Make no mistake, there will be no grandfathering clause in the next AWB, or they will for registration for each legal "assault weapon", which you will never be able to transfer, pay a high registration tax, and will be confiscated and destroyed when you die.
If we have another AWB...
- Thread starter LkWinnipesaukee
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DoubleTapDrew
Member
They'd probably like to model our gun laws after those of England...you know...that country we fought to gain independance from. Against their military. I guess it wasn't all in vain if the government lets us keep SOME of our inalienable rights. 
I hope there are enough freedom loving Americans left that if another AWB is passed there is mass civil disobediance on a scale large enough to make them repeal it quickly (something like with prohibition). Maybe if 80 million American's just screamed "NO."
I hope there are enough freedom loving Americans left that if another AWB is passed there is mass civil disobediance on a scale large enough to make them repeal it quickly (something like with prohibition). Maybe if 80 million American's just screamed "NO."
SoCalShooter
Member
Well you know its not nice to suggest or even hope for civil unrest but if such a ban were to occur or things degrade to that point you wont be alone. But honestly its not going to happen anytime soon. They are working slowly, starting with kids in schools and organizations that claim to be for freedom and rights.
As I mentioned on another list - DOJ sponsored researchers have concluded that the AWB was a flop and had no effect on known crime indicators.
It was in response to a proposed WA ban. I said
"Some comments:
1. The definition of assault weapon is interesting. On gun lists, when someone mentions assault weapons – they are sometimes chastised for classification things like semi auto ARs as assault weapons as assault weapons are definitional fully auto. Kind of like the clip vs. mag scoldings. It is argued that one should inform the legislator that blah, blah. However, that horse has left the barn. Seems to me that guns that look like military models are now assault weapons in common parlance. In both the common gun press and in studies of weapons priming effects in the psych/legal literature – the military style guns are 'assault weapons'. You read of departments being attracted to the new Remington pump 223 as it doesn’t look like a military gun. The appearance is the deciding characteristic.
2. The ban on all such guns and the implied logic. It could be reflexive hatred of such guns but here I see the double edged sword of the studies that found that the AWB had no effect on crime rates. I attend a panel where DOJ sponsored researchers clearly found no effect of the AWB on any crime indicator. It's since been published and well known.
There are two take away points:
a. Gun folk - no gun law works. Banning such guns is thus silly. Even new laws won't work. Criminals will still get guns. Only legal folks (like me) will be affected. Note, I'm not talking about the RKBA implications only efficacy of bans.
b. The researchers - the AWB was flawed. It was only based on cosmetics and had no teeth. The existing stocks of AWB classified guns was high enough to supply criminal demand and there was complete substitution of equally efficacious guns with minor changes in most locales.
Thus, stricter laws with banning the conceptual type of detachable mags, semis, etc. might have an effect, esp. if you add confiscation.
You may get resistance has you found in Australia where 100ks of SKSs have submerged or in California with a very low impact rate. However, even a small effect size has some positive absolute consequences. So even if only legal gun owners respond - it is worth doing.
Note - this is just an analysis of what I have gleaned from the criminological and psychological literature and presentations on this issues. I provide the summary for your knowledge. If you don't like what I summarize, spew your venom - not at me!! "
Thus, I think any new ban will try to take out everything and your investment will be worth squat in a PVC tube under your outhouse and there isn't going to be a revolution if a new bill is passed.
It was in response to a proposed WA ban. I said
"Some comments:
1. The definition of assault weapon is interesting. On gun lists, when someone mentions assault weapons – they are sometimes chastised for classification things like semi auto ARs as assault weapons as assault weapons are definitional fully auto. Kind of like the clip vs. mag scoldings. It is argued that one should inform the legislator that blah, blah. However, that horse has left the barn. Seems to me that guns that look like military models are now assault weapons in common parlance. In both the common gun press and in studies of weapons priming effects in the psych/legal literature – the military style guns are 'assault weapons'. You read of departments being attracted to the new Remington pump 223 as it doesn’t look like a military gun. The appearance is the deciding characteristic.
2. The ban on all such guns and the implied logic. It could be reflexive hatred of such guns but here I see the double edged sword of the studies that found that the AWB had no effect on crime rates. I attend a panel where DOJ sponsored researchers clearly found no effect of the AWB on any crime indicator. It's since been published and well known.
There are two take away points:
a. Gun folk - no gun law works. Banning such guns is thus silly. Even new laws won't work. Criminals will still get guns. Only legal folks (like me) will be affected. Note, I'm not talking about the RKBA implications only efficacy of bans.
b. The researchers - the AWB was flawed. It was only based on cosmetics and had no teeth. The existing stocks of AWB classified guns was high enough to supply criminal demand and there was complete substitution of equally efficacious guns with minor changes in most locales.
Thus, stricter laws with banning the conceptual type of detachable mags, semis, etc. might have an effect, esp. if you add confiscation.
You may get resistance has you found in Australia where 100ks of SKSs have submerged or in California with a very low impact rate. However, even a small effect size has some positive absolute consequences. So even if only legal gun owners respond - it is worth doing.
Note - this is just an analysis of what I have gleaned from the criminological and psychological literature and presentations on this issues. I provide the summary for your knowledge. If you don't like what I summarize, spew your venom - not at me!! "
Thus, I think any new ban will try to take out everything and your investment will be worth squat in a PVC tube under your outhouse and there isn't going to be a revolution if a new bill is passed.
Banning guns never works, but you can be sure it will work even less in a nation that has outlawed certain drugs long ago yet there is a never ending 'war on drugs' and many areas are still saturated with them.
The only thing that gives the government oversight on rules pertaining to guns is that they are legal. If they were illegal, then their oversight and control of them diminishes significantly. It does not even work on a tiny island filled with cameras and microphones in all public places like the UK.
To think it would not be a much larger failure in a country with millions of daily imports and borders that are so porous you cant even stop full grown people from coming and going, nevermind inanimate objects that can be broken down into small parts is ludicrous.
A realistic outcome of banning guns would be that those with them would have smuggled full autos instead of semi auto 'assault weapons' that look like them. The United States would no longer have a legal large civilian ammunition and firearm market that would be capable of supplying its armed forces and creating new technology through R&D funded by civilian sales, and those that still managed a meager existence selling to government would be less competative for contracts as those without immedediate ones would go bankrupt leaving only a monopolized market that would charge whatever it wanted. So the current system where the major manufacters compete to be the lowest bidder saving our country money would vanish.
Police would be worse off, military would fall behind in research and development, and yet Americans would have more powerful smuggled full auto small arms than they do now floating around on the black market.
The only thing that gives the government oversight on rules pertaining to guns is that they are legal. If they were illegal, then their oversight and control of them diminishes significantly. It does not even work on a tiny island filled with cameras and microphones in all public places like the UK.
To think it would not be a much larger failure in a country with millions of daily imports and borders that are so porous you cant even stop full grown people from coming and going, nevermind inanimate objects that can be broken down into small parts is ludicrous.
A realistic outcome of banning guns would be that those with them would have smuggled full autos instead of semi auto 'assault weapons' that look like them. The United States would no longer have a legal large civilian ammunition and firearm market that would be capable of supplying its armed forces and creating new technology through R&D funded by civilian sales, and those that still managed a meager existence selling to government would be less competative for contracts as those without immedediate ones would go bankrupt leaving only a monopolized market that would charge whatever it wanted. So the current system where the major manufacters compete to be the lowest bidder saving our country money would vanish.
Police would be worse off, military would fall behind in research and development, and yet Americans would have more powerful smuggled full auto small arms than they do now floating around on the black market.
CrazyIrishman
Member
Even if there isn't a federal AWB, different states have their own restrictions and laws as we are already well aware of.
Since this past election I believe that those states whose leadership is predominantly anti-2A will try to enact their own version of an AWB which will make the 1994 AWB look appealing! I for one am concerned about the new Governor in Maryland and what he and his lackeys will try to impose on us!
I know this has been said a million times already but I'll say it again. What needs to be done NOW, is for those that haven't done a damn thing for YOUR Second Amendment RIGHTS to get off their derriere's or fences and DO SOMETHING!
If you have time to call in a pizza order then why not spend a few minutes calling or writing your senator,delegate, assemblyman, whatever you want to call them, JUST CALL! If your thing is writing, then write a letter to them! You might think that only ONE call or letter won't matter! It does matter, believe me! Even if you only spoke to your senator,delegate, etc for five minutes it will make a difference on issues, especially important ones! Politicians usually tallly how many are for or against a certain issue! I call and write whenever something important comes up regardless if the person is for or against what I believe in.
I appreciate everyone that has worked his or her tail off in respect to protecting OUR 2A rights! Now its time for reinforcements!
Even if we don't admit it out loud, I know many of us are worried about the future of our RIGHTS, our HERITAGE, our hobby or livlihood and for good reason! We would be foolish NOT to be concerned when one considers what hangs in the balance! If we can just pull together and get this done we won't have to worry about AWB's or grandfather clauses! If the Brady Bunch and the like see we won't curl up and die and are willing to do whats necessary in the political arena, we WILL PREVAIL!
I have a question for anyone who has yet to get involved in protecting OUR RIGHTS, in particular the Second Amendment! Whether or not you CHOOSE to exercise this RIGHT, it is still YOURS! Its not just about hunting, target, skeet,or collecting, etc.....
Its all tied to FREEDOM! With that being said, here's the question in two parts.
Do you want to live life on your feet and FREE or in servitude on YOUR KNEES; How much is FREEDOM worth to YOU?
CrazyIrishman
(Mods, feel free to move if necessary)
Since this past election I believe that those states whose leadership is predominantly anti-2A will try to enact their own version of an AWB which will make the 1994 AWB look appealing! I for one am concerned about the new Governor in Maryland and what he and his lackeys will try to impose on us!
I know this has been said a million times already but I'll say it again. What needs to be done NOW, is for those that haven't done a damn thing for YOUR Second Amendment RIGHTS to get off their derriere's or fences and DO SOMETHING!
If you have time to call in a pizza order then why not spend a few minutes calling or writing your senator,delegate, assemblyman, whatever you want to call them, JUST CALL! If your thing is writing, then write a letter to them! You might think that only ONE call or letter won't matter! It does matter, believe me! Even if you only spoke to your senator,delegate, etc for five minutes it will make a difference on issues, especially important ones! Politicians usually tallly how many are for or against a certain issue! I call and write whenever something important comes up regardless if the person is for or against what I believe in.
I appreciate everyone that has worked his or her tail off in respect to protecting OUR 2A rights! Now its time for reinforcements!
Even if we don't admit it out loud, I know many of us are worried about the future of our RIGHTS, our HERITAGE, our hobby or livlihood and for good reason! We would be foolish NOT to be concerned when one considers what hangs in the balance! If we can just pull together and get this done we won't have to worry about AWB's or grandfather clauses! If the Brady Bunch and the like see we won't curl up and die and are willing to do whats necessary in the political arena, we WILL PREVAIL!
I have a question for anyone who has yet to get involved in protecting OUR RIGHTS, in particular the Second Amendment! Whether or not you CHOOSE to exercise this RIGHT, it is still YOURS! Its not just about hunting, target, skeet,or collecting, etc.....
Its all tied to FREEDOM! With that being said, here's the question in two parts.
Do you want to live life on your feet and FREE or in servitude on YOUR KNEES; How much is FREEDOM worth to YOU?
CrazyIrishman
(Mods, feel free to move if necessary)
mljdeckard
Member
I'm with Steelcore.
Clinton himself even admitted, the singlemost damaging issue that caused the most significant change in our government's history was the '94 assualt weapons ban.
Now that the dems have both houses, the last thing they want people thinking is that it's summer 1994 again. Right now, the momentum is ovewhelmingly in favor of gun ownership. The dems don't want to slap people into waking up by yanking the gun rug out from under them. To keep the illusion running in '08 and again in '12, they have to keep Hannity and Limbaugh from saying "I told you so". They have to show effectiveness, not petty revenge.
And just because they have control of both houses, that doesn't mean that ALL dems favor gun control. I was banging my head against the wall when Utah sent Matheson back to office out of pure complacency, absolutely refusing to realize that every seat counted in this election, and that they were voting for Pelosi. But he still has an A from the NRA.
Clinton himself even admitted, the singlemost damaging issue that caused the most significant change in our government's history was the '94 assualt weapons ban.
Now that the dems have both houses, the last thing they want people thinking is that it's summer 1994 again. Right now, the momentum is ovewhelmingly in favor of gun ownership. The dems don't want to slap people into waking up by yanking the gun rug out from under them. To keep the illusion running in '08 and again in '12, they have to keep Hannity and Limbaugh from saying "I told you so". They have to show effectiveness, not petty revenge.
And just because they have control of both houses, that doesn't mean that ALL dems favor gun control. I was banging my head against the wall when Utah sent Matheson back to office out of pure complacency, absolutely refusing to realize that every seat counted in this election, and that they were voting for Pelosi. But he still has an A from the NRA.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
One other thing that the .gov doesn't realize is that the weapons the military uses are produced by privately owned companies. Ronnie Barrett wrote an article about biting the hand that feeds you. Kill civilian assault weapons, the companies die (since they cannot usually survive on military orders alone), no more guns for the military. Here's a link to the article from Barrett Rifles' website, it's a quick read: http://www.barrettrifles.com/news/AmericanRiflemanJan-2005BrattonLetter.pdf
I guess the question is where is that proverbial line in the sand where enough is enough, or do they hope to cross it unbenownst to the general population by the little incremental state by state restrictions.
I guess the question is where is that proverbial line in the sand where enough is enough, or do they hope to cross it unbenownst to the general population by the little incremental state by state restrictions.
CrazyIrishman
Member
Crunker,
I gather by your post that you're probably under 18 and still living at home and in school. Thats good! Stay in school and learn all that you can including how to think for yourself and form your own opinions! Don't be afraid to ask questions!
You might think that it would cause problems at home being politically active but in order to help its not always necessary to involve politics.
Have you ever been to a rifle range,hunting, or learning how to shoot clays? If the answer is yes, then maybe next time you can take a friend and show them what its really all about! If you haven't been you should try it!
In this manner you're actually helping the cause of the 2nd Amendment and you're not politically involved. Maybe technically,but it would be a stretch. If you are wondering how you could be helping you have to remember that we not only have to educate adults but the younger generation too!
When you take a friend to the range who has never been, AND they have a SAFE and enjoyable time, you have a CHANCE to plant a seed if you want to call it that. The more they go and have a good time, the more likely it is they'll see that guns aren't evil. The net result is someone who'll probably be into firearms the rest of their life!
Many young people today could care less about the country or of the history surrounding It. Later on this young'un turns into an adult with the same views!
Try not to worry about it too much. While you're in school learn about American History. If something doesn't sound right, QUESTION IT! Don't take it for granted!
Its up to your generation (and mine)to help insure we don't let politicians walk over us again, and pass laws to protect us from ourselves like AWB's and other restrictive "feel good" but do nothing laws!
HTH
CI
I gather by your post that you're probably under 18 and still living at home and in school. Thats good! Stay in school and learn all that you can including how to think for yourself and form your own opinions! Don't be afraid to ask questions!
You might think that it would cause problems at home being politically active but in order to help its not always necessary to involve politics.
Have you ever been to a rifle range,hunting, or learning how to shoot clays? If the answer is yes, then maybe next time you can take a friend and show them what its really all about! If you haven't been you should try it!
In this manner you're actually helping the cause of the 2nd Amendment and you're not politically involved. Maybe technically,but it would be a stretch. If you are wondering how you could be helping you have to remember that we not only have to educate adults but the younger generation too!
When you take a friend to the range who has never been, AND they have a SAFE and enjoyable time, you have a CHANCE to plant a seed if you want to call it that. The more they go and have a good time, the more likely it is they'll see that guns aren't evil. The net result is someone who'll probably be into firearms the rest of their life!
Many young people today could care less about the country or of the history surrounding It. Later on this young'un turns into an adult with the same views!
Try not to worry about it too much. While you're in school learn about American History. If something doesn't sound right, QUESTION IT! Don't take it for granted!
Its up to your generation (and mine)to help insure we don't let politicians walk over us again, and pass laws to protect us from ourselves like AWB's and other restrictive "feel good" but do nothing laws!
HTH
CI
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