Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
A Storm or other similar pistol caliber carbine will do just fine for defense at home- IF you will do, that is. It's the shooter that matters more than the hardware.
lpl/nc
lpl/nc
How silly would a CX4-storm be for self defense?
- Thread starter Nitrogen
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geronimo13
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I forgot to return my ear plugs after disasembly of my .223 semi auto, 16" barrel and after firing lost my high notes in my right ear (partial deafness) for 3 MONTHES. The 9 mm pistol isn't anywhere near as loud.
I would like a sub2k too. I think a 9mm or any pistol cartridge in a rifle would be quite effective. To me the big advantage to a shoulder fired weapon is: better accuracy, quicker aquisition, much better range (150 yard), better ballistics (chrono reports on the sub2k add 200'/sec. over a pistol), and having a 30 round mag would be the kicker. The advantages of a .223 would be better ballistics, and quicker reloading with stripper clips. A PLR16 would be plenty small enough for close quarters and still has good 100 yd. accuracy. Keep the ear muffs next to the gun. I would like to have a 9mm sub gun w/ 3 30 round mags. The storm sounds like a good choice. You will practice a lot more because the 9mm is SO cheap. Practice makes perfect.
I would like a sub2k too. I think a 9mm or any pistol cartridge in a rifle would be quite effective. To me the big advantage to a shoulder fired weapon is: better accuracy, quicker aquisition, much better range (150 yard), better ballistics (chrono reports on the sub2k add 200'/sec. over a pistol), and having a 30 round mag would be the kicker. The advantages of a .223 would be better ballistics, and quicker reloading with stripper clips. A PLR16 would be plenty small enough for close quarters and still has good 100 yd. accuracy. Keep the ear muffs next to the gun. I would like to have a 9mm sub gun w/ 3 30 round mags. The storm sounds like a good choice. You will practice a lot more because the 9mm is SO cheap. Practice makes perfect.wacki
Member
I hope all of you people ragging on the storm realize that it comes in 45 ACP as well.
I'll stay with my AK. That little hellion makes it's presence well known, is light, and next to never fails (ammo only). I'm also pretty confident that it can shoot all the way through this crap box house I live in thus entertaining the idea of some "collateral cleanup" of the neighborhood.
And who is going to stick around for a guy pumping thirty round mags full of very loud death pills in their general direction??
So far as the CX4 is concerned, can you ever really have too many guns???? Justify it however you like.
And who is going to stick around for a guy pumping thirty round mags full of very loud death pills in their general direction??
So far as the CX4 is concerned, can you ever really have too many guns???? Justify it however you like.
Yosemite**Sam
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CX4 For Home Defense
This is a great thread and it's interesting to read both facts and opinions. I own a few firearms and when I retire to a gun friendly state I plan to use a CX4 for home defense. I currently teach LE officers to shoot rifle and handguns and I have shot both 9mm (mp5) and .223 rifles (AR-15). Someone here mentioned that the 9mm will over penetrate walls where as the .223 will break up. This is a fact as the .223 will generally break up upon impact due to higher velocity.
I personally prefer the 9mm for home defense as it has a mild report and very little recoil. The CX4 is a great point shooter type weapon. Very accurate. I believe that the biggest downfall for the CX4 is it's horrible trigger.
Good luck with your decision.
This is a great thread and it's interesting to read both facts and opinions. I own a few firearms and when I retire to a gun friendly state I plan to use a CX4 for home defense. I currently teach LE officers to shoot rifle and handguns and I have shot both 9mm (mp5) and .223 rifles (AR-15). Someone here mentioned that the 9mm will over penetrate walls where as the .223 will break up. This is a fact as the .223 will generally break up upon impact due to higher velocity.
I personally prefer the 9mm for home defense as it has a mild report and very little recoil. The CX4 is a great point shooter type weapon. Very accurate. I believe that the biggest downfall for the CX4 is it's horrible trigger.
Good luck with your decision.
accomplice
Member
I've owned several kinds of guns (ARs, AKs, HK clones, FS2000, etc.). The 9mm Storm that I had ran like a dream. It was probably the most reliable long gun I've owned short of my AKs. Going bang every time is about as crucial a characteristic when judging viability for home defense as any other in my book. It's also pretty inexpensive and very handy/ high in the pointability measure also. Have at it.
And what good are earmuffs? If you put them on you ain't going to hear the BG shuffling around behind you. If you have them off are you going to ask the BG for a moment while you put them on?
OTOH - if some BG gets a load of me with those big geen things on he might either die from laughing so hard or figure I'm some kind of psycho and high-tail it out of there.
telomerase
Member
He means the kind with mics built in.
ithacalover
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Home defence? There isn't much else the Storm seems suitable for. I've never understood the purpose of producing firearms like that. You only seem to see 9mm semi-auto carbines in the aftermath of school shootings anyways (nasty topic, I'll admit, but true). First with Columbine and lately with Dawson College in Montreal. And of course then the media fills pages with phrases like "high powered assault rifle" or "machine gun" of which the gun is neither.
A carbine in .223 serves a useful purpose. A 9mm Beretta pistol does, too. Why do we need the Beretta Storm?
A carbine in .223 serves a useful purpose. A 9mm Beretta pistol does, too. Why do we need the Beretta Storm?
I can't believe that no one has mentioned that the PX4 will take down a Cylon Centurian with a single head shot.
Personally, until we're all jumping through hyperspace in ship built from giant legos and battling 9" tall robots with PX4 that shoot super cool **exploding** ammunition, I'll stick to rifle calibers in my rifles and carbines and pistol calibers in my pistols, which I can conceal in my waistband.
A PX4 or other high quality pistol-cal carbine isn't a poor plebian's MP-9. It's a single action carbine for mall-ninjas who only shoot in indoor ranges.
Personally, until we're all jumping through hyperspace in ship built from giant legos and battling 9" tall robots with PX4 that shoot super cool **exploding** ammunition, I'll stick to rifle calibers in my rifles and carbines and pistol calibers in my pistols, which I can conceal in my waistband.
A PX4 or other high quality pistol-cal carbine isn't a poor plebian's MP-9. It's a single action carbine for mall-ninjas who only shoot in indoor ranges.
rallyhound
Member
Rounds on target are the only ones that count..
For me that means the storm.. I can put ten rounds on target faster with my 9mm storm than any other gun i own. I just shoot it better.
It also lighter and shorter than most rifles.
I also find it much easier to fire single handed, due to it's weight and balance, which may be useful in a home defense situation.
For me that means the storm.. I can put ten rounds on target faster with my 9mm storm than any other gun i own. I just shoot it better.
It also lighter and shorter than most rifles.
I also find it much easier to fire single handed, due to it's weight and balance, which may be useful in a home defense situation.
smince
Member.
Those of you decrying the pistol caliber carbine rounds probably wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of one, would you?
GrumpyBunny
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Beretta Carbine versus ?
New member here. Please pardon all my errors or occassional lack of social skills.
The Beretta carbine in a 9mm that started all this hype is an outstanding firearm. If one favors the 9mm and trains with / prefers a carbine for a home defense gun - so be it.
Like the new guy s23246, I too worked in law -enforcement - on the security guy side, packing whatever was required, 38 or 9mm mostly. On the 9mm packing, never had a requirement to actualy use it - but the BGs did! from a distance of 50 + feet these BGs managed to pump holes into each oher without a fatality. I guess shot-placement was not high on their training list but it should have been as one shooter was active duty military. All victims had multiple entry and exit wounds.
I did not like having to carry the mil-spec issue round of 115 graing FMJ which is what the BGs packed and fired.
Ya ever wonder why the military / LAPD are now going to 45's? Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. As a retired Marine, I would opt for a self defense round in .40 or .45 cals. Ballistics are similar. If I opted for a CHL / CCW / home defense firearm, The mil-spec Auto Ordnance 1911A1 is VERY HIGH on my must have list. While it will not penetrate good body armor, it will give the opponent some serious smacking. The subject firearm is available in .45. Not sure about the .40.
In CQC, such as one's home, I would HIGHLY recommend frangible cartridges of whatever caliber one intends to use. I also highly recomend a pistol over a carbine but don't forget a small flashlight such as a Streamlight Scorpion and a a laser dot device are also very good ideas which I again highly recommend.
For a situation like Katrina, the carbine is an outstanding alternate choice because of size and increased range while still being fairly compact.
If your budget and time are both limited, by a Mossburg 12 gauge shot gun with a mounted flashlight and a box of light load bird-shot shells. Just jacking a round in the chamber is enough to send anyone above the age of 14 into cold chills and the size will definitely make an impression!
New member here. Please pardon all my errors or occassional lack of social skills.
The Beretta carbine in a 9mm that started all this hype is an outstanding firearm. If one favors the 9mm and trains with / prefers a carbine for a home defense gun - so be it.
Like the new guy s23246, I too worked in law -enforcement - on the security guy side, packing whatever was required, 38 or 9mm mostly. On the 9mm packing, never had a requirement to actualy use it - but the BGs did! from a distance of 50 + feet these BGs managed to pump holes into each oher without a fatality. I guess shot-placement was not high on their training list but it should have been as one shooter was active duty military. All victims had multiple entry and exit wounds.
I did not like having to carry the mil-spec issue round of 115 graing FMJ which is what the BGs packed and fired.
Ya ever wonder why the military / LAPD are now going to 45's? Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. As a retired Marine, I would opt for a self defense round in .40 or .45 cals. Ballistics are similar. If I opted for a CHL / CCW / home defense firearm, The mil-spec Auto Ordnance 1911A1 is VERY HIGH on my must have list. While it will not penetrate good body armor, it will give the opponent some serious smacking. The subject firearm is available in .45. Not sure about the .40.
In CQC, such as one's home, I would HIGHLY recommend frangible cartridges of whatever caliber one intends to use. I also highly recomend a pistol over a carbine but don't forget a small flashlight such as a Streamlight Scorpion and a a laser dot device are also very good ideas which I again highly recommend.
For a situation like Katrina, the carbine is an outstanding alternate choice because of size and increased range while still being fairly compact.
If your budget and time are both limited, by a Mossburg 12 gauge shot gun with a mounted flashlight and a box of light load bird-shot shells. Just jacking a round in the chamber is enough to send anyone above the age of 14 into cold chills and the size will definitely make an impression!
I also wouldn't advise someone use a .22 short for home defense and wouldn't stand in front of one. You'll have to decide for yourself what size wound channel is acceptable enough, but a "real" rifle will make a much larger one than any pistol caliber round. I see it as a voluntary handicapping.
To each his own, seldom do you see those who worry about ballistics of 9mm, .40 and .45 go to frangibles though...
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Punch -vs- Noise
If I could be sure that I always had ear gear for such an event, I might be tempted to use a "real" rifle for HD.
Without ear gear, I would have to choose something with adequate punch that's not going to cost me my hearing. (Yes, I hear you at the back saying "what good is hearing if you're dead?")
I've never fired a 586 in an enclosed space, but I'll just bet it's almost as good as a stage seat at a rock concert. Now, that same "pistol" cartridge fired from the 1894C would gain another 250 mph or so, yet yield a lower auditory trauma. If I'm really worried about stomping power, I'm thinking that would be "acceptable."
But, back to the topic, I think my hearing would survive the CX4. It balances well, I point well with it. And 15 rounds (20 if I use mag #2) of 9mm jhp +p will flat ruin anyone's day.
I have them both, but I guess the only way to be sure is to schedule a couple of break-ins and use one on the first night, and the other on the next.
I would, of course, file a range/field report with y'all.
If I could be sure that I always had ear gear for such an event, I might be tempted to use a "real" rifle for HD.
Without ear gear, I would have to choose something with adequate punch that's not going to cost me my hearing. (Yes, I hear you at the back saying "what good is hearing if you're dead?")
I've never fired a 586 in an enclosed space, but I'll just bet it's almost as good as a stage seat at a rock concert. Now, that same "pistol" cartridge fired from the 1894C would gain another 250 mph or so, yet yield a lower auditory trauma. If I'm really worried about stomping power, I'm thinking that would be "acceptable."
But, back to the topic, I think my hearing would survive the CX4. It balances well, I point well with it. And 15 rounds (20 if I use mag #2) of 9mm jhp +p will flat ruin anyone's day.
I have them both, but I guess the only way to be sure is to schedule a couple of break-ins and use one on the first night, and the other on the next.
I would, of course, file a range/field report with y'all.
berettashotgun
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I think, heck- I KNOW, the little carbine would work excellent as a H.D. weapon. Even be better if you could mount a bayonet charge with it. Nah, it would be an excellent choice- MUCH better than almost everyone believes, as your accuracy would be ten fold during times of stress with a carbine vs. a sidearm. "Just jacking a round in the chamber is enough to send anyone above the age of 14 into cold chills and the size will definitely make an impression" I giggle uncontrollably whenever I hear this- my youngest boy ( now 18 ) heard this once when he was a little tyke; his reply was "nobody ever crapped their pants when we went hunting"
Nah, it would be an excellent choice- MUCH better than almost everyone believes, as your accuracy would be ten fold during times of stress with a carbine vs. a sidearm. "Just jacking a round in the chamber is enough to send anyone above the age of 14 into cold chills and the size will definitely make an impression" I giggle uncontrollably whenever I hear this- my youngest boy ( now 18 ) heard this once when he was a little tyke; his reply was "nobody ever crapped their pants when we went hunting"The venerable 9MM has killed hundreds of thousands (maybe millions). Most all were dispatched to the afterlife at distances of less than 50 feet. Unless you live in a palace with rooms exceeding 50 feet, your Storm would be fired at CQB distances - just as was intended when the 9MM was designed. The longer barrel length of the CX4 (as compared to a similarly chambered pistol) provides additional advantages. The Storm doesn't just pass for HD, it is a damn good choice. Pick up a few of the 30 round mags and you'll feel even safer.
Yes I think a pistol round carbine ala CX4 9mm is acceptable for HD and probably better suited in some person's "home" and not so good for another's. It is good to have some choices though (not exactly a CX4 but close enough):
Also have a couple 12 ga to choose from in the same pile.
Edit: Yikes this is an old thread, did not realize. Pretty much a topic that comes up often though.
Also have a couple 12 ga to choose from in the same pile.
Edit: Yikes this is an old thread, did not realize. Pretty much a topic that comes up often though.
Last edited:
mgregg85
Member
Sorry but that makes no sense, why would you be better off with a pistol in the same caliber that is harder to shoot accurately?
I'd take my 9mm sub-2000(glock grip) over a glock pistol in a fight anyday, easier to make hits with the longer sight radius and improved sights.
Whew, didn't realize how old this thread was.
skeet king
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the 9 mm won't fly through your walls and kill the neighbor compared to a 5.56 I still like the 12 gauge though
Mass-Diver
Member
As others have posted, lots of LEOs and military personnel seem pretty confident in the MP5 (even these days). So, I don't have a problem with with +P 9mm HPs for home defense.
My question, though, is why didn't Beretta give the Storm a true pistol grip? Is it a tactical design, a legal thing?
My question, though, is why didn't Beretta give the Storm a true pistol grip? Is it a tactical design, a legal thing?
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