How would you explain to somebody why semi-autos aren't evil?

[Oana]

Since you've explained the difference between a semi-auto and an auto, she might be interested in this video, which illustrates the difference between a semi-auto and an auto, and how a semi-auto can be changed to look like an "evil assault rifle" with a few simple changes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

 

[illspirit]

How about having your friend watch the first five seconds of the intro to The Rifleman program from the '50s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9r_XEfcLtw

Then point out to her that Chuck Conners just "spray fired" a dozen rounds "from the hip" with a lever-action rifle design that's about 140 years old. A feat which, according to the Brady bunch, is somehow only possible with a pistol grip on an "assault weapon" with a "high capacity" magazine.

 

[Juna]

I like that lever action video. Good counter the antis.

And in belaboring the difference, it puts us in the unfortunate position of giving the appearance of conceding fully automatic arms in civilian hands.

Good point. I agree. The difference is irrelevant to our IIA RKBA.

I thought civilians could obtain fully-automatic firearms. They just have to jump through a lot of bureaucratic hoops to obtain the proper licenses.

Well, only in certain states, and yes, you have to pay a $200 tax stamp and jump through a lot of hoops. Ever checked the price of any automatic firearm? Some are far more than most cars I've owned (due to limited supply b/c you can only own automatic weapons built and sold over 20 years ago). That's what I call infringement.

It makes it so that lower income people cannot have access to those firearms, which is an elitist attempt at a back door ban. It's like proposing an ammunition tax so high that no one can afford to shoot and then arguing that you still can legally shoot. Banning is not the only form of infringement of our IIA rights.

 

[armedandsafe]

I have gone through this several times. The most effective tactic I have used follows:

I place a cleared and checked semi (Ruger P85) and a cleared and checked revolver (Dan Wesson .357) on the table. I then ask the person what happens if I load the revolver and pull the trigger.

It fires.

What happens if I pull the trigger again?

It fires.

And again?

It fires.

Then I pick up the semi and go through the same litany.

What happens if I load the semi and pull the trigger?

It fires.

What happens if I pull the trigger again?

It fires.

And again?

It fires.

The light dawns.

Pops

 

[ranger335v]

Ask if she thinks auto transmissions in cars should be banned because they make it to easy for careless fools to drive and for crooks to steal them?

Ignorance is the lack of knowledge and that can be fixed, it seems you are going the right way with her. Unfortunately, stupidity is the inability to learn and that can't be fixed. Our news and entertainment media, public education system and many politicians are simply stupid.

 

[eric.cartman]

Profesional Help: http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/problem_detail.asp?SDID=212:1603

 

[learn2shoot]

Profesional Help: http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/p...?SDID=212:1603

Is that site for real or is it a spoof?

 

[General Geoff]

A gun has no will of its own, and thus cannot be evil.

It's that simple.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

A few years ago we had a drug-related ambush and murder in nearby
Bristol TN-VA. The killers used two H&R single-shot, single barrel hinge
action shotguns.

Last month I partcipated in Modern Military and Vintage Military matches.
I shot an AK47 rifle, CZ52 pistol, M1A1 carbine, M1911A1 pistol at
cardboard. All semi-auto military firearms, and nobody died.

A successful semi-auto ban might (if heck froze over) have kept me
from having semi-autos at a peaceful (noisy but peaceful) sporting
event.

A successful semi-auto ban would not have kept the murderers from
killing.

Over a period of about two years a mister Fields committed three of
the last nine murders in my home town. He stabbed a woman at the
boardinghouse and was caught later after beating two men to death
with a baseball bat.

A means is not an actor and a means is not a motive. The woman was
not killed by a knife, but with a knife by a man; the two men were not
killed by a baseball bat, but with a baseball bat by a man.

Guns are not evil and do not do evil things; only people are capable of evil.
And people can do evil with or without guns.

 

[benEzra]

Point out that the pistol your local police officer carries on her hip is a semiauto.

Semiautos ARE "ordinary defensive pistols/rifles/shotguns."

It sounds like your friend is confusing semiautos with automatic weapons.

An analogy may be helpful. An ordinary office stapler is semiautomatic (staples once and only once when pressed, will not staple again until released and pressed a second time). A sewing machine is automatic (lays down stitches continuously until you either let off the pedal or it runs out of thread).

Automatic firearms are tightly controlled by Federal law and have been for a long time, a fact she may not be aware of.

 

[yhtomit]

An analogy may be helpful. An ordinary office stapler is semiautomatic (staples once and only once when pressed, will not staple again until released and pressed a second time). A sewing machine is automatic (lays down stitches continuously until you either let off the pedal or it runs out of thread).

Hey, that's a great analogy, and one I've not run into before -- thanks.

Of course, the problem is that the conditioning runs deep

Guns are bad.
Guns are bad.
Why?
Guns are bad.

Reason is only useful as a tool of persuasion for people who choose to use it

timothy

 

[mgregg85]

You could try explaining the legal reasons why the founding fathers included the 2nd amendment in the bill of rights and why semi-automatic weapons are necessary as a deterrent to possible tyranny. The weapons they used to fight the British utilized the same technology as the brown bess muskets the British were using. They intended for each and every citizen to legally be able to own something equivalent to the military's current firepower and capabilities. Today that would mean at least semi-automatic if not fully automatic.

I always like to use the comparison arguments with knives and cars as examples or you could explain that people were murdered before the invention of firearms and sadly human nature is the cause of such things, not the access to firearms.

 

[obxned]

On what did she base her judgement that a semi-auto is evil?

 

[10 Ring Tao]

Lol, only used to maim large groups? Looks like shes taken the brady talking points hook line and sinker.

Simply point out a wood stocked remington 7400, and then make sure she understands that that gun is identical in function to an AK.

 

[innerpiece]

so a bullet from a wheel gun is less effective that a bullet from an auto loader?!
less evil?!

the rate at which a gun is fired, is dictated by the threat.. forgive me if im ready for more than one thret.........
ip.

 

[Archangel]

I have gone through this several times. The most effective tactic I have used follows:

I place a cleared and checked semi (Ruger P85) and a cleared and checked revolver (Dan Wesson .357) on the table. I then ask the person what happens if I load the revolver and pull the trigger.

It fires.

What happens if I pull the trigger again?

It fires.

And again?

It fires.

Then I pick up the semi and go through the same litany.

What happens if I load the semi and pull the trigger?

It fires.

What happens if I pull the trigger again?

It fires.

And again?

It fires.

The light dawns.

Pops

Even better if you use a S&W 327 (8 shot .357 revolver) and a Colt Officer's Model (6 shot .45 auto).

 

[ozwyn]

Semi-automatic pistols can be argued as being more friendly to women and the elderly. The mechanism allowing for self-loading and springs inthe design tend to reduce felt recoil to the shooter.

This means that people who could not handle the recoil of heavy revolver loads often have a MUCH better time shooting equivalent effectiveness loads in semi-automatics.

In other words - its about giving everyone the right to use adequate defensive calibers, not just people accumosted to recoil.

Semi autos aren't evil, they are FAIR, even democratic in the manner they can bring larger caliber rounds to more people

that's my bs .02 argument. And Yes, take her to a range. The range solves a lot of issues with first hand experience. Have her shoot a wheelgun with full .357 and then shoot a 9mm. (some would argue the caliber differences are not fair, but in terms of actual usable choices they line up ok in terms of budget and popularity)

 

[Deanimator]

My sense is that a) she thinks that semi-auto means "machine gun" and b) that there probably are other good arguments for semi-auto (and full auto) firearms to be legal (other than the fact that they are fun to shoot, of course, which won't hold water) : )

That's almost always the case. Josh Sugerman (VPC?) made a conscious effort to confuse semi-automatic and full-auto firearms.

Nine times out of ten, when I have that conversation with someone, they have absolutely NO idea of the difference.

After I explain it, I always make sure that they know that they've been LIED to.

 

[Deanimator]

so a bullet from a wheel gun is less effective that a bullet from an auto loader?!
less evil?!

Just as a 7.62x39mm is more powerful than a .30-06.

Above all else, you must never forget that like Holocaust denial, gun control advocacy is based first and foremost on deceit and the exploitation of the ignorant.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

One of the antis showed the difference between a pre-ban
AK47 (with bayonet lug, muzzle brake, cleaning rod and
seperate pistol grip) and a AWB compliant AK47 (no bayonet
lug, no muzzle brake, no cleaning rod, and thumbhole stock)
by firing the pre-ban into a cinder block wall (making big holes)
then firing the compliant AK47 into the dirt while showing
the cinder blocks unscathed.

It was a totally bogus comparison, even CNN caught on to it,
but most non-gun people are easily duped by the fear-mongers.

(what has the presence of a cleaning rod under the barrel got
to do with lethality of weapon anyway, even though it is a
"military feature"?)

Josh Sugarman of National Coalition to Ban Handguns (now
Violence Policy Center) did remark that the general public
is easily duped about the semi-auto/machinegun confusion
and during the AWB even Fox News showed full-auto Uzis
blazing away in video while the voice-over talked about
banning semi-autos.

 

[Alex45ACP]

It's not only about defending yourself from common criminals. It's primarily about defending yourself from agents of the State. Show her pictures of Nazi concentration camps and explain to her that the point of keeping & bearing arms is so you don't end up like those people.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

Evil?

Anyone who would assign a behaviorial trait to an inanimate mechanism has issues beyond my pay grade.

A round downrange is the result of a combination of deliberate mechanical actions initiated by a human being upon physical manipulation of such mechanical devices designed to expel projectiles either singularly or with varying cyclic rates of repitition at velocities known to be injurious/fatal to all life forms upon impact/penetration.

 

[Anonymous Coward]

Most everyone here is being silly.

The reason she thinks semi-autos are evil is probably because they are more effective at shooting innocent bystanders than are revolvers, bolt-action rifles or pump shotguns.

You'd have better luck explaining to her that semi-autos are effective self-defense weapons, for a number of reasons. Oleg Volk's website features a well-written counterargument here

If you're lobbying on behalf of semi-automatic rifles, you could point out how rarely rifles of any sort are used in crime.

 

[def4pos8]

I agree: take her shooting.

Show her a BUNCH of Oleg Volk's stuff!

Failing that, take a semantic clue from my ---- well, from my German friends. What we generally describe as a semi-auto they call a "self-loading" weapon, whether rifle, shotgun or handgun. A Class III automatic weapon is described by them as a "machine rifle" or "machine cannon".

I think the French snuck all this "automatic" verbiage (Fusil Automatique Legier) into our English when we weren't paying attention.

 

[Titan6]

This one is pretty easy. Make her prove they are evil. Since she can't this will be a long, frustrating, fruitless conversation. But she has to come to this realization on her own.