chaim
Member
While I don't know the law where you are, here you are wrong. Security is allowed to make mistakes so long as they acted reasonably. They cannot detain because an associate or manager saw something, they have to have seen either the shoplifting or something that looked like it either in person or on camera. If they lost a law suit every time they were wrong most major department stores would be out of business. You would have to show that they were completely unreasonable in their suspicions or that there was some kind of pattern of discrimination in who they choose to search. When I was a manager at the department store there were quite a few mistakes and many of those people threatened the store with lawsuits (assuming just what you are assuming), a few actually hired lawyers, and not one lawsuit was ever settled or lost by my store. As for your example, I was not a security guard there, even as a manager they kept us in the dark about much of the specifics (we were their main targets as the majority of retail loss to theft is internal), but my guess is on its face there isn't enough info- it would depend on other factors as well that they are looking at (looking for cameras or employees before making your move, mannerisms, patterns of similar behavior, etc.).--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, they do not have to actually see you take something, if it looks on the security camera like you might have taken something that is probable cause to search you.
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Wrong. Hope that store enjoys the lawsuit because of what a few guards seem to "think" happened. So if half the camera is pointing at you, you pick up an item out of sight, put it back, and then put your hand in your pocket in sight, according to your analogy that would be enough to search me
Since long before I was born (and probably you too). Here in MD pretty much the only catagory that can fairly easily get a CCW license is a business owner who carries large sums of cash or who is in a class of business that is a likely target (i.e. gun dealers, jewelry stores). Supposedly with a documented, and continuing, death threat you can get a CCW but many such people are turned down. Personal defense isn't good enough, in fact the application directly states that "personal defense" is not a valid reason to approve a carry permit. Carrying large sums of cash (and being able to document it) for your business is almost "shall issue" easy. Another, essentially "shall issue" catagory is people employed as armed security- if you are employed in such a position and you can legally own a gun you will get a carry permit.Since when does the property of a business become more valuable than the property of a homeowner? Are businesses some sort of "super-citizens" with more rights than the rest of us?
Is it fair, heck no! I'd prefer TX law where both businesses and "the little guy" are allowed to do what they need to in order to protect their property. Though I do not advocate shooting someone over a car, it would be nice if we could detain them, use force if needed, and even defend ourself with a gun if attacked, without being arrested "because we shouldn't have gone out there knowing they were stealing the car, you should leave that to the police".
Whitebear has a very good point. In most cases, what we are talking about isn't petty harrassment. Businesses are in business to make money and can't afford to antagonize their customers. Most decent retail security officers will be very sure they are right before stopping someone. They have, at minimum, a very good idea that something has been stolen. This is indeed a serious problem. As much as 25-50% (depending upon the industry) of the retail price of many goods is due to "shortage". You wouldn't believe how many millions of dollars per store, per quarter a major department store can lose to internal theft (employees shoplifting or taking from the till) and external theft (shoplifting), and no I can't give specific numbers from the store I used to work for (first, its been a few years so I don't remember the exact number, and two I can't get any more specific than "millions per store per quarter" due to the fact that it is considered a trade secret that they don't want getting to their competitors- and yes even as a former manager I am legally and ethically bound to protect any trade secrets I know).Giant Electronics World (GEW) has a serious "inventory shrinkage" problem. So, they electronically tag their merchandise, and use uniformed, but unarmed security officers to watch the doors in an attempt to cut down on the amount of product walking away by itself.
They do this because hiring the guard reduces some amount of shoplifting, thus reducing the cost of lost goods which must be passed on to the consumer to keep the company in business.
Anyway, I understand the frustration of someone caught up in the security net (so to speak) who hasn't actually done something. I've been there. Long before I was a manager I was suspected of a $600 theft because I rung up someone who won a free shopping spree and my boss was slow to get the paperwork through the proper channels. Since they didn't have the paperwork all security saw was that I rung up $600 worth of stuff and marked it down to $0. Yes it was a PITA, I was taken to a small room with no windows. I had one guard in back of me, and one (the security manager) in front of me. They wouldn't tell me what they thought I did, only that they "know what you did. Tell us now and we won't have you arrested, you'll only lose your job. Don't tell us and you go to jail." Luckily for me I eventually figured out what probably looked suspicious to them (it was about a week prior), explained it, they checked on it and I was OK (though they never acknowleged that was what they suspected). I worked there another year and a half before leaving and came back a few years later as a manager. If I had been a suspected shoplifter it would have been easier (I had been up there almost 2 hours). They would have checked my bags and receipts and if everything was there I'd be sent on my way. Yes, it is a PITA, but the billions of dollars lost every year to theft in the retail industry makes it necessary- and sometimes some of us (the good guys) get erroniously suspected.