive is all.

 

[Whirlwind06]

To say it can never happen is burying your head in the sand.
This is another front that needs to watched.

 

[leadcounsel]

No need to ban it, at these prices who can afford it!