In Light of the Recent Shootings....

[Jonesy814]

In the Vegas shooting the guy had multiple scopes rifles and was shooting from over 300 yards away. Any handgun would have been useless as far as returning fire. The guy in Texas had an AR but ranges were closer. Generally a hand gun vs AR is not favorable to the hand gun guy, especially like in this case where the bad guy had body armor. Whatever you shoot best would be the key since your best chance would be a head shot

 

[MedWheeler]

I have not changed anything, and can't much due to the hot climate here and the requirement (and my personal preference) to keeping carried firearms concealed.

But, I am compelled to explore options, such as carrying more ammunition and keeping a long gun in my vehicles. I do need to learn the AR and AK rifles; I own one of each, but they were purchased largely as "anti-political" investments and, though I fully intended to shoot them, I didn't place much priority on doing so. So, the first long gun to be so stowed will probably be a 12-gauge shotgun.

It also might not be a bad idea to "de-Cosmo" my Romanian TTC and shoot it some, too. With the 7.62x25mm round's penetrative capabilities, it may have some use to it as well, though not as a primary carry piece.

 

[bannockburn]

Armored farmer

An AR and a couple 30rdrs went under the back seat of my pickup tonight.
☆Truck gun upgraded☆

Good idea in light of current events. Sort of reminds me how I did something very similar to that when 9/11 happened. Not quite the same feeling as back then but some truly bad things are happening these days and one has to be alert and prepare for the worst.

Still going with same carry choices I made awhile back: Kahr CM9 (and two spare mags), or a S&W Model 638 (with two Bianchi Speed Strips).

 

[Nuclear]

I had been rethinking my carry gun for a while now, but because we moved to an open carry state where it socially acceptable, and I coincidentally found a higher capacity handgun I shoot better.

I still sit facing the doorway, and I'm the only one my son trusts to do that instead of him.

 

[GBExpat]

No change as far as carry, but I am seriously considering keeping one of my ARs or M1Carbines stashed in the cab of my truck.

 

[Varminterror]

Service is probably the last place you are thinking about prolonged mortality. You're there for fellowship, reflection, and getting closer to God. You generally aren't there with your head on a swivel looking for threats.

I can appreciate folks who would live under this paradigm, but I don't count myself as one of them.

Selfish as it might seem, when I reach into my safe with carry in mind, I also have in mind the threat profile for my day and the people at risk which I include into my circle of defense. Most often, that list is short - just myself. Frequently, it's myself, my wife, and my son. Less frequently, it's additional friends or family members. Maybe I'm a little more "Old Testament" than some others, but when I carry to Church, I draw a circle around my congregation. Our small rural church is made up of my family, neighbors, men I used to work (farming/ranching) for when I was a kid, girls I dated in high school and their husbands and kids, guys I played football with in school, elderly women who know they can call me to clear their driveway of snow any time, neighbors who would catch and pen my livestock if and when they get out, and I for them... I draw my circle around these people when we're together. Keeping my head on a swivel doesn't shut off - I've carried for enough years such I can't help but pick my seating with purpose, or take note any time a door opens... We're at church to share in our faith and enrich our souls, to hopefully be welcomed by St. Pete someday - and if I can possibly help make sure that day isn't today for any of my Fellows by carrying 30rnds under my sport jacket on Sundays, I'm happy to carry. If I'm in a shopping mall with my family, where a spree shooter might attack as a high volume target, I carry the same G19, but my Circle of Defense is small, my family and I, and my mindset is ensuring our escape to safety, not defending the crowd. But my Circle isn't ever really "off."

 

[Jim NE]

The church I used to attend in a very small Colorado village is a high risk target.

A murder recently occurred across the street during services. The circuit preacher was a retired LEO and rushed over during the service to apprehend the killer.

Residents are drug addled meth heads armed with AKs seen walking down the one street shooting and swearing aloud. They are not church goers.

Surrounding area has been settled by small pot farmers who steal from each other and brandish firearms during arguments. They are not church goers.

Church is over 100 years old and the secondary exit has been blocked off. No secondary exit.

Local Sheriff's office is 20 miles away. Department consists of six officers. One Deputy is on duty on Sunday mornings. County is vast area.

Sheesh, that's right out of a Clint Eastwood western. Seriously. My prayers are with you.

 

[FL-NC]

Not really. The only change that I've made is that my NC summer CCW piece (9 shield) is now my year round carry piece, now that I live in the gun shine state. But I still have a G23 in my jeep and a G19L in my truck, 3 mags each.

 

[1911 guy]

Varminterror expressed my sentiments exactly. The pistol I carry doesn't change. However, I am considering adding another magazine or two simply because I am the front line both for my own small family and for our small church. Any day can be our last day, but it shouldn't be because we didn't have our heads in the game.

 

[Gun Master]

In my state a carry permit allows you to carry a handgun ONLY !
No long guns in the car, etc.
Things could change though, but there has to be enough clout and people to push for it.

 

[Blacksmoke]

Sheesh, that's right out of a Clint Eastwood western. Seriously. My prayers are with you.

Thank you.

The village of Mesita CO is lost.

The old church building used to house Methodists then LDS and now an Independent Baptist Church. It is a great old building made of grouted basalt stones. But, a building does not make a church. The Pastor needs to relocate his congregation to another location.

 

[Rocketmedic]

I can carry the TCP wearing pretty much anything, along with a spare magazine. The same is not true of my 1911, and seven rounds of 380 beats a sharp stick. With that being said, I also reckon that maybe a 9x19mm somewhat higher-capacity piece might not be a bad plan. Any thoughts on the Taurus 709 and the SCCY?

 

[ms6852]

All of you that carry and are re-thinking your carry gun should instead re-think your shooting practice. I carry a 1911 95% of the time or a Kel-Tec PMR 30 . I consider myself very proficient at close or long ranges with either hand gun. I make it a point to shoot my hand guns at 25, 50, and 100 yards. My target for all ranges is a paper plate, I figure if I can hit the paper plate at any distance than I can also hit the threat at those distances.
I do not care that the bullet is lobbing or arching at those distances but I guarantee you that if I hit anyone in the gonads with a 45acp or a 22 magnum they will know they got hit. Nowadays this psycho killers have planned everything in advance, so much that they now wear armor vests, so for me headshots or gonad shots are the shot placements I go for. So I really think everyone should be shooting their handguns out to 100 yards, it really is not that difficult and the point of aim is not as high as most might think.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Just what were those Vegas concert goers supposed to do?

Return fire from 400 yards away at a dark hotel window, at night, with their carry guns??

Do you REALLY think something you can conceal in your pants is going to be effective there??

Sorry folks, sometimes it's best to just take cover and run like hell, not play hero with your LCP or J frame.

 

[psyopspec]

No change, still a G19 with a G17 reload most days.

 

[psyopspec]

All of you that carry and are re-thinking your carry gun should instead re-think your shooting practice. I carry a 1911 95% of the time or a Kel-Tec PMR 30 . I consider myself very proficient at close or long ranges with either hand gun. I make it a point to shoot my hand guns at 25, 50, and 100 yards. My target for all ranges is a paper plate, I figure if I can hit the paper plate at any distance than I can also hit the threat at those distances.
I do not care that the bullet is lobbing or arching at those distances but I guarantee you that if I hit anyone in the gonads with a 45acp or a 22 magnum they will know they got hit. Nowadays this psycho killers have planned everything in advance, so much that they now wear armor vests, so for me headshots or gonad shots are the shot placements I go for. So I really think everyone should be shooting their handguns out to 100 yards, it really is not that difficult and the point of aim is not as high as most might think.

Defeating a mass shooter by confidently castrating them from 100 yards. Now I've truly heard it all.

 

[GBExpat]

Sorry folks, sometimes it's best to just take cover and run like hell, not play hero with your LCP or J frame.

Sometimes? You just outlined my default 40+ year-old plan. If I am caught too close to the BG(s) I will have to engage him with my pistol but if I can extend, I will.

I call it my Skedaddle Plan.

 

[Spats McGee]

No, recent events haven't caused a change in my carry habits. I've historically been a proponent of carrying the biggest gun that one can conceal, and my wardrobe lends itself to bigger guns. That said, I've started to alternate between a G19 + extra mag & a Shield (and I'm about to buy a double-mag pouch for that), with an LCR for "early-Saturday-morning pocket duty."

Here's my conundrum:

• I can't legally carry in my office. My office is in the courthouse, and I haven't gotten the necessary permissions to carry.
  
• That means that whatever I carry has to be left in in the car. I have a hidden handgun safe, connected to my car, for that purpose.
• That safe is too small for a rifle, which I'd keep in the car if I could do so without fear of theft.
• My courthouse is right next door to the jail, meaning that there's an ample supply of vagrants and ne-er-do-wells milling about. No just leaving a rifle in the car for me.

 

[danez71]

Much in life is about risk management.

I don't perceive these recent events to be a major change in risk.

Doing so, imo, means that deep inside you feel the fear mongering Anti's are right and 'something must be done'. You're just choosing to be more armed and they want everyone to be unarmed.

Funny that so many here will argue that mass shootings aren't any more than yesteryear and then choose to pack more heat because of a recent mass shooting.

 

[entropy]

All of you that carry and are re-thinking your carry gun should instead re-think your shooting practice. I carry a 1911 95% of the time or a Kel-Tec PMR 30 . I consider myself very proficient at close or long ranges with either hand gun. I make it a point to shoot my hand guns at 25, 50, and 100 yards. My target for all ranges is a paper plate, I figure if I can hit the paper plate at any distance than I can also hit the threat at those distances.
I do not care that the bullet is lobbing or arching at those distances but I guarantee you that if I hit anyone in the gonads with a 45acp or a 22 magnum they will know they got hit. Nowadays this psycho killers have planned everything in advance, so much that they now wear armor vests, so for me headshots or gonad shots are the shot placements I go for. So I really think everyone should be shooting their handguns out to 100 yards, it really is not that difficult and the point of aim is not as high as most might think.

Gecko45, is that you?

 

[Armored farmer]

No, recent events haven't caused a change in my carry habits. I've historically been a proponent of carrying the biggest gun that one can conceal, and my wardrobe lends itself to bigger guns. That said, I've started to alternate between a G19 + extra mag & a Shield (and I'm about to buy a double-mag pouch for that), with an LCR for "early-Saturday-morning pocket duty."

Here's my conundrum:

• I can't legally carry in my office. My office is in the courthouse, and I haven't gotten the necessary permissions to carry.
  
• That means that whatever I carry has to be left in in the car. I have a hidden handgun safe, connected to my car, for that purpose.
• That safe is too small for a rifle, which I'd keep in the car if I could do so without fear of theft.
• My courthouse is right next door to the jail, meaning that there's an ample supply of vagrants and ne-er-do-wells milling about. No just leaving a rifle in the car for me.

My daughter-in-law has similar conundrum, she is a stunning 110lb legal secretary for the public defender. Also in the courthouse daily. You know her clientele.......she has pepper spray. That's it.

 

[Tirod]

How to assess risk is based on your circumstances. Even if there is an increase in local shootings, if it's not on your side of town or in locations you never frequent, meh.

Large public venues which are more defenseless, however, are being targeted, some by an increase in copycats, but there is a distinct trend with an agenda. I believe it was scheduled before the election and is playing out under different circumstances than anticipated, almost as if the flow of money will be turned off.

BTW, those Saudi princes arrested were funding ISIS and funneled lots of money into the last election. I will leave it there. Expect the number of public shootings to go up in the near future, albeit that it won't be a long running trend. If you decide not to attend because the risks seem to have gone up, then you likely made a good decision regardless. Spend the money on ammo for practicing on the range.

I agree with others, it seems that after every shooting not only the participants but the general public think they should step it up and carry a larger gun afterwards. My question - where does this leave us in another 20 years? Well, you lose, I already have my AR pistol and it's a no brainer to find some kind of holster for it. Fortunately its short enough I won't bang any little kids with it in stores or tangle with displays or doorways. Unlike those who OC'd AKs into Texas restaurants.

Are we going to see that as common in short while? And did you previously think it wasn't real smart, but now, what do you do if that .50 AE Desert Eagle just seems to be inadequate going for two to the groin at a shooter on the 32d floor?

Going for a gallon of milk with a complete plate carrier and loadout isn't going to be the next step, is it?

 

[huntsman]

I changed last summer but not because of current events, I finally accepted the fact that I'm more accurate with a gun bigger than an LCP.

After spending serious time Carrying a G23 I adapted a carry plan which isn't as uncomfortable as I feared it to be.

So now my EDC of 7 years is regulated to occasional house carry.

 

[Varminterror]

Just what were those Vegas concert goers supposed to do?

Return fire from 400 yards away at a dark hotel window, at night, with their carry guns??

Do you REALLY think something you can conceal in your pants is going to be effective there??

I am compelled to explore options, such as carrying more ammunition and keeping a long gun in my vehicles.

No change as far as carry, but I am seriously considering keeping one of my ARs or M1Carbines stashed in the cab of my truck.

I agree with others, it seems that after every shooting not only the participants but the general public think they should step it up and carry a larger gun afterwards. My question - where does this leave us in another 20 years? Well, you lose, I already have my AR pistol and it's a no brainer to find some kind of holster for it. Fortunately its short enough I won't bang any little kids with it in stores or tangle with displays or doorways. Unlike those who OC'd AKs into Texas restaurants.

I gathered some of these comments together not to pick on any particular one of them, but to illustrate two trends:

1) Folks feel their threat profile is evolving to something which a pocket pistol can't effectively manage, or even something any handgun can't effectively manage.

2) Other folks are criticizing their justification, touting absurdisms which cite the SPECIFIC circumstances of these events, like opening fire against a 300yrd distant target in a populated area, or posting armed guards at the door of any church.

To the point of the first trend above, I applaud ANYONE who takes an active interest in evaluating their personal risk profile and taking dynamic steps to more appropriately mitigate their risk, whether it's evaluating their concealed carry weapon choice, reassessing their fire extinguisher needs in their home, or stocking up on ice melt in the fall to be sure their front steps and driveway are ready for the winter season. Varying your carry according to your exposure is logical, just like putting down ice melt in the winter, but not in the summer. Not much risk of slipping on ice when it's 107*F outside here in Kansas, but this time of year, it pays to have a little salt on hand. Similarly, an LCP might handle a would-be carjacker in a grocery store parking lot, but it might not be as we suited for a guy with a rifle laying siege to the same store, or might not be effective against a mama grizzly while on a fishing trip in AK. As I said above - if you vary your exposure, vary your carry.

Also to the first - I comment these folks need to really understand their risk profile, and appropriate mitigation/response modes. First, a personal defender must understand their responsibilities and liabilities, especially in the legal context. As an example, we can all say we'd rather save lives and face a jury of our peers than let a madman run amok in a populous area, but the fact remains, if you run out of a shopping mall, grab a rifle out of your truck, and run back in, you're creating a problem. I don't like it any more than the next guy, but them's the breaks... An irrational or otherwise inappropriate response to a threat can be worse than the threat itself.

And to the second trend, a couple thoughts - any excuse to adopt a more responsible risk management paradigm is a good excuse, and frankly, I wish more folks wouldn't NEED such motivating circumstances, wouldn't need excuses, to become aware of their risk exposure and to start their assessment and mitigation process. I have instructed handgun courses for over 15yrs, and I have asked many students, "why are you buying a handgun?" or "why are you buying an AR-15?" A very common answer is, "well a while back, a specific scary event happened to me..." In other words, these folks became aware of potential threats around them, became more aware of their own personal risk, and became aware of their own need to mitigate risk.

I don't see much value in denigrating others for choosing to better assess their own personal risk profile, and to better equip, train, and practice themselves to reduce probable and plausible risks in their lives. As can be discerned from my threads, I'm not against denigrating those acting foolishly, and I'm happy to chastise folks for neglecting to have an intelligent risk management program in their life, but picking the latest two specific events to criticize those who have finally opened their eyes doesn't seem productive to me.

Another thought to the second trend - realize the first trend is NOT new. We've had multiple instances in LESS recent, but yet not-so-distant history in which specific events have driven evolutions in defensive strategies. Do you not see a similarity between the law enforcement and public response to the Texas Church shooting to those responses following the 1980 Norco & 1986 Miami bank robbery shootouts? Law Enforcement were ignorantly content with 9mm semiautos and 38spcl revolvers, and extremely limited issue of long guns prior to this event, however, when tested, their threat mitigation protocol - aka, the firearms they were issuing - were found lacking. So the trend shifted away from revolvers as a whole, away from the 9mm, and towards adding supplemental long guns (and subsequently necessary training). Civilians followed suit. The 1970 Newhall officer ambush lead to training, firearms selection, and body armour application changes for officers... Look at the trend in passing concealed carry laws around the country post-9/11; folks can't carry on-board, but applications in may & shall issue states increased, and lobby efforts to pass laws in shall not issue states were heavily supported, and wildly successful. Following the succession of Orlando, Newtown, and Aurora shootings, our country armed itself, with millions of NEW firearms owners buying their first...

To both trends, I'd say the following: I'm a fan of the 3 tier risk assessment paradigm promoted by Cunningham, because it lines up directly with risk management practices common in professional application, albeit grossly simplified - Evaluate your personal risk exposure profile based on 3 P's of escalating risk: Possibility Plausibility, Probability. A great number of things are possible, many are plausible, but very few are actually probable. To those folks in trend 1, don't let yourself be lured into wasting time, money, and energy training for every possibility. We can't arm, train, and practice ourselves to be ready for every possibly imaginable threat, so we focus first on those which are probable, and then those which are plausible. To those folks in trend 2, it's irresponsible to cite wildly imaginative, yet POSSIBLE threats as a means to denigrate the folks in trend 1 for preparing themselves for the probable and plausible risks in their lives. Just because no handgun would have suited well in the Las Vegas shooting, the subsequent inspiration for someone to buy their first handgun and seek out an instruction course to help them be better prepared for a robbery at their place of work remains to be positive, not foolish.

 

[Fiv3r]

I heard on a radio news program last night that this particular church had a "check your guns" policy, so people there either locked up their pistols in the cars or left them at the front door, I guess.

Seems like carry capacity is a moot point in this situation. Truly a very sad fish in a barrel situation.