If we have another AWB...

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LkWinnipesaukee

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aka an AWB that bans evil looking rifles (ARs AKs, etc) will that make the price of grandfathered rifles go up? If I buy 10 AR receivers at $100 each today, could they be worth way more in a few years?


Just hypothetical... maybe the AWB cant be all that bad...
 
Actually, LKWinnipausaki's position is essentially that taken by 2 groups-
  1. Gun dealers who hope to make $$$$
  2. People with some money who are looking for an investment

With items that were grandfathered but transferable, there is a potential for profit. However, it is also possible for the government to pass a ban requiring you to 'turn them all in', causing them to not be worth squat.
 
Evil doers learn from past deeds. Just because the last AWB had a grandfather clause doesn't mean any future planned one will. Say the dems decide that any grandfathered firearm requires a $500 fee towards a fund to pay off victims of firearms crime? Or an anual fee per rifle to inspect your required secure storage arraingements? Doesn't have to be reasonable,just whaterver they can justify in their minds. Remember that many dems feel very bitter that they couldn't get their way for the past 6+ years and don't think they aren't makeing plans right now to get "even". And certainly don't ever expect to see anthing written with a sunset clause again.
I wish that it wasn't so but the future looks real grim
 
Depends on how it's worded. If they went CA-style, then I believe you wouldn't be able to sell those lowers. You keep 'em till you die, and on your death they'd disposed of by our caring Nannystate.

And yes, it WOULD be bad, for the same reason the closed NFA registry is bad. You basically cut all subsequent generations from being able to afford to get either the weapons themselves or sufficient experience with them. You breed a sense of "us versus them" versus "just us" .. and not least of all, by cutting off the civilian market you make it a lot more difficult and expensive to get good tested small arms improvements up for military use.


All that said.. it's not looking imminent right now. Even if they brought it to the floor, they dont have the votes they did even the first time they brought it up. And a lot more folks are security-conscious post-9/11 post-Katrina and are more amenable to having a scary rifle. Or a neighbor they know and trust with a scary rifle, at any rate. Let's not get all doom-and-gloom yet, please?

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and all that eh?



-K
 
Chances are they'll start whining that the last AWB was inneffective not because it's a moronic idea but because it didn't go far enought and allowed guns and mags to be grandfathered in. You'd either have to keep the lowers and never transfer them, or they'd want them turned in. At that point, well, it's time to think about the purpose of the constitution.
 
If they make us turn them in then it will be the end of the true Constitution and United States... and the start of the last 200 pages of Unintended Consequences...
Click to expand...

No, not really. If they told us to turn them all in, we would. The last 200 pages of Unintended Consequences is just what the book catagory states, it's fiction, it will never happen.

The dream and actions of our forefathers are just that, forethoughts that happened but will never be repeated. It's a pipe dream to think that another revolution will ever happen again in these United States. We know it, they know it, it's just a matter of time.

As for price gouging, the next AWB will not be grandfathered. They learned that lesson the first time around. Best case will be that they go with a CA type clause, which allows those that have them, to keep them. But, along with what happened in CA they will then start to make more and more demands until the firearm is either useless or has to be turned in.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not a doom and gloom person, I am a realist. We all know deep down that if (when) it happens then we will do as we are told. We have families to look after, a job that we have to attend so that we have money, and no one lives in a fort that can take any attack and they will come out victorious.

But, all in all it's just my own humble opinion. Just my .02, just my thoughts on the subject.

Oh, and some gun shops are already on top of that idea, I have seen prices go up already around here.
 
"...If we have another AWB..." You're assuming there will be a 'grandfathering' clause. Up here, our stupid laws say that 'grandfathered' FA/evil firearms owners can only sell to others with the same permits. Modern battle rifles(Fals, converted to semi-auto M-14's) plus .25/.32 calibre handguns and less than 4" barreled handguns, et al, for example, are for the most part illegal. Legal owners can only sell to other legal owners. The value of said firearms dropped like a brick.
 
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not a doom and gloom person, I am a realist. We all know deep down that if (when) it happens then we will do as we are told. We have families to look after, a job that we have to attend so that we have money,
Click to expand...

So did the American revolutionaries. You think they didn't walk away from their stores and shops and farms when they HAD to?

And to be frank, seeing a sentiment like that, "Oh, we'll have to comply, we have to keep our SUVs and plasma TVs and McMansions paid off, blah blah..." makes me SICK.
 
Manedwolf: Sorry dude, that's todays America. Keep the masses pacified with cheap beer and inane television. Let them have their violent fantasies fulfilled in shoddy spectator sports like NASCAR or NFL. Keep them wanting that gilded ring, be it a "future" with enough money to someday retire before they die, or short term goals like a bigger TV, a newer vehicle with more useless features, or some other consumer disposable merchandise. Happy serfs work harder. And forget that ridiculous set of papers that were written hundreds of years ago. Bill of rights? Constitution? That was used to start this country, it's not needed in "modern times". Don't like how the system works? That's fine. We have lots of medications that will help you fit into society. Not going to take them? We'll make sure your family eventually shuns you as we confiscate everything you have and shut you away somewhere for your own safety.


As far as the original post goes, sure, speculate about buying those AR lowers. You have three possible outcomes:
1. The new AWB is a real bummer and everything is banned and called for disposal. You lose.
2. The new AWB allows grandfathering. Maybe you'll make a few bucks.
3. Nothing happens. You may break even.

Good luck.
 
evan price, your description would be valid if the government was the entity providing all those things. However, they are not. It is Toshiba and Sony giving us bigger TVs with more features. It's Budweiser and Heineken giving us cheaper beer. It's a corporation providing NASCAR and the NFL. A capitalist society means a free society. I agree that we are getting less free, and we are getting too comfortable for our own good, but it is WE who have done it to ourselves, and not some evil, nefarious plan to introduce consumer goods and basketball so we can be ruled from on high. They had entertainment and cheaper prices for goods back in 1776 too.
 
one caveat on the lowers

I read here that ATF didn't consider a stripped lower to be grandfather-able unless it met the two-evil-features test.

That would mean that every stripped lower would need an installed carbine stock and installed pistol grip to meet the two-feature hurdle.
 
Ah, but those companies are not "giving" you anything. They are simply offering products for sale.

On the other hand, the .gov has taken an active role in fostering the attitude of "do not think, do not prepare for emergencies, just buy your bread and circuses and leave the thinking to us...We're Here To Help You. Go Buy More Crap!
 
Headed for the big flush

What if you are forced to turn in all of the 'bad' rifles, as someone has already suggested. Wouldn't it be smarter to buy lever and bolt action rifles? Or, even semi-auto shotguns?
 
What if you are forced to turn in all of the 'bad' rifles, as someone has already suggested. Wouldn't it be smarter to buy lever and bolt action rifles? Or, even semi-auto shotguns?
Click to expand...

Would anyone actually comply?
 
I doubt that the Anti's would try and carbon copy of the '94 ban. Even if that was what they wanted, the fact that it was tried and fail will make it harder to pass. An all out ban with no GF clause would be very hard (not impossible) to pass and would likely end up with lots of guns being "lost". Most likely is a GF clause that prohibits the sale of pre ban weapons, that way the number of owners never increases and they slowly die off.

The other thing to consider is the gun owner's response to a ban. Most gun owners rolled over for the '94 because it didn't really do much and there was still the hope to over turn it in 2004. But if the new ban is more strict, has no sunset, a "No Sale" clause, and a confiscation clause I would expect the reaction of gun owners to be different.

Many Americans live comfy, insulated lives, and would hardly bat an eye at the errosion of their rights, fortunately there is still healthy number of those who wouldn't. To tip things even further, I now lots of people at all levels of the military who would refuse to fight against Americans and would probably desert, bringing with them rifles, grenades, rockets, and tanks. Keep in mind that ALL military officers took and oath to defend the Constitution, not the government, and many of them believe that.
 
half of THR's

There is no hope.
Turn them in.
We'll have to.
Do as you're told.
It's only a matter of time.
Die now, you're better off.
The good days are over.
No one will care.
You are too outnumbered.
My supercomputer computes the probability of success at retaining arms for posterity at .002433 in 1,994,274,000.
Give up.
 
Even though the antis learn slowly because their intellect is dulled by overwhelming emotion, they will realize that if they dry up the ammo supply eventually (even reloaders) will have expensive metal lumps hanging about. Joe
 
As to reloading, not unless they take out primers and powder as well. As long as people can buy brass tubing and lead ingots, they can make rounds.
 
seems to me that, If you had the banned guns/parts, an AWB would make them worth more if they were grandfathered in, and EVEN MORE if they were completely outlawed. Remember Thoreau's essay "civil disobedience"? You were supposed to read it in high school, junior year? He said that if you didn't feel a law was just, it was your civic duty to break it-- preferably openly and notoriously.

It seems like on this forum, people talk about a possible gun confiscation with a view to two possibilities-- 1. Go down blazing.; 2. Give it up.
I think there's a viable third possibility in this scenario (which I do not believe to be immenant). That possibility is to disobey the law while doing what you can to stay alive and free. It seems to me that such a course of events, taken by as many people as possible, would be the most likely way to "overturn" the bad scenarios that have been dreamed up.

Right now, I have guns that nobody knows I have. Things I have traded for, been given, bought face to face, or been asked to fix up by someone who never came back for it. On the other hand, I also have one or more guns that were purchased with an instant background check. I might have to come up with some reson why I don't have the gun(s) purchased on the primary market. People talk about saying "it fell in the lake", or some other likely story. The upshot is, they can't confiscate what they can't find.

So, it's the day after the last legal gun has been confiscated. MY hope is that there are a lot of people out there resisting by keeping, trading, fixing, and reloading guns. This has certainly been the case in other countries I have been in that had no legal ownership of guns by private individuals. In one such country, I even saw some collections that would be the envy of many gun enthusiasts here. Hopefully Americans are not too much more flabby-spined on this than citizens of other nations, if such a time ever comes.
 
i don't think there will be another AWB.The one in '94 barely passed and melted down the Democratic Party.They don't want to repeat THAT mistake.
 
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