How many rounds are adequate capacity for DEFENSE?

[Nightcrawler]

I have a solution, for lovers of both the 9x19mm and .45ACP rounds.

You get yourself either an MPA-30 or MPA-10 from RPB USA.. They're new, well made MAC 10/11 clones. The MPA-30 is in 9mm, and accepts umodified STEN magazines. The MPA-10 is in .45ACP and takes unmodified Grease Gun mags. They're available in either top-cocking or side-cocking versions.

Then, to carry it, you get yourself an FMCO brand Load Bearing Shoulder Holster. Get the version that allows you to carry the weapon under your weak side and four spare magazines under your strong side.

Then, you'll have a semiautomatic pistol, complete with 150 rounds of .45ACP or 160 rounds of 9x19mm (assuming 30-rd Grease Gun mags and 32-rd STEN mags). Plenty of power for anything life throws at you, no?

 

[Longbow]

The more the better, IMO!

I can't see a situation were having more rounds is a disadvantage. With that said, I pack a Glock 17 w/ 20 rds of ammo (winter) or my Keltec P11 w/ 12 rd S&W mag (summer) for carry.

 

[Trisha]

my formula

One 12ga slug (1oz @1400fps, with 6+1 in the shotgun) per goblin anticipated.

Breaking that down to the handgun & ammunition carried is simple, and my basic minimum rig.

Trisha

 

[longeyes]

"I have a solution, for lovers of both the 9x19mm and .45ACP rounds.

You get yourself either an MPA-30 or MPA-10 from RPB USA.. They're new, well
made MAC 10/11 clones. The MPA-30 is in 9mm, and accepts umodified STEN
magazines. The MPA-10 is in .45ACP and takes unmodified Grease Gun mags.
They're available in either top-cocking or side-cocking versions.

Then, to carry it, you get yourself an FMCO brand Load Bearing Shoulder Holster.
Get the version that allows you to carry the weapon under your weak side and
four spare magazines under your strong side.

Then, you'll have a semiautomatic pistol, complete with 150 rounds of .45ACP or
160 rounds of 9x19mm (assuming 30-rd Grease Gun mags and 32-rd STEN mags).
Plenty of power for anything life throws at you, no?"

Right up until the thing jams on ya.

I think against 30 your best action might be to go into berserker mode with a well-tempered hand ax.

 

[Erik]

Adequate? 5 and a reload.

Any amount greater is, of course, also adequate.

---

Always carry a reload:

It adds little, if any, inconvenience to carrying.

It is the only way to get a semi-auto pistol back in action in case a type 3 malfunction occurs.

 

[Jack19]

I live life by the axiom: "Better to have more rounds on you than more rounds in you."

Statistics are interesting things. If statistics say that in 99 of 100 personal defense cases there are 3 shots fired, within 3 yards, within 3 seconds; I'm going to plan to be the 100th case.

Bring enough ammo to go home every day.

 

[Doc]

Jack19:

I am unaware of actual statistics in regards to lethal force encounters involving civilians.
The most quoted stats come from the NYPD during the 70's (revolvers) and 80's (double stack 9mm).
They show
ca. 2 sec with 5.x shots fired for 2 hits (70's).
ca. 3 sec with 12.x shots fired for 2 hits (80's).
Then they stopped keeping statistics as far as i know.

 

[New_comer]

I haven't read the previous posts yet but for me...

A full mag in my semi-auto gun (15 shots) for carry, with a spare mag nearby if at home. No sense relying on statistics of minimum shots needed if I could work the odds much in my favor.

For my shotgun, fully loaded mag tube, empty chamber. I am counting on the racking sound while loading to send an 'earful' of potential hurt to the would-be perp, time for him to change his mind. Spare shells must be nearby, minimum again of one magful.

In an urban setting where I'm at, setting off even a round will definitely catch the attention of roving peace officers. Setting off several would surely draw a crowd, and the police

 

[Dave T]

Q: How many rounds are adequate?

A #1: One more than it takes to stop the bad guy!

A #2: Who cares - ammo is cheep, life is priceless!

 

[Richard]

Weight of the handgun and ammunition have a lot to do with the equation. In other words how much weight are you willing to carry. In my case I regularly carry either S&W Model 457 or a Kahr 40. In both cases the handgun plus one extra magazine is good enough for me. I own some fine weapons and holsters but the above is what I am willing to tote on a regular basis. Regards, Richard

 

[natedog]

5-6 should be enough according to statistics, but do you really want to take chances? Plus, I'm not going to tell people that they shouldn't (or can't) have 32rd. magazines locked into their Glocks or 100rd. Beta-C mags in their AR-15.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

As I see it, at least one spare magazine. I really like two -- both 10-rounders, to supplement the 8-round (+1) in the gun.

Interestingly enough to those who want a limitation on magazines, a Paraordnance P14-45, with one round up the spout and one spare mag is 29 rounds.

My Kimber basic M1911 with an 8-rounder in the gun, plus one up the spout, and two 10-round spares is 29 rounds!

 

[Chris Rhines]

Capacity-wise, I'm going to go with 5 as a bare minimum.
Reloads-wise, one should always carry at least one reload, for clearing malfunctions if nothing else. More than that is, of course, up to one's personal comfort. Keep in mind that if you can carry two or three spare magazines, you can probably carry a backup gun instead. Which will be more useful?

- Chris

 

[Mannlicher]

Haycreek,

I suggest you load up with three rounds, and see what happens.

 

[Logistar]

For a normal street confrontation I think the ammo in the gun should be sufficient. However I would feel a lot more comfortable waiting for the cops (in the dangerous area I am obviously in if I had to shoot someone) to show up if I had a fully reloaded handgun with me. Personal preference, YMMV.

I think the same way, Aikibiker. When carrying 10-round capacity mags... I see myself possibly using most of those rounds in several possible scenerios. (Recent attack by two large dogs might use up one 10-round mag.) - Yeah, I just might miss a few times under pressure with quickly moving targets.

Anyway, the extra magazine isn't so much for the initial confrontation but to insure when I leave the scene that I have a FULLY loaded magazine and a completely functional weapon ready to go if needed again (until I get home anyway).



Logistar

 

[W Turner]

1911- 8 rd mag and a reload
Glock 20-15+1
CZ75B- 15+1
SW 642- 5rds. and at least one reload
KT P3AT- 7+1 and a reload

When I get my 5 or 6 shot big bore snubby I will carry a reload as well, but probably only one.

Mino

 

[Boats]

Oddly enough, I have been heading "downwards" as time goes by.

late 80s--had to have at least 15+1 9mm and a reload to feel reasonably well

90s--Went "down" to 8+1 .45ACP and one reload.

the Oughts--seriously considering a couple of .357 Mag revolvers and at least speed strips.

Perhaps this trend coincides with my becoming a better and better shot?

I like the old Marine maxim: A thousand misses is not firepower, one hit is.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a normal street confrontation I think the ammo in the gun should be sufficient. However I would feel a lot more comfortable waiting for the cops (in the dangerous area I am obviously in if I had to shoot someone) to show up if I had a fully reloaded handgun with me. Personal preference, YMMV.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The old mountain men had a saying, "When you shoot, don't stir out of your tracks without you reload."

Although I've never had to shoot someone in civilian life, my experience in combat is, people who look dead may not be, and people who you thought were alone, aren't.

 

[doubleclaw]

What I carry depends on the weather(I live in Mississippi, where it gets hot as a two dollar pistol), and what kind of clothing I'm wearing. During the cooler months I carry either a Glock 30, one reload and a Spyderco calypso, OR my Beretta 92FS, one reload and the Spyderco. During the summer I carry my knife(never without one), and keep the pistol within arms reach either in the truck or around the house. I will be looking for a smaller caliber pistol for use in the hot weather, maybe a Beretta tomcat .32 or a Kel-Tec, haven't decided. I do agree with the statements previously made by several members that your most important self defense asset is basically your ability to observe your surroundings and avoid likely trouble spots and situations. Sometimes you have no control over a situation, but it still pays to be alert. I've never had to use any of my firearms so far(and I hope I never have to!), but there have been several close calls. Each time I was able to either "dissuade" the assailant or make my escape without incident. I consider myself lucky, and I always operate on the assumption that one day my luck just might run out.

 

[BHPshooter]

This thread reminds me of a story I was told on a Boy Scout campout:

A group of fellows are backpacking in the wilderness, relaxing around a toasty campfire, when a voice emanates from the starry sky, telling the men to put gravel into their packs. The men look at each other in a state of confusion and doubt. Again the voice rings forth, "Put gravel into your packs." Still doubtful and not wanting to weigh down their backpacks, the men take a little bit of gravel and zip it into their backpack pocket before turning in for the night.

In the morning, the men open their packs to reveal that the gravel has turned to diamonds.

*************

Basically, you're screwed either way. If you carry 4 reloads, you're weighed down and the mags/speedloaders are in the way -- and you'll probably never need it anyway. If you just set out with a derringer or a 5-shooter, you've still got your gun, but you'll be awfully sorry if you find that you needed a sixth or seventh or Nth shot.

Like everything else, it's a gamble. However, discomfort is still preferable to death or injury, IMO.

Wes

 

[michiganfan]

didn't somebody once post in response to ths issue that
one less than the bad guy is not enough
one full reload was enough and
there is no such thing as too muchg

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
didn't somebody once post in response to ths issue that
one less than the bad guy is not enough
one full reload was enough and
there is no such thing as too much
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeff Cooper said, "There is such a thing as enough ammo, and there is such a thing as not enough ammo. There is no such thing as too much ammo."

 

[Trebor]

There are two things I tell my concealed carry students when it comes to choosing a CCW gun:

1. Pick a gun that you WILL carry. The "perfect" gun does you no good if it's home in the safe because it's too much trouble to carry.

2. If you ever had to defend your life with your carry gun, would you be glad you had that SPECIFIC gun, or would you be wishing you had a different gun that you left at home?

How you balance the two conflicting ideas is up to you. Some people are comfortable with a 5-shot J frame and no reloads, while others want a high-cap 9 and two extra mags. The J frame is the better gun if it's there when needed when the 9's in the safe, but I bet no one who actually carries the hi-cap 9 would wish they had a 5-shot J frame instead if they ever had to draw.

 

[Richard]

Trebor,

You raise a very good point. I have ran the gammot with handguns and holsters for CCW. I have tortured at least two people by using them as my sounding boards; yes, they were Stephen A. Camp and Lou Alessi. I reached the same conclusions you have.

I see posters recommend a 1911 or Beretta 92 for CCW and it tells me one of two things. They have never carried anything else or they don't carry. Why? Large handguns are no picnic when it comes to carry. I have a Ken L. Null UNS and a Milt Sparks Summer Special for 1911s; it doesn't get any better and I still don't want to tote one of these things.

I presently carry a custom Kahr K40 but the end of the month I expect to transition to a Bersa Thunder 45. Again, why? I have to leave a pistol in the car a lot and I don't like leaving a $1,000 handgun behind. I chose the Bersa Thunder 45 as it is reasonable, light, accurate, compact, and reliable.

Regards,

Richard

 

[pwrtool45]

<dr evil>

One MILLION ro...

what.?.. oh..

One BILLION rounds!

muahah ahahah hhaha hAHAHAHAH!!!

</dr evil>