How would you explain to somebody why semi-autos aren't evil?

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It's simple common sense. Inanimate objects can't be evil. Only sentient beings can show evil intent or actions. Seeing as a semi-auto (or any other type of) firearm are NOT sentient beings and ARE inanimate objects, they cannot be evil.
 
Well now your friend knows the difference between semi and full auto but still thinks semiautomatic firearms are evil. She may think that based on the way the media jumps all over high profile shootings which usually involve semi-automatic guns.

Like some others have said, take her shooting with a variety of firearms, say a single shot .22, bolt .22, and semi .22. Show her how to load and fire each type. It is important that she do all loading/unloading herself. Start her off on the single shot for a 50 rd box of ammo. Then let her use the bolt for a 50 rd box of ammo. Then give her the semiauto .22 for the 3rd 50 rd box.

If she still is unable to appreciate why the semiauto is very good for saving her a lot of work, then she will never see the light. Or she has a very good work ethic.
 
Another suggestion...

Show her a semi-auto pistol and a double action revolver.

Revolver - "simple" and "good":rolleyes:
Semi - "Complex" and "evil":rolleyes:

Then show her that each fires once with the pull of the trigger. So at the most basic level of operation the "good" revolver and the "evil" semi work the same except one brings a new cartridge into use mechanicly and the other with recoil. Show her that the "good" revolver can be shot just about as fast as the "evil" semi-auto.

Keep up the good work.
 
Forgetting some of our traditional arguements, and forgetting the technicals of automatic verses semi-automatic firearms, we have to recognize that there are fundimental world-view incompatibilities within our culture. Sadly, no arguement we can make -- in most cases-- will be very effective in pursuading those of the anti-gun lobby or mindset.

Our arguements will fall on deaf ears because of the old axiom "there are none so blind as those who will not see."

Our arguements will fail because the anti-gun crowd BEGINS with the assumption that guns are bad, evil, immoral, whatever. When you begin with the desired conclusion as your hypothesis, you are practicing intellectual dishonesty.


In our society, it is comfortable to blame an ITEM rather than a PERSON. In our world of psychoanalysis and sensitivity, we are unwilling to squarely place blame for tragedies on the person who made a willful decision to commit an act. No. Those of the anti-gun camp NEED to have faith in humanity in order to live in thier comfortable bubble. To achieve this, they develop a thought process that asserts that the tradegy would not have occured if the perpetrator did not have the ABILITY to take that action. You see, ABILITY IS EQUATED TO ACTION in this mindset.

You can't wholely lay the blame on them for this irrationality. What passes for news media and crime shows in this country has basically made a lot of "intellectual" and "enlightened" people into idiots-- blathering idiots, at that.

I've referenced on a number of posts that-- because of my job-- I sit in front of a TV 8-9 hours a day with either CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, MSNBC, or Foxnews on EVERY working day. After years of this, I think I have a fairly good-- if unscientific-- idea of these stations.

News has become entertainment shows. There is less "News" in the news than there is editoralizing. Because of the "Real-Time" quality of news programs now, reporters and anchors are not only free to, but REQUIRED to make commentary on what is going on AS IT IS HAPPENING. They are free from the harrassment of fact-checkers and research. Instead, they have to spout that they BELIEVE as absolute facts. These facts are rarely accurate, and falsehoods are never specifically retracted. False statements that are caught are handled by just altering the statements in future reporting.

However, the damage is done since most of us grap a kernal of news here and there-- and cannot sit all day to wait for them to correct. Those falsehoods become fact once the NEWS said it.

In a desire to make news 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, requires discussion of issues CONSTANTLY. This usually goes the direction of over-reactive and purely idiotic debate in order to engage the audience.

Just this week, a 4 year-old had used a deactivated cell phone to dial 911 almost 300 times in a month. Surely enough, Fox news had a debate shortly after the discussion asking the question "Should deactivated cell phones be able to dial 911."


Earlier, the question was asked "Should the USA go to a London-style surviellence system?" after the London attempted bombing.

Every news story-- regardless of the topic-- becomes a discussion of radical alteration of culture and policy based upon rare and isolated events.


For the record, CNN, MSNBC, and Fox are tied for first in this "editoralizing" quality of the news. CNBC is great in that they don't really care unless the stock market will react. Bloomberg TV is probably one of the best programs to obtain news from if you want the facts laid out for you with no spin or commentary. Just get used to the split screens and reading a ticker.


I sincerly hope people would not get their understanding of firearms from "cop" shows-- but you KNOW they are.

I can't watch an episode of the various incarnations of CSI or Law and Order without blatent falsehoods being present. They have a need to make everything more sinister than it is. This works on the "enlightened" anti-gun crowd.



Through this rambling diatribe, I have tried to decide how I would tie to the main point I wished to make. Because I'm still on my first cup of coffee and the fog of sleep hasn't lifted quite yet, I'll make a jerky transition much like teaching a kid to drive a standard transmission.


I often think that John Lennon has done more harm to our culture and society than anyone I can think of when he wrote 'Imagine." He held before us a vision of a Eutopian, Enlightened culture of mankind where violence and hatred does not exist. Benevolence and goodwill are the normal. Greed and anger do not exist.

Sure, its nice to think about. It is a flight of fantasy. Sadly, however, a certain percentage of our society see that ideal and those that have been shaped by Lennon's ideals as an obtainable goal. They so desire to live in such a world that they have lost thier understanding of society at its very core.

The "Enlightened" anti-gun crowd, for the most part, cannot be pursuaded because they do not want to focus their eyes squarely on the REAL problem.

It isn't firearms. It's people. Thier world-view does not have an answer for addressing the evil in people. Oh, I am not saying that PEOPLE as a whole are evil. Quite the contrary. Most people are decent and good folk. However, none can dispute that we have examples of truly evil people in our society and our history. It need not be a Ted Bundy or a Cho. Those have become icons of evil. We have examples in the mundane rapist sitting in San Quintin to look to. Sadly, evil is not as scarce as we would hope it to be.

This quality in some persons is what throws a monkey-wrench in the world view of the "Enlightened." The world they envision cannot fit an evil person into the equation and make it work. Grasping at straws, they seek to explain away the evil in terms of psychological condition and attempt to rehabilitate and "cure" the person. Hell, there is even a pill to CURE SHYNESS now.

In the interim of "curing" our society, we must minimalize the potential harm that those poor psychologically-destressed persons can do to themselves and others. To achieve that end, the TOOLS used must be eliminated. This goes back to the ability. In this thought-process, an assumptive hypothesis functions where a person would not CHOOSE a destructive course of action had they not had the ABILITY to do it. The reasoning is that a fanciful desire or thought may enter the mind, but because there is no real ability to follow through that desire or thought, it becomes a fleeting and forgotten thought without the ability to see it through. Again, the premise is that it was the ABILITY-- not the desire-- that was evil. You see how it is convientently the tool and not the person that bears the blame.


I will close this VERY long discourse with this thought:


It will always be something with the anti-gun visonaries.

Today, we must get rid of assault rifles and semi-automatics.

Next, it will be those bolt action "Sniper" rifles.

Later, it will be anything that is not single shot.

After that, they will want to ban anything that has rifling in the barrel because they are too accurate and easy to make a lethal shot.

We will all be using Liberator .45ACPs for firearms before they get around to just getting rid of ALL guns.



If you read all of this, I am astounded by your diligence and I thank you for that.



All the best!


-- John
 
I'm late to this thread, but the word semi-automatic has been intentionally demonized by the anti's. The best way to counteract this is by simply saying "a semi-automatic only shoots one time each time you pull the trigger."
If the situation is right, one can go on to discuss WHY the anti's have intentionally capitalized on the misunderstanding of this word, and go on to explain similar uses of words like "assault rifle." If the person is truly open to debate, and not a religiously committed gun banner, this can be a real eye opener for them.
Marty
 
It's quite simple. The only times an anti hears about guns is when someone has been murdered. They only associate guns with murder, therefore guns are evil. They only hear about semi-autos in mass shootings, therefore semi-autos are only for mass murder. Never do they hear about guns (or specifically semi-autos) used to protect lives. They never hear of them being used for sport.

It's a simple question of media exposure. People are afraid to fly because they hear about every plane crash in the country. If they heard about every fatal car crash in the country every day, they'd never get in a car. Since we hear about every shooting in the country with more than two victims, they figure is has to be pretty common.

It's also the ratio of news stories about legitimate uses vs. illegitimate uses. It distorts their perception about the legitimacy of a tool. Almost every news story about guns involves someone getting shot. If baseball weren't on TV, and every story involving a bat involved someone being clubbed to death, they'd be calling for bat control. Since baseball is on TV, and many people play, their perception of the baseball bat is that it has legitimate uses but could be used for illegitimate purposes.

So, the solution is simple. Get as much publicity as possible for the legitimate uses of guns, and specifically semi-autos, and you will change people's perceptions.
 
Show then gas shut off valve on a FAL or Yugo SKS. Ask if the evil nature of the rifle, an inanimate object, changed with the flip of that valve.
 
More people are killed by cars with automatic transmissions than manual. Does that make automatic transmissions evil? Is owning a car with an automatic transmission a sign that you are planning on crashing and killing yourself and others?
 
More people are killed by cars with automatic transmissions than manual. Does that make automatic transmissions evil? Is owning a car with an automatic transmission a sign that you are planning on crashing and killing yourself and others?

Acutally the vehicular comparison would be something like this:

A fully-automatic vehicle, such as a car, truck or SUV, keeps going as long as you step on the gas pedal and have gas in the tank. A semi-automatic vechicle would only turn the wheels once before you had to lift your foot and step on the gas again. A non-automatic vehicle is a bicycle.
 
I don't think I'd go into it.

I'd take time to explain the mechanical advantages and disadvantages of the action(s) but to try to dissipate an anthropomorphic attribute (evil) that has been placed on an inanimate object?

Obviously I'm dealing with a fool, zealot or baiter.

Soakers, suffers fools poorly.
 
A semi-auto handgun is nothing but a couple of pounds of inanimate steel that's been molded into a particular shape. The only evil involved is the person holding it.
 
There are all sorts of techincal arguments that can be made in support of the semi-auto as a preferred firearm design.

But, in the end, it comes down to this:
The Second Amendment is NOT about target-shooting or hunting.

I like to ask the anti's this question:
"Who defends your house?"
I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from an anti.
 
She thinks the purpose of semi-autos is hurt or kill large groups of people? Well, that would depend entirely on the operator, wouldn't it?

My point is, a decent person with a semi (or fully) automatic weapon is no threat. A person with the intent of killing large amounts of people... well, that's obviously another story.

A tool is only as evil as its user.
 
I really dislike the "But it's not an evil machine gun!" argument for as to why semi-autos are OK.
 
And in belaboring the difference, it puts us in the unfortunate position of giving the appearance of conceding fully automatic arms in civilian hands.
Good point. I agree. The difference is irrelevant to our IIA RKBA.
You agree that civilians shouldn't be allowed to have fully automatic weapons? Why is that? It doesn't seem to follow from the rest of your post.
 
Well I would start with finding out what they already know, it is important to know what they know and how or where they came to that conclusion. Then start from there. This is why reading so many different sources is necessary.
 
Ellie said:
So, given that this is a dear friend who held my hand while I cried over the death of my newborn son, and not somebody who I wish to cream, how would you answer her?

First, I am so sorry for your loss.

Second, I understand where you are coming from. Only one of my friends is open minded about guns the rest are anti gun. My family is not into guns but not anti gun so this topic really doesn't come up with them. But I am not interested in insulting my friends and this subject does come up.

To tell you the truth.... when I describe the BG in my life and how afraid I am my friends admit they are a bit more gun friendly.

I have handled it this way. I explain that some of the problem is the changes in the drugs and how when someone is hyped up on them they are extra hard to stop and can be very violent. I show them some information I have found here or there on line about examples of someone needing to be shot several times to prevent them from trying to kill someone. I explain that what we see in movies is not accurate.... one shot well placed might cause someone to drop to the ground, but that many times that is not the case.

I also talk about what is a semi and a "regular gun" and how really there is not a huge difference. My gun holds 12 rounds (plus one in the chamber). A revolver might hold five or six bullets. But they both shoot fast. And with reloads someone who is fast with a revolver speed loader could shoot as much and as fast with either gun. However, I don't shoot revolvers very well. They don't fit my hand well.

In the end, my semi auto is not any more dangerous then a "regular gun".

Taking them shooting is a great idea. So far none of them will go with me but I have tried that. I also talk about how much fun I am having with my sport. I focus on how this is for self defense but that it is also a fun sport to target shoot. And a semi auto is very fun to shoot. (I am sure revolvers are too.... but so far I haven't shot one I liked.)

When people hear "auto's" even with the "semi" before it many times they think "machine gun". They hear lots of weird slogans and so forth by anti gun people but don't really know the truth. It might not work to explain, but it is worth a try.
 
She agrees with me that "simple guns for self-defense" are ok, but not semi-autos "which are only used to kill and maim large groups."
Can she then agree to eliminate police ownership of semi-auto weapons? Or do patrol officers have the need to kill or maim large groups of people?
 
1. Semi-autos are not machine guns. When she knows that, she's be more open to listen to the rest.

2. Alot of people don't go down immediately after the first shot hits them. You might need repeat fire on the same aggressor to stop the attack.

That's probably all she needs to know. Use the self-defense issue of the second part since you already agree on that.
 
Kudos to you on your efforts. I sympathize as I too have dear friends who've been there through times of loss, but who are unfortunately brain-washed antis. And, they are as ignorant of firearms and self-defense (I mean ignorant as in "uninformed", not as a perjorative) as your friend, if not more so. It irks me when I hear them repeat ridiculous arguments from the antis, especially along the lines of "nothing different would have happened at Virginia Tech if one of those students had had a gun". With anyone else they'd get a scalding blast of sarcasm, but I can't with these friends.

Keep doing what you're doing with your anti friend, and imo remember, baby steps. I agree with all of the arguments put forth by the people here as to exactly why it's ridiculous that semi-autos are evil. But someone like your friend who thinks she knows something like that isn't going to make a radical change of view quickly, it goes against human nature. Keep chipping one thing at a time. Especially important I think is to let her see that you have some of these evil things and you're not nuts/crazy/dangerous etc.

My wife used to roll her eyes at my gun hobby, and she got somewhat irritated when I started CCWing. I knew better than to argue, but I simply stuck quietly to my guns (I did make sure that every time an armed robbery or something bad happened in our area, several times a week, that the newspaper got left open to that story where she'd find it) and continued to carry, and to lock up my gun when I couldn't carry. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I know she noticed me carefully securing the piece and then checking it and reholstering when we'd come back) After a few months she on her own got rid of her predjudices, and got more tolerant of my new habits. A few more months, and she actually got her own CWP and her own CCW piece for the same reasons I did, and will even go to the range with me to stay proficient with her piece (and she is a better shot than I am). I'm thrilled of course, but I am convinced it was the slow and steady daily display of what I knew to be true that gradually convinced her. Had I tried to "reason" (argue?) with her, she'd have dug in her heels and nothing would have changed. Hopefully prolonged exposure to the truth (that armed, responsible people make everyone safer) being demonstrated, not discussion or argument, will help you in your quest with your friend.
 
She agrees with me that "simple guns for self-defense" are ok, but not semi-autos "which are only used to kill and maim large groups." When I pointed out that they are handy for defense from groups of people, she stated her belief that this is rare and the harm to society outweighs any good.
I suppose with this thinking she will soon urge her chief of police and sheriff to arm their officers and deputies with revolvers.

Pilgrim
 
Have them read any one of a number of good books about the American or the Russian Germ Warfare Programs. If I were Evil, Thank God I am not, and in charge of a Country I would not use nuclear weapons for fear of retaliation, and I would not use conventional weapons for the same reason. I would develop a deadly mutant virus or germ with a latent stage and of course a cure, and transport the virus or germ to a third world country or my enemy country whoever that would be letting it start there and be blamed, letting millions die if no one else developed a cure and even millions in my own country before the cure I had held in secret is amazingly discovered and brought to light and distributed just to throw off blame and making me a hero. I love firearms but they are primitive. There are a lot of things more important to worry about. Not saying it was not caused naturally, but read about the the millions who died of the so called Spanish Flu after WWI. Infrastructure is left intact, it's just the people who are gone.
 
Semi-auto's aren't evil? But what about EBR's? what will we call them without the evil part? BR's? That's not anywhere near as exciting...:neener:
 
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