Illinois Oppression
- Thread starter 1911inAK
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Food isn't bad, but the scenery?!
Dude all I ever see is cornfields. Endless, flat cornfields from one horizon to the other.
You dudes just need to meet the right people and go to the right ranges. You'd see there's a whole lot of fun to be had in Illinois.
Your sarcasm gives a glimpse of your ignorance.
Crowcifier666
Member
Sorry, What's wrong with Rhode Island? I think we're trying hard to hold our own in enemy territory, but it's an uphill battle.
yep, ONLY FORTY THREE of our FIFTY states are more welcoming to gun owners. That's like saying if you were required to amputate a finger, you wouldn't miss your pinky too badly....rather than movng somewhere that doesn't mandate such amputations
Blue cards & safety classes to buy handguns.. may issue... potential travel problems for out of stater's, no NFA whatsoever...
By comparison IL is pretty friendly.
We allow out of staters to at least pass through with a loaded gun in their car.
No safety classes or any restrictions on buying handguns other than 18 yo for private party, 21 yo from an FFL.
Shall issue.
SBR's.
Wasn't trying to start a peeing match - was just saying "it's not all that bad here in IL", contrary to the OP. There's at least 10 other states that are worse off than IL, overall. And some that are very, very similar which you never hear people complain about (Iowa, Wisconsin..)
The 7 day waiting period.
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Zaydok Allen
Member
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- Feb 12, 2011
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- 13,274
I avoid IL for more reasons than should be discussed on THR, ridiculous carry and firearms laws at the top of the list.
And yes the endless cornfields are enough to drive a person mad. I left the Midwest a decade ago, and I'll never go back, except to maybe he fringes.
I guess I'll never understand how or why a state that hosts Chicago, a place with a lot of violent crime, would make legal ownership for it's law abiding citizens so difficult. Everyone has the right to protect themselves in this country.
Honestly, I think it's just a way to fleece people.
And yes the endless cornfields are enough to drive a person mad. I left the Midwest a decade ago, and I'll never go back, except to maybe he fringes.
I guess I'll never understand how or why a state that hosts Chicago, a place with a lot of violent crime, would make legal ownership for it's law abiding citizens so difficult. Everyone has the right to protect themselves in this country.
Honestly, I think it's just a way to fleece people.
NapalmMan67
Member
Well that's good to know about the mag restrictions. Now if we can only convince some dealers that they can sell/ship those and other items to us in IL...
Yes, I am technoligically challenged- otherwise I would quote the posts I am responding too.
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Yes, I am technoligically challenged- otherwise I would quote the posts I am responding too.
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Neo-Luddite
Member
Things in IL have been getting better for gun rights over the last decade--really by leaps and bounds!!! Many thanks are owed to the NRA, ISRA and the many individuals and like-minded groups that have dug in their heals.
The FOID is an anachronism that (THANK G-D!) was put in place decades back. If they had created it in say, the 80's/90's, it might be far worse. All it costs is 10 bucks and a form and photo sent in for 10 years. With a parent sign off a child can get one, too--my 10 and 12 year old have had theirs for several years already.
So while I don't care for the few IL restrictions no AP (m2 .30/06 & 5.56 ss109 exempt), no MG, no silencers, no dragon's breath shotshell/bolo shell) there is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON between the gun rights as they stand here in Illinois and those in places like Cali, Mass, NJ, NY, DC, ect.
Now that we are a shall issue state and Chi has many gun rights restored, it's looking pretty good.
But in all fairness, we're not Montana.
The FOID is an anachronism that (THANK G-D!) was put in place decades back. If they had created it in say, the 80's/90's, it might be far worse. All it costs is 10 bucks and a form and photo sent in for 10 years. With a parent sign off a child can get one, too--my 10 and 12 year old have had theirs for several years already.
So while I don't care for the few IL restrictions no AP (m2 .30/06 & 5.56 ss109 exempt), no MG, no silencers, no dragon's breath shotshell/bolo shell) there is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON between the gun rights as they stand here in Illinois and those in places like Cali, Mass, NJ, NY, DC, ect.
Now that we are a shall issue state and Chi has many gun rights restored, it's looking pretty good.
But in all fairness, we're not Montana.
It's about control, Kodiak.
As with anywhere else, knowing the lay of the land is important.
Chicago transitioned from a city rife with organized crime to a city which is *controlled* by an (il)legitimate government composed of organized crime.
(Look no further than Federal Prison, to find our old Governors.. and the last to leave, Quinn, deserves to be there as well for stealing/misallocating millions in funds from the Urban Improvement Fund. The Federal Government kicked the state off that case and took over directly recently...)
Quinn was so dangerous for the state, that he was beat in every single county election in the last general election, including his home turf. Voter turnout in 2014 was at record levels, surpassing even presidential election years.
Anyway to the point, downstate, collectively "South of Interstate 80", is not all that different in mindset from most conservative states.
My county sheriff, for example, sent out orders last summer not to arrest anyone who was caught carrying a gun on them (BEFORE our concealed carry law passed), unless they were being a 'nuisance', committing crimes...
Our county State's Attorney went on the record publicly when the 7th circuit decision was handed down and said there would be no prosecutions on Unlawful Use of Weapons - which effectively legalized permitless carry here.
"Prohibited Places" here are different than other areas of the state. Parks and public transportation are off limits state wide; but here you won't get any hassle over it, if you take a sidearm when you go fishing, or hiking. (Probably not a good idea to take a gun in to a school though, that'd fall south of the ambiguous 'nuisance' line)
The further south you go, the easier it gets, until you get closer to St. Louis / carbondale area. (Carbondale's mayor is staunchly anti-gun - I've gone round and round with him about his support of an assault weapons ban back during the huge push by Mayors Against All Things Fun...)
We've made some huge strides recently, not just with concealed carry (which the goal is now to chip away at some of the BS baggage), but with NFA (we have SBR's now, and very likely will have suppressors soon). I do doubt that we'll ever get full auto. Chicago is where that whole movement to ban them started, and it's unlikely that in my lifetime that'll ever get reversed.
The other side of the coin is our self defense laws. We have some of the strongest self-defense laws in the country, with complete civil immunity on justified use of force. Our "in the dwelling" statutes create justification for lethal force on a violent or tumultuous entry (broken window, kicked in door), or if you have reason to believe someone is in the dwelling to commit a simple felony; we have no duty to retreat; we can intervene to stop a forcible felony anywhere, also with civil immunity; citizens have arrest powers (but caution must be exercised as you don't have the same protection/indemnification as police do), etc.
We had those laws on the books before "Stand your ground" and "Castle Doctrine" even became a "thing".
And oddly enough... Obama was the senator that strengthened those laws by giving us civil immunity on justified use of force. He sponsored the bill that brought the justified use of force statutes full circle, and provides for full immunity from lawsuit for damages inflicted while exercising one's right to use force against force....
As with anywhere else, knowing the lay of the land is important.
Chicago transitioned from a city rife with organized crime to a city which is *controlled* by an (il)legitimate government composed of organized crime.
(Look no further than Federal Prison, to find our old Governors.. and the last to leave, Quinn, deserves to be there as well for stealing/misallocating millions in funds from the Urban Improvement Fund. The Federal Government kicked the state off that case and took over directly recently...)
Quinn was so dangerous for the state, that he was beat in every single county election in the last general election, including his home turf. Voter turnout in 2014 was at record levels, surpassing even presidential election years.
Anyway to the point, downstate, collectively "South of Interstate 80", is not all that different in mindset from most conservative states.
My county sheriff, for example, sent out orders last summer not to arrest anyone who was caught carrying a gun on them (BEFORE our concealed carry law passed), unless they were being a 'nuisance', committing crimes...
Our county State's Attorney went on the record publicly when the 7th circuit decision was handed down and said there would be no prosecutions on Unlawful Use of Weapons - which effectively legalized permitless carry here.
"Prohibited Places" here are different than other areas of the state. Parks and public transportation are off limits state wide; but here you won't get any hassle over it, if you take a sidearm when you go fishing, or hiking. (Probably not a good idea to take a gun in to a school though, that'd fall south of the ambiguous 'nuisance' line)
The further south you go, the easier it gets, until you get closer to St. Louis / carbondale area. (Carbondale's mayor is staunchly anti-gun - I've gone round and round with him about his support of an assault weapons ban back during the huge push by Mayors Against All Things Fun...)
We've made some huge strides recently, not just with concealed carry (which the goal is now to chip away at some of the BS baggage), but with NFA (we have SBR's now, and very likely will have suppressors soon). I do doubt that we'll ever get full auto. Chicago is where that whole movement to ban them started, and it's unlikely that in my lifetime that'll ever get reversed.
The other side of the coin is our self defense laws. We have some of the strongest self-defense laws in the country, with complete civil immunity on justified use of force. Our "in the dwelling" statutes create justification for lethal force on a violent or tumultuous entry (broken window, kicked in door), or if you have reason to believe someone is in the dwelling to commit a simple felony; we have no duty to retreat; we can intervene to stop a forcible felony anywhere, also with civil immunity; citizens have arrest powers (but caution must be exercised as you don't have the same protection/indemnification as police do), etc.
We had those laws on the books before "Stand your ground" and "Castle Doctrine" even became a "thing".
And oddly enough... Obama was the senator that strengthened those laws by giving us civil immunity on justified use of force. He sponsored the bill that brought the justified use of force statutes full circle, and provides for full immunity from lawsuit for damages inflicted while exercising one's right to use force against force....
Officers'Wife
Member
No offense Trent, but I'm sitting just across the state line from you with my .38 Super in my purse next to the CCW which the sheriff had to issue to me once I filled out the paperwork. Last night my hubby cleaned his Remington rifle that I bought and gave to him when he retired from the army. The transaction required no paperwork or updating of an FOID.
I've often said and will continue to that the main problem with Jasper County (Indiana) is that it is so very far from heaven and too bloody close to Chicago. If I had ppl from Iowa or Wisconsin moving in complaining about the culture here I would be equally vehement about those states as well. Since I'm not I have no reason to. If you feel your restrictions aren't too bad, more power to you. Just don't be disappointed if the neighbors don't leap to copy you.
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HoosierQ
Member
Over in Terre Haute, Indiana (which is about 3 miles from Illinois) the gun shops do the same thing. Indiana's gun laws are the total opposite of Illinois. But if you have an Illinois driver's license you have to have that FOID thing or they won't mess with you. If you have Indiana or presumably Montana or Kentucky or anywhere else, you are good to go.
... and I'm sitting here with a Glock 19 in my waistband that the state had to issue me a permit on... and have a whole big rack of rifles (and quite a few belt feds).
Aside from *showing* your FOID card and filling out a 4473 you don't have to "update" anything with any transactions, or special paperwork.
The FOID card is more of an annoyance than anything, every 10 years you have to get a new piece of plastic and pay $10. Other than that $1 a year fee, and the inconvenience of keeping an extra card in your wallet, it's not a huge deal. The state doesn't get to collect any information about what you own, how much ammo you buy, or anything like that.
I think people get out of joint about the FOID card; from one perspective, it's nice - when you sell a gun private party you don't have to wonder or worry if they are a prohibited person (convicted felon, etc), and if you record their FOID number for the sale, you gain full indemnification from civil and criminal suits if they turn around later that day, and shoot up a {insert venue here}, with the gun you just sold them. No one can touch you for selling them the gun.
A man I sold a 45 handgun to later turned around and killed himself with it - that indemnification turned out to be a good thing. Another friend of mine sold a gun to a man who later shot someone else with it - he was fully protected from a really nasty civil suit that persons' family filed against HIM, for selling the gun. That little nasty FOID card saved his ass. Literally.
I don't look at the FOID as anything more than a minor convenience.
And for $1 a year I get full civil immunity from lawsuits brought against me over any guns I sell to other people. That's damn cheap insurance.
To be fair I'd rather have lifetime low cost CCW permits like you have, but what we have... at least it's a start of something better.
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It's also important that people don't overlook the most important part of Illinois.
That point is we are a crucial, key battleground state.
Unlike Connecticut and New York, which went truly and fully nuts after SH, when the Chicago liberals paid to fly the Sandy Hook parents to Springfield to testify and lobby before our representatives and senators, it didn't remotely help them get an assault weapons ban passed. Not even close.
Even when our anti-gun governor did an amendatory veto (look that power up, it's nasty), cancelled out pro-gun legislation that hit his desk, and shoved an assault weapons ban back down the legislators throats, our legislators said "screw you" and overrode him.
When the Speaker of the House played his games with trying to get a may issue concealed carry bill passed after the 7th circuit decision, our representatives shut him down.
Could they have done a better job and got a better bill through? I honestly don't know. Their plan (which is now unfolding) was to get a Shall Issue bill through even if it had flaws (they did, and it does). But now? there's 36 bills already submitted this year in the house alone proposing to modify the FCCL act, to remove prohibited places, allow us to carry sidearms while hunting, etc.
So the second phase of the plan is now in the works. Including allowing suppressors to be legally bought and owned. (They won us short barreled rifles just a few years ago, so it's very possible for the suppressor bill to gain traction as a public safety issue; the argument is 2 million gun owners will eventually draw state medical aid late in life from hearing loss... )
Think about that.
We're RAPIDLY turning around from a vehemently anti-gun state, to a VERY pro-gun state, in just a matter of a couple years.
And thanks to Illinois being so ridiculously Anti-Gun, that 7th circuit decision was used as a citation when California recently got their anti-concealed-carry "reasonable cause" stuff ripped apart by the 9th circuit.
And Indiana? Your home?
You are also bound by the 7th circuit decision.
Short of a Supreme Court ruling vacating the 7th's decision (which is impossible to appeal now, the state didn't file one in time), at no time in the future, can Indiana *ever* become a may issue state.
Period. Even if what happens in Colorado happens and you guys "drift blue" due to Chicago emmigration to Indiana; you can never lose shall issue. Ever.
(Same goes for Wisconsin, that 7th circuit decision is binding there, too)
So.. don't hate on Illinois.
Thank us for being at the forefront of the fight, holding the line, winning victory after victory, and support us.
We fight harder than any other state.
Connecticut, people lined up to register guns.
Illinois, we had 9,000+ gun owners all hit the capitol building in the middle of frigging winter to lobby for Concealed Carry.
That point is we are a crucial, key battleground state.
Unlike Connecticut and New York, which went truly and fully nuts after SH, when the Chicago liberals paid to fly the Sandy Hook parents to Springfield to testify and lobby before our representatives and senators, it didn't remotely help them get an assault weapons ban passed. Not even close.
Even when our anti-gun governor did an amendatory veto (look that power up, it's nasty), cancelled out pro-gun legislation that hit his desk, and shoved an assault weapons ban back down the legislators throats, our legislators said "screw you" and overrode him.
When the Speaker of the House played his games with trying to get a may issue concealed carry bill passed after the 7th circuit decision, our representatives shut him down.
Could they have done a better job and got a better bill through? I honestly don't know. Their plan (which is now unfolding) was to get a Shall Issue bill through even if it had flaws (they did, and it does). But now? there's 36 bills already submitted this year in the house alone proposing to modify the FCCL act, to remove prohibited places, allow us to carry sidearms while hunting, etc.
So the second phase of the plan is now in the works. Including allowing suppressors to be legally bought and owned. (They won us short barreled rifles just a few years ago, so it's very possible for the suppressor bill to gain traction as a public safety issue; the argument is 2 million gun owners will eventually draw state medical aid late in life from hearing loss...
)Think about that.
We're RAPIDLY turning around from a vehemently anti-gun state, to a VERY pro-gun state, in just a matter of a couple years.
And thanks to Illinois being so ridiculously Anti-Gun, that 7th circuit decision was used as a citation when California recently got their anti-concealed-carry "reasonable cause" stuff ripped apart by the 9th circuit.
And Indiana? Your home?
You are also bound by the 7th circuit decision.
Short of a Supreme Court ruling vacating the 7th's decision (which is impossible to appeal now, the state didn't file one in time), at no time in the future, can Indiana *ever* become a may issue state.
Period. Even if what happens in Colorado happens and you guys "drift blue" due to Chicago emmigration to Indiana; you can never lose shall issue. Ever.
(Same goes for Wisconsin, that 7th circuit decision is binding there, too)
So.. don't hate on Illinois.
Thank us for being at the forefront of the fight, holding the line, winning victory after victory, and support us.
We fight harder than any other state.
Connecticut, people lined up to register guns.
Illinois, we had 9,000+ gun owners all hit the capitol building in the middle of frigging winter to lobby for Concealed Carry.
vito
Member
Some of us in IL might be saying that's it not too bad because just a short time ago (a bit over a year) it was so much worse. IL was the only state a year ago that did not allow for any type of legal concealed carry, and now we have almost 100,000 licensed carriers in just the first year of the new law. Despite what seems like a huge list of places where you cannot legally carry a concealed firearm, in practice, outside of Cook County and the city of Chicago, it really is not much of an impediment. I carry virtually every day, only not carrying when I know I am going somewhere where it is unlawful by statute such as a school, a government building or a sporting event or similar gatherings where a metal detector might also be in use (makes the decision about whether to carry or not a lot easier if you know you will have to walk through a metal detector!). Our situation is probably better than many states in this country regarding gun laws.
I will add that Illinois is on the verge of insolvency, is corrupt beyond description, and has very little (in my opinion) going for it (other than a nice provision in state income tax law that leaves my military pension untaxed). I came here almost 20 years ago for work, and if not for the reality that selling my house right now would force me to accept a loss of over $100K I would be gone already.
I will add that Illinois is on the verge of insolvency, is corrupt beyond description, and has very little (in my opinion) going for it (other than a nice provision in state income tax law that leaves my military pension untaxed). I came here almost 20 years ago for work, and if not for the reality that selling my house right now would force me to accept a loss of over $100K I would be gone already.
That's very interesting, thanks for posting. I went and read the statutes (chapter 38, parts 7.1-7.3) and that's very reassuring. I had made the mistake of listening to people disparage the state constantly, and assumed our self defense laws would be lacking. Glad I was wrong!
ljnowell
Member
Oh goody another bash IL thread! We haven't had one in so long! I guess everyone is tired of bashing California.
While hating on IL remember that yes, while we have FOID cards we also have no AWB, no mag capacity restrictions, and shall issue concealed carry. SBRs were recently legalized and we have a push in the state legislature for suppressors currently going.
It's a whole lot worse in a lot of other places.
While hating on IL remember that yes, while we have FOID cards we also have no AWB, no mag capacity restrictions, and shall issue concealed carry. SBRs were recently legalized and we have a push in the state legislature for suppressors currently going.
It's a whole lot worse in a lot of other places.
ljnowell
Member
It's also important that people don't overlook the most important part of Illinois.
That point is we are a crucial, key battleground state.
Unlike Connecticut and New York, which went truly and fully nuts after SH, when the Chicago liberals paid to fly the Sandy Hook parents to Springfield to testify and lobby before our representatives and senators, it didn't remotely help them get an assault weapons ban passed. Not even close.
Even when our anti-gun governor did an amendatory veto (look that power up, it's nasty), cancelled out pro-gun legislation that hit his desk, and shoved an assault weapons ban back down the legislators throats, our legislators said "screw you" and overrode him.
When the Speaker of the House played his games with trying to get a may issue concealed carry bill passed after the 7th circuit decision, our representatives shut him down.
Could they have done a better job and got a better bill through? I honestly don't know. Their plan (which is now unfolding) was to get a Shall Issue bill through even if it had flaws (they did, and it does). But now? there's 36 bills already submitted this year in the house alone proposing to modify the FCCL act, to remove prohibited places, allow us to carry sidearms while hunting, etc.
So the second phase of the plan is now in the works. Including allowing suppressors to be legally bought and owned. (They won us short barreled rifles just a few years ago, so it's very possible for the suppressor bill to gain traction as a public safety issue; the argument is 2 million gun owners will eventually draw state medical aid late in life from hearing loss...
Think about that.
We're RAPIDLY turning around from a vehemently anti-gun state, to a VERY pro-gun state, in just a matter of a couple years.
And thanks to Illinois being so ridiculously Anti-Gun, that 7th circuit decision was used as a citation when California recently got their anti-concealed-carry "reasonable cause" stuff ripped apart by the 9th circuit.
And Indiana? Your home?
You are also bound by the 7th circuit decision.
Short of a Supreme Court ruling vacating the 7th's decision (which is impossible to appeal now, the state didn't file one in time), at no time in the future, can Indiana *ever* become a may issue state.
Period. Even if what happens in Colorado happens and you guys "drift blue" due to Chicago emmigration to Indiana; you can never lose shall issue. Ever.
(Same goes for Wisconsin, that 7th circuit decision is binding there, too)
So.. don't hate on Illinois.
Thank us for being at the forefront of the fight, holding the line, winning victory after victory, and support us.
We fight harder than any other state.
Connecticut, people lined up to register guns.
Illinois, we had 9,000+ gun owners all hit the capitol building in the middle of frigging winter to lobby for Concealed Carry.
Excellent post!
Blackbeard
Member
I don't know if we're anywhere near becoming a pro-gun state, but apart from the carry restrictions, Illinois is relatively free when it comes to guns. They haven't been able to pass an AWB or magazine restriction here despite trying many times. We still don't have registration. Get a FOID and you can own just about anything except NFA stuff.
Crawdad1
Member
Not to mention some of the biggest white tails in the country. I know I almost hit one of those bastards driving through on my way to South Dakota. At first I thought it was a frickin elk.
stonecutter2
Member
I like the FOID mainly because it lets me know the person I'm selling to passed some kind of check by the state police. Better than just a driver's license and a smile.
The FOID costs very little and is an easy (sometimes long wait) process. But it's hardly oppressive....unless you shouldn't be buying a gun.
The FOID costs very little and is an easy (sometimes long wait) process. But it's hardly oppressive....unless you shouldn't be buying a gun.
Onward Allusion
Member
Oh my! It may not be the absolute worst, but man - you have been brainwashed. For all intents and purpose, Illinois has gun registration for private transactions via their ISP FOID verification site. The FOID informs the State that you are a gun owner. Oh my!
ljnowell
Member
No, they don't. You are not required by law to use the website. You are required to keep a private record of the transaction, that's it.
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