How safe are 1911's to carry cocked and locked?

[unisonic12]

If I close the hammer the thumb safety cannot be put back on.

Aren't all 1911s like that?

 

[45auto]

Almost two "issues" being discussed, since FP safeties don't have much to do with "cocked and locked".

C&L, in itself, is safe since you have a manual safety.

1911's without FP blocks can AD. Recent thread on the 1911 forum of a 1911 dropped a short distance and it went off.

Hammer can follow the slide down, on a reload, and AD. Seen it, done it and read about it. That happens because of "faulty parts or fit/ wear, etc"...whatever! But, it can happen and it can't with a series 80.

I find it amusing to read it "can't happen". Colt knew it could happen in the early 1930's because they designed the swartz safety.

Again in the 1980's when the series 80 was developed.
And, again when CA stipulated drop tests and all the companies "did something". Neo-swartz safety, lighter Fp's, heavier Fp springs, etc.
Awful lot of "scurrying around" to modify something that "can't happen".

 

[unisonic12]

Hammer can follow the slide down, on a reload, and AD. Seen it, done it and read about it. That happens because of "faulty parts or fit/ wear, etc"...whatever! But, it can happen and it can't with a series 80.

Why can't it happen with a series 80 if someone is holding it properly when loading from a magazine? The thumb safety has to be off to rack the slide and the grip safety would be depressed. If the hammer follows down because it failed to lock back after chambering the top round, that firing pin safety is still disengaged. It WOULD fire in that situation without the shooter pulling the trigger.

 

[rcmodel]

No, actually it wouldn't fire.

The series 80 hammer has no intercept notch like the older design, but it does have a "bump" on the hammer that catches on the sear and it slows the hammer enough to prevent full firing pin energy hitting the primer.

Unless the trigger is pulled to get the sear out of the way, it will not fire.

rcmodel

 

[unisonic12]

Hey, who let you out of the KTOG romper room, rcmodel?

 

[SuperNaut]

Aren't all 1911s like that?

Oddly enough steve4102's own brand is one of the exceptions. The Para LDA "1911's" can have the thumb safety engaged with the hammer down. That said, since the newer LDA's don't have a hammer spur I really don't want to know how one would utilize that "feature" with one in the pipe. *shudder*

 

[unisonic12]

Good point, SuperNaut.

 

[45auto]

It WOULD fire in that situation without the shooter pulling the trigger.

The series 80, i.e Colt, Para, Sig, AO, Taurus "types" have a FP block that is released only if you pull the trigger. If the hammer drops all the way down, it hits the FP...but the FP is blocked by the "plunger".

On a Kimber, S&W style FP block, the gun would fire as you stated, since the FP plunger is activated by the grip safety...and your holding the gun.

 

[unisonic12]

Yes, 45auto, you are absolutely correct. I forgot the series 80 safety was disengaged by the trigger. I knew that, honest! Didn't they mostly go away because people didn't like how it messed with the "holy grail" 1911 trigger and, by and large, move to a grip activated safety?

 

[gc70]

The series 80 hammer has no intercept notch like the older design, but it does have a "bump" on the hammer that catches on the sear and it slows the hammer enough to prevent full firing pin energy hitting the primer.

The follow-through stop ledge on a series 80 hammer does prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Series 80 hammers can be partially cocked, but the movement is small and not nearly as apparent as the half-cock position of pre-80 hammers.

 

[Calhoun321]

The series 80 did not go away or even fade away. Colt designed the system and has consistently used it. Some other companies continue to use the system too. IMHO, the series 80 does not interfere with a good trigger pull.

Edited to add in response to question: The drop tests that confirmed the 1911 would fire from a 10 foot fall was performed IIRC by the US Navy during the 50s or 60s. It has been years since I read it and I can't give a cite, but it does exist.